2015 Fleet Service thread

[AANOTOK]

Because they designed the Association to be equal partners. If the seniority integration groups are like our negotiators you have 6 on one side and 6 on the other. If neither of the 6 on the two sides want to move from their positions then the easiest solution should apply.

You flip a coin and move on. Otherwise any time they get in a jam they can put that jam out for a vote from the members and we really will be waiting a very long time to get the JCBA done.

You make my point W. Again, the proper way in a union is to vote and the majority wins. There is no "coin" flip. That is ridiculous. If 3000 want it one way and 200 want the other and you flip? C'mon W, you are letting this Association cloud your way of thinking. And you are correct, putting it out for a vote (the union way) may take a long time, but that's what you get with the Association.

 

[Tim Nelson]

You make my point W. Again, the proper way in a union is to vote and the majority wins. There is no "coin" flip. That is ridiculous. If 3000 want it one way and 200 want the other and you flip? C'mon W, you are letting this Association cloud your way of thinking. And you are correct, putting it out for a vote (the union way) may take a long time, but that's what you get with the Association.

Are there any better ideas? Otherwise this is a continual game of tic tac toe and nobody wins. They cant even agree on what the arbitration clause truly means, there was no allowance for neutral mediation fascilitation and if this drags on for another 9 months then Sito gets the boot and Lombardo takes charge for two years, my concern is that as it gets closer for the twu to take over, the twu may have incentive to start dragging its feet.

regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,
 
I'll tell you one section that struck me as a curious difference.  As we know, under the IAM contact furloughed agents have 4 years of recall rights with no loss of seniority during that time.  Simple example if a furloughed agent has 10 years, does not accept a transfer, called-back after 2 years the agent will have 12 years seniority.  However, under the TWU contract while there are 10 years of recall rights, after 90 days (or 60 days?) the agent begins to lose seniority on a day for day basis.  So using the example above, after 2 years, the agent would have been REDUCED their seniority to 8 years, 3 months!
 
While 10 years of recall rights would be pretty amazing in its own right, losing years of seniority might force many to  move in order to assure some quality of life issues to bid the preferred schedule especially if commuting.  Although I do wonder if one is losing seniority while on furlough, does that make other furloughed agents who transeferred move ahead of the first agent in terms of recall rights to the station?  Would a 9-year agent who transferred move ahead of a 10-year agent who didn't transfer after 2 years in recall rights if it is based upon some adjusted seniority?

excellent points Jester.

Lets hope the pettyness of both unions dies out and that real negotiations can be scheduled then concluded in a timely way.
regards,

 

[ograc]

Maybe you have it backwards. I think we need to "load" the reps of the Association in a room and "lock" the door until something is accomplished. This is seriously one of the most pathetic things I have witnessed in my years in the industry.

 
The grunts are told to "lock and load" for an ensuing battle. This is based on Leadership direction and action. The leadership we must rely on. This grunt will standby and be patient. If, or when, our NC gives the order and the green light to "lock and load" we must be prepared to act on a united front. The waiting is frustrating for many along with myself, however, we, as a collective bargaining unit, will have one shot at this. Let's take the time and exhibit the patience to get it right. In the meantime; there are justified and reasonable time expectations from the members. Expectations that must be duly noted by the IAM Leadership and the Association NC.   
 

 

[AANOTOK]

Are there any better ideas? Otherwise this is a continual game of tic tac toe and nobody wins. They cant even agree on what the arbitration clause truly means, there was no allowance for neutral mediation fascilitation and if this drags on for another 9 months then Sito gets the boot and Lombardo takes charge for two years, my concern is that as it gets closer for the twu to take over, the twu may have incentive to start dragging its feet.

regards,

So because the Ass just slid right in there Tim, let's just not the members have a voice at all. You don't freaking flip a coin over something as important as this...Really? Yes, there is a better idea, a damn vote by the members, Tim. I don't care how long it takes. Hey, how about this, so we can have a contract next week, let's just let the Ass decide and not have a vote at all, you know, kind of like they came into existence. This crap only seems to be getting worse. Now we have some advocating a coin flip...WOW!

 

[AANOTOK]

 
The grunts are told to "lock and load" for an ensuing battle. This is based on Leadership direction and action. The leadership we must rely on. This grunt will standby and be patient. If, or when, our NC gives the order and the green light to "lock and load" we must be prepared to act on a united front. The waiting is frustrating for many along with myself, however, we, as a collective bargaining unit, will have one shot at this. Let's take the time and exhibit the patience to get it right. In the meantime; there are justified and reasonable time expectations from the members. Expectations that must be duly noted by the IAM Leadership and the Association NC.   
 

Along with "reasonable time expectations", the members also deserve "clarity" in these updates!

 

[Talos]

You make my point W. Again, the proper way in a union is to vote and the majority wins. There is no "coin" flip. That is ridiculous. If 3000 want it one way and 200 want the other and you flip? C'mon W, you are letting this Association cloud your way of thinking. And you are correct, putting it out for a vote (the union way) may take a long time, but that's what you get with the Association.

The entire arrangement leaves lots of areas for disagreement. How we were not allowed to vote on this is a big question for me. I was told the head of the AFL-CIO told the 2 unions to do it this way. Some stations TWU, some IAM. What if someone transfers to the other in the future. Maybe it will work itself out but I imagine both work groups are pretty irate at the growing large financial loss and strange position they are in with regards to the association.

 

[Albert]

The entire arrangement leaves lots of areas for disagreement. How we were not allowed to vote on this is a big question for me. I was told the head of the AFL-CIO told the 2 unions to do it this way. Some stations TWU, some IAM. What if someone transfers to the other in the future. Maybe it will work itself out but I imagine both work groups are pretty irate at the growing large financial loss and strange position they are in with regards to the association.

I dont think there will be any problem transferring to another station. Of course we have to start negotiating first. The ASS updates are a total insult they must really think their members are morons

 

[Tim Nelson]

The grunts are told to "lock and load" for an ensuing battle. This is based on Leadership direction and action. The leadership we must rely on. This grunt will standby and be patient. If, or when, our NC gives the order and the green light to "lock and load" we must be prepared to act on a united front. The waiting is frustrating for many along with myself, however, we, as a collective bargaining unit, will have one shot at this. Let's take the time and exhibit the patience to get it right. In the meantime; there are justified and reasonable time expectations from the members. Expectations that must be duly noted by the IAM Leadership and the Association NC.

+1

 

[Tim Nelson]

So because the Ass just slid right in there Tim, let's just not the members have a voice at all. You don't freaking flip a coin over something as important as this...Really? Yes, there is a better idea, a damn vote by the members, Tim. I don't care how long it takes. Hey, how about this, so we can have a contract next week, let's just let the Ass decide and not have a vote at all, you know, kind of like they came into existence. This crap only seems to be getting worse. Now we have some advocating a coin flip...WOW!

i was talking about reality. The best it got for members was filling out staged surveys.everything centers on the dirty dozen in which case lines have been drawn. So unless someone cuts a private deal to have someone break ranks, a coin flip would break the ice. The only other possibility is a beer chug. My bet would be on the iam reps if they agreed to a beer chug.

regards,

 

[Albert]

 
The grunts are told to "lock and load" for an ensuing battle. This is based on Leadership direction and action. The leadership we must rely on. This grunt will standby and be patient. If, or when, our NC gives the order and the green light to "lock and load" we must be prepared to act on a united front. The waiting is frustrating for many along with myself, however, we, as a collective bargaining unit, will have one shot at this. Let's take the time and exhibit the patience to get it right. In the meantime; there are justified and reasonable time expectations from the members. Expectations that must be duly noted by the IAM Leadership and the Association NC.   
 

They have already exceeded reasonable time expectations to get to the table. Once they get to the table then we have to be patient and hold out for the best contract we can

 

[Tim Nelson]

They have already exceeded reasonable time expectations to get to the table. Once they get to the table then we have to be patient and hold out for the best contract we can

Bro, not in any case will the iam sign a TA prior to late June.

regards,

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

Oh and to add insult to injury here at LGA LUS has more flights than LAA yet because of  LAA business model they have a lot more people therefore we will be TWU

You're going TWU because of the NY one station complex which includes that other airport at the end of the Van Wyck.You know the one with 600+ FSC's and considerably more flights than LUS has at LGA.

 

[Talos]

Bro, not in any case will the iam sign a TA prior to late June.

regards,

That's quite some time to wait. If the company jerks us around that's one thing, but if the IAM and TWU can't figure a deal then that's negligence to the members. Windows open and close and though things are great right now for airlines one foul incident can change that.Most of the people I work around would be way past angry if that kind of delay happens. What a bad dream that could become reality.

 

[700UW]

Let them do their work. Its so easy for all of you to throw stones when you all have zero experience in combining two CBAs into one.

Didn't and haven't seen any of you step up.

Armchair negotiators that you all are.