2015 Fleet Service thread

[Rogallo]

Throw the bum out! Oh wait, we can't!
 
We've got a guy running the show from a union that never showed proper interest in representing us?
What a crock!
 
Had enough yet?
 
Sorry I posted in the Fleet thread.

 

[Realityck]

i supported the Association but it seems as if its taking unnecessary time risk. Obviously they dont know what they are doing but they could luck out a bit. The jury is still out. They say they are going to get us a leading industry contract. Time will tell.

 
 
 
The TWU & IAM leadership is doing exactly what they should be doing by identifying and developing common language where it conflicts in the current agreements. The last thing we need is to start negotiating and get involved in internal disagreements which should have been resolved beforehand, while management laughs all the way to the bank as they did with the USAir & America West Pilot Groups.
 
It’s frustrating and time consuming, but can’t be avoided if we intend to get the contract we deserve. Don’t let the frustrated AMFA promoters distract you from what needs to be done. The only thing that this management will recognize and negotiate legitimately with is a united membership. It’s up to us to make that happen. 

 

[WeAAsles]

Meanwhile the dues keep rolling in...so to the ASS does it really matter?

Let's explain the dues for you. TWU is 2 times the hourly rate. So for Fleet looking at a $5.00 per hour increase, that's an extra $10.00 from every topped out clerk. Now try to do the math for every member that the TWU represents at AA. That's quite a bit of money right?

From what I understand about the IAM the dues is set by a committee for each location? 5% of the dues stays with the district and 95% goes to the National? (Something like that, 700 can explain better) So don't you think when more money begins coming in that there will be a vote to raise the dues in every location?

So the premise you're trying to sell that the Association is intent on stalling because they are already being paid just doesn't hold any water actually.

 

[WeAAsles]

At every town hall, Parker was asked about negotiations.
The answer was always the same.
The company is ready to negotiate tomorrow.
They are waiting for the Association to tell them when.
The hold up is the Association, more specifically, Sito Pantoja.
Throw him an email and see what you get for an answer.

Parker is management and if you think management doesn't lie to its workers then you haven't been in this industry long enough. I can't (and neither can anyone else) prove for a fact that he is? But from the indicators I've seen I really don't believe they were as prepared as they claim? I "think" getting the PSA cutover done and agreeing to a TA with the agents first (First customer point of contact) was something they needed to accomplish first. Now the concentration will begin to fall to us. The company has been very precise in taking things one step at a time and honestly I don't think we were at the top of that priority list only because we don't have direct day to day interactions with the passengers (customers)

But if Sito has been a holdup please explain why? Yes I know that we were held up last month and the one before because the IAM had to attend their Convention and then the swearing in of new officers, particularly the appointing of Mike Klemm to District 141 President.

Do you foresee any other holdups coming from the IAM side? Any other meetings that need to be attended?

 

[WeAAsles]

The TWU & IAM leadership is doing exactly what they should be doing by identifying and developing common language where it conflicts in the current agreements. The last thing we need is to start negotiating and get involved in internal disagreements which should have been resolved beforehand, while management laughs all the way to the bank as they did with the USAir & America West Pilot Groups.
 
It’s frustrating and time consuming, but can’t be avoided if we intend to get the contract we deserve. Don’t let the frustrated AMFA promoters distract you from what needs to be done. The only thing that this management will recognize and negotiate legitimately with is a united membership. It’s up to us to make that happen.

Thank you Realityck.

 

[AANOTOK]

 
 
 
The TWU & IAM leadership is doing exactly what they should be doing by identifying and developing common language where it conflicts in the current agreements. The last thing we need is to start negotiating and get involved in internal disagreements which should have been resolved beforehand, while management laughs all the way to the bank as they did with the USAir & America West Pilot Groups.
 
It’s frustrating and time consuming, but can’t be avoided if we intend to get the contract we deserve. Don’t let the frustrated AMFA promoters distract you from what needs to be done. The only thing that this management will recognize and negotiate legitimately with is a united membership. It’s up to us to make that happen. 

First off, you have never been right on anything...only a suck up. Secondly, greatly appreciated if you wouldn't come and pollute the Fleet thread by your pro/anti AMFA comments...how about leaving your trash over in the AMT thread.

 

[Traymark]

The TWU & IAM leadership is doing exactly what they should be doing by identifying and developing common language where it conflicts in the current agreements. The last thing we need is to start negotiating and get involved in internal disagreements which should have been resolved beforehand, while management laughs all the way to the bank as they did with the USAir & America West Pilot Groups.
 
It’s frustrating and time consuming, but can’t be avoided if we intend to get the contract we deserve. Don’t let the frustrated AMFA promoters distract you from what needs to be done. The only thing that this management will recognize and negotiate legitimately with is a united membership. It’s up to us to make that happen.

I'm not an AMFA promoter. You won't find a single reference to them in any of my posts.
I've always supported the TWU.
As to your point about a united membership, the IAM and TWU kind of threw that out the window when they denied us a vote on our representation.

Now that they have the responsibility , I've not seen anything showing me I'm getting what I'm paying for. Can't get anyone of consequence to answer an email with questions that we all have. So tell me again, what is it I should be uniting behind?

I have no idea what direction my representation is moving , because they won't tell us.
You don't even have to be good at math to figure out how much money they are costing us daily.
Not meeting until next month is unacceptable and I can only imagine the howling from the IAM/TWU folks if this was some newly elected union doing this right now while there is money on the table for its members.

 

[dfw gen]

First off, you have never been right on anything...only a suck up. Secondly, greatly appreciated if you wouldn't come and pollute the Fleet thread by your pro/anti AMFA comments...how about leaving your trash over in the AMT thread.

i agree with you but we don't want him either

 

[AANOTOK]

i agree with you but we don't want him either

Maybe these "giddy" Ass folks can start their on thread and Reality can be the leader...

 

[WeAAsles]

First off, you have never been right on anything...only a suck up. Secondly, greatly appreciated if you wouldn't come and pollute the Fleet thread by your pro/anti AMFA comments...how about leaving your trash over in the AMT thread.

AANOTOK what is it you didn't like in the guy's comments? Alright maybe I would have left out the AMFA part on a Fleet thread. But he was responding to Tim Nelson who is going to be running for District 141 President and all of a sudden when he came to that decision did a complete 360 against things he has been saying for months now on agreeing with how the Association has been moving ahead.

If you had been on the US page a few years back you would have seen his shenanigans back then in bad mouthing anyone he could in the hopes of propelling his "personal" campaign.

But back on topic. Yes we can all agree that they should have done the reconciliation months ago. BUT I still 100% believe if they had done that we would have been LOCKED into the $26.54 base rate instead of staring at at least $29,27 like we are today. And again maybe even more if UAL raises the bar. 

By hook or crook the stalls have absolutely played to being a better advantage (financially) in our favor. Why do we continue to fight against that? Are we really that desperate for cash?

Another thing Realityck said. Would you rather they had not done the process of putting things together so they can maybe have a better mutual agreement when they sit across from the company? Would you rather our negotiators just went in and played Johnny on the spot to anything the company might throw at them? Or would you prefer they be unified and maybe the process will go a lot smoother with the people who hold the checkbook?

 

[WeAAsles]

Maybe these "giddy" Ass folks can start their on thread and Reality can be the leader...

If I'm accused of a crime and have my liberties on the line in court I'm not going to make my Lawyers job harder. For all intent and purpose whether we wanted them or not. Whether we would have preferred one Union over another. Whether it would have been better in some people's minds for the two to have duked it out and to the winner go the spoils. It doesn't mean crap. The TWU/IAM Association, Presidents, AGC's, Reps, Leaders and their payed Lawyers and Economists are going to be the one's sitting across from the company. They're going to be the one's to bring us back something that we will have to decide to accept or not. 

So maybe I should change my tune and start giving them the middle finger like so many other people continue to want to do?

Yea I'm sure that really helps things.

 

[dfw gen]

AANOTOK what is it you didn't like in the guy's comments? Alright maybe I would have left out the AMFA part on a Fleet thread. But he was responding to Tim Nelson who is going to be running for District 141 President and all of a sudden when he came to that decision did a complete 360 against things he has been saying for months now on agreeing with how the Association has been moving ahead.

If you had been on the US page a few years back you would have seen his shenanigans back then in bad mouthing anyone he could in the hopes of propelling his "personal" campaign.

But back on topic. Yes we can all agree that they should have done the reconciliation months ago. BUT I still 100% believe if they had done that we would have been LOCKED into the $26.54 base rate instead of staring at at least $29,27 like we are today. And again maybe even more if UAL raises the bar. 

By hook or crook the stalls have absolutely played to being a better advantage (financially) in our favor. Why do we continue to fight against that? Are we really that desperate for cash?

Another thing Realityck said. Would you rather they had not done the process of putting things together so they can maybe have a better mutual agreement when they sit across from the company? Would you rather our negotiators just went in and played Johnny on the spot to anything the company might throw at them? Or would you prefer they be unified and maybe the process will go a lot smoother with the people who hold the checkbook?

Hate to tell you but your not at $29.00 or $26.00 an hour today.

 

[AANOTOK]

Has nothing to do with cash W. Has to do with being prepared. They were not. Has to do with transparency. They are not.
Has to do with me, a pays doing member having a voice in representation. I did not. I could go on, but dead horses can only be beat until their flat...and if I hear one more time this lack of preparedness resulted in a better deal...I think I will barf. No, there is no better deal yet and with each passing day, your better deal lacks the spending power it had the day before. By the time we get a deal, the money we may back into because of their lack of urgency, may only equal (inflation) what we would of been paid months ago.
 
As for Reality, he is a smarta$$ who tried lecturing me in the past in a rather idiotic demeaning way. Then I had to correct him and he can't even admit he was wrong, just spins it differently. Yes, it's both on a personal and professional level.

 

[WeAAsles]

Has nothing to do with cash W. Has to do with being prepared. They were not. Has to do with transparency. They are not.
Has to do with me, a pays doing member having a voice in representation. I did not. I could go on, but dead horses can only be beat until their flat...and if I hear one more time this lack of preparedness resulted in a better deal...I think I will barf. No, there is no better deal yet and with each passing day, your better deal lacks the spending power it had the day before. By the time we get a deal, the money we may back into because of their lack of urgency, may only equal (inflation) what we would of been paid months ago.
 
As for Reality, he is a smarta$$ who tried lecturing me in the past in a rather idiotic demeaning way. Then I had to correct him and he can't even admit he was wrong, just spins it differently. Yes, it's both on a personal and professional level.

I really don't want to make you barf but it's the truth. By some rough calculations if we had had a deal in January we have lost financially about $6000.00 so far. But looking at a 5 year deal from the difference between $26 and $29 we're looking at a loss of $31,000. Again not counting compounded yearly raises, OT, CS worked, and contributions to our 401k.

Let's say that I put every dime of that increase with all the extra's into my 401k at least for the next 5 years and whatever might be built on for the rest of my projected 12 years before I retire. If you add up all the add on's and the market performs well for all I know that nest egg can grow into a substantial extra amount. Let's say even at a basic $31,000 + $31,000 (5 more years) $10,000 more last 2 years. We're looking at over $70,000 more put into my 401k. Compounding everything else could put that at $100,000?

So so far I've lost $6000,00 in exchange for a possible $100,000 in career value.

That's how I'm looking at things. 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂  

 

[WeAAsles]

Has nothing to do with cash W. Has to do with being prepared. They were not. Has to do with transparency. They are not.

They have been putting out updates. They just haven't put out what they are talking about or working on. If you're going to sit in a room and play poker against someone (The Company) should they sit with their hand facing the other side so they know how to bet?

That's really what this is all about you know. Frustrating I'll admit though.
 

As for Reality, he is a smarta$$ who tried lecturing me in the past in a rather idiotic demeaning way. Then I had to correct him and he can't even admit he was wrong, just spins it differently. Yes, it's both on a personal and professional level.

Ok I can understand not liking someone for the way they treated you but I also have to admit that most of the time I like very much the way the guy thinks.