You're balking up the wrong tree

[Red Tail Bear]

RTB, why do you guys exaggerate everything? Why are you guys always so worried about what the other guy got? Are you not happy with your chosen career? Are you jealous that the other guy chose a better career than you? You choose your career now live with it or get out.

Why do you guys(scabs) keep wanting to work for less and less instead of more? Why are you willing to contibute to the lowering of wages while the cost of living is steadily on the rise?

It seems to me that you are the one that is jealous. Because you can't seem to stay at a job for more than five years.Why would we spend many years with the same company if we were unhappy with that career choice?

These corporate scumbags are robbing the company and it's employees blind. And that little "smirking chimp" in the white house is standing by, watching it happen and doing nothing about it. And that is NO exaggeration.

 

[Red Tail Bear]

Well the IAM may be like giving it in double doses. at least I dont have to worry about paying their dues anymore.
But liek i asked earlier, what will you do when NWA and their CFO NEil Cohen says, we need PAYCUTS and BENEFITS reductions? trust me when I tell you because it will happen. it happened to us at USAIR not once not twice but three times.

Robbed, I hear you loud and clear.

http://wcco.com/business/local_story_335130352.html

 

[PlayTheOdds]

Why do you guys(scabs) keep wanting to work for less and less instead of more? Why are you willing to contibute to the lowering of wages while the cost of living is steadily on the rise?

Are we working for less? Is an AMT that has been on furlough for the past three years working outside the industry or an MRO making between ten to twenty five dollars an hour with no benefits working for less? It is apparent you have no clue as to what the true economic situation is out there.

Yes the cost of living is on the rise as it has been since the beginning of the Industrial Age. The problem isn't with the company you work for but you and every other American out there that allows it to happen. Real estate is going through the roof but people continue to buy. Automobiles are outrageous but people continue to buy. Furniture is insane but people continue to buy. It is called a free economy and when people get tired of these crazy prices they will stop buying and the prices will then drop.

It seems to me that you are the one that is jealous. Because you can't seem to stay at a job for more than five years.Why would we spend many years with the same company if we were unhappy with that career choice?

Because you are scared. You might not like it but you are comfortable with your union sheltered job. It has nothing to do with the company you work for.

These corporate scumbags are robbing the company and it's employees blind. And that little "smirking chimp" in the white house is standing by, watching it happen and doing nothing about it. And that is NO exaggeration.

I would be willing to bet you are a hard-core democrat and believe in a big socialist government, as where I am not a Democrat and barely a Republican. The government sets the minimum wage standard, it is up to you and the free market for everything after that. Not the "smirking chimp" in the White House.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Fellow posters.

If any of you come across that "POS" SCAB....PTO,
Suggest that he "take a gander" at the new CO F/A contract that they just signed !!!!!!!

Then MABEY, just MABEY he'll ask himself..."What they would have got, if they were'nt UNIONIZED" ?????

NH/BB's

 

[PlayTheOdds]

NH/BB, will you be so kind as to share this contract with us? At least introduce us to the highlights.

 

[twolf]

Red Tail, you must try to understand economics. You can’t keep driving up wages and put the company you work for out of business. No matter how good your union or contract is if the company goes bankrupt you don't get paid any thing. Why would you want to run the company that pays your check out of business?

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

I've been following this board for some time now and thought I'd chime in.

Something a lot of the anti-union crowd seem to underestimate is the marketability of the AMT skill set.

What NWA was able to accomplish in response to the AMFA strike will more than likely never be repeated.

AMTs in the airline industry commanded a high wage for a very good reason, actually several. Just a few are...

The dynamic work enviorment,hazards and physical demands

The off shift/rotation requirements

The knowledge/training requirements for an industry constantly introducing both new procedures and technologies.

Industries outside of aviation pay premiums far in excess of those currently afforded AMTs for these types of considerations.

9-11 put thousands of AMTs(and other airline employees) out of work. This was both sudden and unexpected. Many of these individuals were not prepared for/thinking of a career change. As such many of them stayed with what they knew(aircraft maintenance)at a substantially reduced rate, i.e., OSVs.

As the economy continues to recover, many of these individuals will seek better paying jobs elsewhere, outside the aviation industry.

Just to illustrate, UAL is currently recalling mechanics due to an attrition rate near 10%.

Something more. Both NWA and UAL went to PEBs during their last beneficial contract negotiations. During these proceedings, the wage comparisons with mechanics outside the industry was made. While NWA settled prior to their PEBs final report, UAL did not and the PEB recommended a wage of $35+ an hour avg. It is worthy of note, UALs PEB came AFTER 9-11.

The situation that we see unfolding today was only made possible by those mechanics suddenly/unexpectedly dumped onto the market. Prior to 9-11 the industry was in the midst of an AMT shortage. With headline grabbing decimation of the wages and benefits of this industry, the airlines will be hard pressed to find trained and willing replacements. Those with training and experience,will not remain in lower paying OSV employment indefinitely. Nor will the next generation of technically skilled individuals even consider this industry. They will seek their careers in more rewarding/higher paying fields elsewhere.

 

[robbedagain]

but 911 isnt the true reason for the ruining of the airlines' employees. it is purely the stupid mistakes done and made by top mgmt. All 9-11 did was accelerate the problems

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

but 911 isnt the true reason for the ruining of the airlines' employees. it is purely the stupid mistakes done and made by top mgmt. All 9-11 did was accelerate the problems

True, and in a short time I'd expect to see more of them. NWA has had terrible Labor Relations for well over the past decade. Bankruptcy will only exacerbate that problem.

 

[Opus]

========================================================

"POS" S C A B !!!!
NH/BB's

Once again offering such illumination, 1st an attack on small children with an utterly unrealistic scenario and then resorting to the usual "pos scab" comment. You never fail to display your lack of insight.

 

[Opus]

I've been following this board for some time now and thought I'd chime in.

Something a lot of the anti-union crowd seem to underestimate is the marketability of the AMT skill set.

What NWA was able to accomplish in response to the AMFA strike will more than likely never be repeated.

AMTs in the airline industry commanded a high wage for a very good reason, actually several. Just a few are...

The dynamic work enviorment,hazards and physical demands

The off shift/rotation requirements

The knowledge/training requirements for an industry constantly introducing both new procedures and technologies.

Industries outside of aviation pay premiums far in excess of those currently afforded AMTs for these types of considerations.

9-11 put thousands of AMTs(and other airline employees) out of work. This was both sudden and unexpected. Many of these individuals were not prepared for/thinking of a career change. As such many of them stayed with what they knew(aircraft maintenance)at a substantially reduced rate, i.e., OSVs.

As the economy continues to recover, many of these individuals will seek better paying jobs elsewhere, outside the aviation industry.

Just to illustrate, UAL is currently recalling mechanics due to an attrition rate near 10%.

Something more. Both NWA and UAL went to PEBs during their last beneficial contract negotiations. During these proceedings, the wage comparisons with mechanics outside the industry was made. While NWA settled prior to their PEBs final report, UAL did not and the PEB recommended a wage of $35+ an hour avg. It is worthy of note, UALs PEB came AFTER 9-11.

The situation that we see unfolding today was only made possible by those mechanics suddenly/unexpectedly dumped onto the market. Prior to 9-11 the industry was in the midst of an AMT shortage. With headline grabbing decimation of the wages and benefits of this industry, the airlines will be hard pressed to find trained and willing replacements. Those with training and experience,will not remain in lower paying OSV employment indefinitely. Nor will the next generation of technically skilled individuals even consider this industry. They will seek their careers in more rewarding/higher paying fields elsewhere.

There is alot of truth in what you say; however you have missed afew things. We "anti-union" mechs have a different view of some things. For example, those of us that where previous contractors know very well that the skill set if very transferable, but most of us love what we do. Although a skill set is transferable the employee must be transferable with an acceptable work ethic. I have not seen this in the amfa mechs from NWA, in fact I have heard from 3 different contracts how their work ethic is not transferable. They seem to have acquired over the years a sense of entitlement which makes them rather unsuited for most employers. We, the new NWA mechs, view the situation at NWA as a transitional situation. The company will emerge from bk and when it does raises will take place on merit and not for any other reason, if they dont then all the amfa mechs on the waiting list will get their chance to come back in and NWA will be in the same boat it was before and management knows that. Time will tell. But yes, you are correct the skill set is transferable; however the work ethic must also be transferable.

 

[PlayTheOdds]

As the economy continues to recover, many of these individuals will seek better paying jobs elsewhere, outside the aviation industry.

The situation that we see unfolding today was only made possible by those mechanics suddenly/unexpectedly dumped onto the market. Prior to 9-11 the industry was in the midst of an AMT shortage. With headline grabbing decimation of the wages and benefits of this industry, the airlines will be hard pressed to find trained and willing replacements. Those with training and experience,will not remain in lower paying OSV employment indefinitely. Nor will the next generation of technically skilled individuals even consider this industry. They will seek their careers in more rewarding/higher paying fields elsewhere.

You are exactly correct here, that is what I am banking on. Once NWA has settled its labor disputes and comes out of bankruptcy I foresee the pay going up with the market driving it. Not some fabricated pay driven by some union.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

There is alot of truth in what you say; however you have missed afew things. We "anti-union" mechs have a different view of some things. For example, those of us that where previous contractors know very well that the skill set if very transferable, but most of us love what we do. Although a skill set is transferable the employee must be transferable with an acceptable work ethic. I have not seen this in the amfa mechs from NWA, in fact I have heard from 3 different contracts how their work ethic is not transferable. They seem to have acquired over the years a sense of entitlement which makes them rather unsuited for most employers. We, the new NWA mechs, view the situation at NWA as a transitional situation. The company will emerge from bk and when it does raises will take place on merit and not for any other reason, if they dont then all the amfa mechs on the waiting list will get their chance to come back in and NWA will be in the same boat it was before and management knows that. Time will tell. But yes, you are correct the skill set is transferable; however the work ethic must also be transferable.

Speaking to the first part of your post on work ethics,while this may be your opinion, it is not one I share. I have worked both Union and Non-Union and BOTH have their share of individuals lacking in an acceptable work ethic, neither more so than the other. When I left the aviation industry, my next (non-union) employer never brought up my union affiliation. It seemed their primary concern was that I sever my ties with the airlines(I was on a LOA). As I have kept in contact with several of my co-workers from my previous employer, many who are also seeking outside employment, their experiences echo mine. While this is no indication of employability in a broad sense, neither is your assertions as to unemployability due to union affiliation.

As far as NWA paying on merit, while it is a novel idea I seriously doubt you will ever see it. There are/have been several non-union air carriers, and you'd be hard pressed to find one that payed on merit. Don't misunderstand me, I'd like to see it. I just don't think its possible.

 

[robbedagain]

You are exactly correct here, that is what I am banking on. Once NWA has settled its labor disputes and comes out of bankruptcy I foresee the pay going up with the market driving it. Not some fabricated pay driven by some union.

that can only happen if and only if NWA CAN settle their labor dispute. But as in other posts, these NWA folks know the hell that comes out from their inept mgmt. I highly doubt that you will see higher wages depsite the market going up. once the deal is in, you are locked in. and guess what, you arent in a union therefore you are at the mercy of the mgmt. and I promise you that they wont be as gentle or kind

 

[PlayTheOdds]

that can only happen if and only if NWA CAN settle their labor dispute. But as in other posts, these NWA folks know the hell that comes out from their inept mgmt. I highly doubt that you will see higher wages depsite the market going up. once the deal is in, you are locked in. and guess what, you arent in a union therefore you are at the mercy of the mgmt. and I promise you that they wont be as gentle or kind

Locked in? I think not, I am in total control of my employment I decide whether I stay or not, I decide if my pay is adequate, I decide if my time off and benefits suit me. If I do not like what NWA has to offer I will quit. It is as simple as that. If NWA wishes to keep me they will meet my request. Why do you guys have such a hard time with that?