FlyUs
Veteran
- Jul 28, 2004
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BOS is a bigger mainline station than LGA. At least 17 a/c ron, not counting HP. Would be interesting to know how many crews lay over in each city.
Which East Base(s) will get the ax?
- Thread starter flyguy121
- Start date
h34r:
sky high states: And YOU can spare us your "OPINION" without the INSULTS. :down:
LCC_#1
Veteran
When I lived in NYC and was based at LGA, I wanted it to grow, grow, grow. Now that I am gone, I see the reality. The only thing good about a NY base is the chance for someone very junior to hold a line. Besides that, they are constant revolving doors and short staffed and COSTLY as the company TDY's crews there often.
Yes, management isn't going to make decisions based on how much it cost to live in a city like NYC, but they SHOULD and realize that they will never keep crews there. The moment a person is based there, they put in their transfer and get the heck out. The only people who can actually afford to live there are those with the salary of DP himself or those who live on Long Island that have been there all their lives.
LGA should be a satelite of PHL with the shuttle trips a part of the flying out of LGA. The rest of the time should go elsewhere. LGA has little mainline flights compared to BOS, DCA, OR PIT and therefore should be closed. A nice facility is no reason to keep a base or we would had kept BWI, ILM, SYR, SAN, SFO, LAX, GSO, ROA, and ATL openned. And as far as cost, parking ALONE in more a month then charlotte the entire year.
My prediction? Before the integration, there will be two bases...CLT and PHL with MAYBE a satelite or two.
Yes, management isn't going to make decisions based on how much it cost to live in a city like NYC, but they SHOULD and realize that they will never keep crews there. The moment a person is based there, they put in their transfer and get the heck out. The only people who can actually afford to live there are those with the salary of DP himself or those who live on Long Island that have been there all their lives.
LGA should be a satelite of PHL with the shuttle trips a part of the flying out of LGA. The rest of the time should go elsewhere. LGA has little mainline flights compared to BOS, DCA, OR PIT and therefore should be closed. A nice facility is no reason to keep a base or we would had kept BWI, ILM, SYR, SAN, SFO, LAX, GSO, ROA, and ATL openned. And as far as cost, parking ALONE in more a month then charlotte the entire year.
My prediction? Before the integration, there will be two bases...CLT and PHL with MAYBE a satelite or two.
PITbull
Veteran
Reality is Pittsburgh is OVER USAirways. As I said, I believe that BOS and PIT will go as crew bases. What I AM saying is that these two cities will still be serviced by USAirways, but with smaller a/c.
I'm not retired JOKER.
BOS being bigger mainline station than LGA doesn't mean quat. PIT was the biggest base and mainline station for 30 years. World changes.
FlyUs
Veteran
- Jul 28, 2004
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I disagree. The more mainline a/c that overnight in a city determines how many hotel rooms are needed. As we know, it's all about the costs. Relatively cheaper to overnight crews in PIT than BOS, LGA and DCA. Still laughing about BOS becomming an express station...
OP
- Aug 20, 2002
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- Thread Starter
- #21
Wow. I am surprised that there are actually 17 RON a/c in BOS (and without HP). I thought that we served a lot more destinations out of LGA than we used to and that they outnumbered BOS, is this incorrect?
How many destinations are served out of BOS compared to LGA? And how frequently?
I also find it surprising that the general concensus is that LGA will remain open. Other than PIT and possibly BOS, I thought for sure that LGA would be one of the first on the chopping block.
Question for LGA based pilots and f/a's - are you currently required to fly out of JFK and EWR as well? I didn't even know we had trips that originated there. Where do we fly out of JFK and EWR?
I still don't agree about DCA though. Such a large operation and presence in a key city for US...I would be greatly surprised to see US leave DCA as a crew base.
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
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To state the obvious, there are generally two methods of determining crew bases......
The "big" airlines seem to have settled on basing crews where the most flights are - hubs/larger focus cities. With generally larger and more expensive organizational structures for the crew bases (just extrapolating from US East, here) consisting of a base "chief pilot", base "chief" pilot for each equipment type that has crews based there, a "base namager", and an administrative staff, the cost of an additional crew base often exceeds the cost of crew hotel rooms in the cities where most of the airplanes actually spend the night - the outstations. Add the fact that the geographical coverage of the major's route structure pretty much guarantees that a lot of crews will have to spend nights away from their base, thus requiring a fairly high hotel expense anyway.
On the other hand, the "regional" carriers, especially the turboprop operators, generally have crews based where several planes overnight, and thus have many small crew bases. With a very simplified organizational structure, and thus low cost of establishing a crew base, it cheaper to have multiple small bases than pay for hotel rooms (and with the route structure of the "regional" carriers, lots of trips are 1-day with multiple small crew bases, meaning relatively few hotel rooms needed).
Sounds like DP is going to move toward a more centralized base structure for the East operation, but "satillite" bases are a possibility - isn't that what LAS effectively is?
Jim
The "big" airlines seem to have settled on basing crews where the most flights are - hubs/larger focus cities. With generally larger and more expensive organizational structures for the crew bases (just extrapolating from US East, here) consisting of a base "chief pilot", base "chief" pilot for each equipment type that has crews based there, a "base namager", and an administrative staff, the cost of an additional crew base often exceeds the cost of crew hotel rooms in the cities where most of the airplanes actually spend the night - the outstations. Add the fact that the geographical coverage of the major's route structure pretty much guarantees that a lot of crews will have to spend nights away from their base, thus requiring a fairly high hotel expense anyway.
On the other hand, the "regional" carriers, especially the turboprop operators, generally have crews based where several planes overnight, and thus have many small crew bases. With a very simplified organizational structure, and thus low cost of establishing a crew base, it cheaper to have multiple small bases than pay for hotel rooms (and with the route structure of the "regional" carriers, lots of trips are 1-day with multiple small crew bases, meaning relatively few hotel rooms needed).
Sounds like DP is going to move toward a more centralized base structure for the East operation, but "satillite" bases are a possibility - isn't that what LAS effectively is?
Jim
Kev3188
Veteran
When I worked for YV many years ago, no planes RON'ed in the hub (PDX and SEA in this case). All of them stayed in the outstations, and the crews lived in those cities (RDM,EUG,MFR, and PSC).
At least two-thirds of the flying time in LGA is mainline. I find it strange that all your arguments, if valid, never occurred to Delta, American, Continental, and other carriers who have good sized crew bases in NYC and most cover multiple airports. Somehow you are trying to make it seem like it's a bad idea because "we don't do it that way here." Sorry, that mentality got us and US into trouble and needs to be discarded.
USAirways flies out of all three airports. Flights from EWR and JFK are limited right now, but that doesn't mean that economics of scale in light of the merger will preclude expansion at those airports.
US/East crews are based only in LGA and all our flying originates/terminates there. Again, that doesn't mean it can't or won't change. When I was based in DCA years ago, all 737 crew flying was based strictly in DCA. Then, it changed and about 1/3 of the blocks became IAD flying. Who's to say what could happen in the NYC tri-terminal?
Flights from JFK are flown by US/West crews and go to PHX and LAS.
The company is trying to get LGA-PHX and LGA-LAS exemptions to the PANYNJ 1000 mile rule. It has been done before for airlines operating from LGA to its hub airports.
LCC_#1
Veteran
"We don't do it that way here" was YOUR quote, not mine.
I don't know what the hell you're talking about or where you got your ideas. ALL and yes ALL the other airlines have the SAME problems with the high cost of the area. You are fooilishly being defensive of your city. If the company wants to beef up, fine, but they need to offer a stepend to offset the high cost.
Where do you live In NYC? How long have you lived there? Well, I lived there for 12 years and was lucky enough to be in a stabilized apt and only paid $937 a month and THAT was considered cheap. I dare say if you DO live in the NYC area, you have been there a while and if you rent are lucky enough to be stabilized OR you may own a coop or one that was passed down to you. If you DO own, I have a feeling you owned way before the boom of the late 90's.
Who in the hell can afford to LIVE in NYC? Queens might appear cheap to a New Yorker, but to the rest of the country it is over the top. These guys are 8-10 to an apt to survive. Would YOU care to do that? LIKE i said, the only good thing about a NYC base is a chance for a junior person to hold a line.
Had you read instead of mouthing off in defense of the Big Apple, you would read "yes, management isn't going to make a decision on how much it cost to live in a city". Where did you get your old US Airways thinking BS? It is MY opinion that it should at best be a satelite of PHL.
I have been very supportive of this management group and still contend that there will be two crew bases left here on the east coast...CLT and PHL. It's just a freakin prediction. Nobody asked for your attitude. :angry: :down:
LCC_#1
Veteran
Lets see. Any given moment at LGA, there are about 20 props/rjs to 8 mainline jets on a daily bases.
I just counted the daily big jet flights and there are around 50. Your statement needs to be turned around. Any airline employee or passnger can ride by the US terminal and CLEARLY see that express rules LGA.
OP
- Aug 20, 2002
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FlyUs
Veteran
- Jul 28, 2004
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BOS serves PHL, PIT, CLT, LGA, DCA, FLL, BDA(seasonal), AUA(sat & sun), MBJ(sat & sun), PUJ(sat & sun-seasonal), NAS(sat & sun), SJU, PHX, LAS. PHL, LGA & DCA hourly service during the week. We used to have about 20% market share. Now about 15%. BOS also a big maintenance station. The way things go with this company, we'll probably run from B6 now that they're building up here.
OP
- Aug 20, 2002
- 360
- 0
- Thread Starter
- #29
Thanks for the info. In comparison, what are the cities/frequencies served out of LGA? Where can I locate this information myself?
Sorry to be a pain, just trying to make a comparison of Mainline BOS Service versus Mainline LGA.
FlyUs
Veteran
- Jul 28, 2004
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The biggest difference would probably be BOS with hourly mainline service to PHL during the week. Not sure where to locate exact information. Let us know what you find out.
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