2015 Fleet Service thread

[Albert]

Thanks, This is a good development. Dec 1 is encouraging.

regards,

These town halls are something I cant believe a man would stand up in front of 100 people and say give us the money now we will negotiate the rest later. Guess he didnt read "Negotiations for Dummies. its embarrassing

 

[ograc]

These town halls are something I cant believe a man would stand up in front of 100 people and say give us the money now we will negotiate the rest later. Guess he didnt read "Negotiations for Dummies. its embarrassing

 
Another chapter in negotiations for dummies is posting on social media that one is willing to take the money and run. They look for the mindset of the bargaining group. They look for the cracks in solidarity and carefully formulate their contract proposals. Of course; these proposals benefit them and not the bargaining group's membership. If a lack of solidarity is being demonstrated at town hall meetings, social forums and work place break rooms it erodes the leverage the NC has at the table. We are entering into contract negotiations. Solidarity is paramount. I would suggest all members keep this in mind before attending town hall meetings, going on social forums or airing self centered opinions in break rooms on company property. Let's get this right! Fall in! Lock and Load! 
 

 

[Albert]

 
Another chapter in negotiations for dummies is posting on social media that one is willing to take the money and run. They look for the mindset of the bargaining group. They look for the cracks in solidarity and carefully formulate their contract proposals. Of course; these proposals benefit them and not the bargaining group's membership. If a lack of solidarity is being demonstrated at town hall meetings, social forums and work place break rooms it erodes the leverage the NC has at the table. We are entering into contract negotiations. Solidarity is paramount. I would suggest all members keep this in mind before attending town hall meetings, going on social forums or airing self centered opinions in break rooms on company property. Let's get this right! Fall in! Lock and Load! 
 

The union and the company both know what it will take to get a contract  to pass it doesnt really matter what an indivual's opinion is. Take scope LUS has 1 flight a day LAA has 14 or so a day if the company and union come back with 8 a day  it will pass. Why would AA (who are the majority) vote no. Jerry Glass knows all the tricks you are not going to out smart him 

 

[ograc]

The union and the company both know what it will take to get a contract  to pass it doesnt really matter what an indivual's opinion is. Take scope LUS has 1 flight a day LAA has 14 or so a day if the company and union come back with 8 a day  it will pass. Why would AA (who are the majority) vote no. Jerry Glass knows all the tricks you are not going to out smart him 

How about if Jerry opens with 20 a day with lots of money in compensation up front? How about if Jerry wants unlimited part time? How about if Jerry wants increased contributions to medical insurance? How about if Jerry wants to outsource all remaining catering jobs in the existing system? How about if Jerry wants existing TWU OT cash bypass language? I disagree with your assessment that it doesn't matter what an individual's opinion is because, ultimately every individual (member) votes yes or no to a TA.  If the union agrees to a TA and it gets voted down by the membership then every individual's opinion does, in fact, matter. The union can reach a TA but it is always up to the members, individually, to ratify or reject the TA. If a TA is rejected; it sends a message to the company the terms are not acceptable to the membership. Kind of puts the NC, the union and the company in an embarrassing light. Consequently though, it sends both parties back to the table. Every members' opinion and vote matters. I'm getting a little tired of hearing what the company wants. How about what we want? Jerry would have to adapt and improvise. He puts his pants on every morning just like the rest of us!    

 

 

[lax]

How about if Jerry opens with 20 a day with lots of money in compensation up front? How about if Jerry wants unlimited part time? How about if Jerry wants increased contributions to medical insurance? How about if Jerry wants to outsource all remaining catering jobs in the existing system? How about if Jerry wants existing TWU OT cash bypass language? I disagree with your assessment that it doesn't matter what an individual's opinion is because, ultimately every individual (member) votes yes or no to a TA.  If the union agrees to a TA and it gets voted down by the membership then every individual's opinion does, in fact, matter. The union can reach a TA but it is always up to the members, individually, to ratify or reject the TA. If a TA is rejected; it sends a message to the company the terms are not acceptable to the membership. Kind of puts the NC, the union and the company in an embarrassing light. Consequently though, it sends both parties back to the table. Every members' opinion and vote matters. I'm getting a little tired of hearing what the company wants. How about what we want? Jerry would have to adapt and improvise. He puts his pants on every morning just like the rest of us!    
 

I agree with most of your post, however I think what Al is saying is that if the proposal is a little more than what AA guys already have with a fair amount of cash that the contract will pass because of the large disparity in numbers.  Regrettably, I agree with him.  As far as solidarity it appears almost non-existent in my view.  Not to mention the illegitimate way the Association came into existence doesn't make for fertile ground to improve morale, trust or solidarity.  check out their Facebook page if you doubt what i'm saying.

 

[700UW]

Both PMUS and PMAA make the same in pay.

 

[Albert]

How about if Jerry opens with 20 a day with lots of money in compensation up front? How about if Jerry wants unlimited part time? How about if Jerry wants increased contributions to medical insurance? How about if Jerry wants to outsource all remaining catering jobs in the existing system? How about if Jerry wants existing TWU OT cash bypass language? I disagree with your assessment that it doesn't matter what an individual's opinion is because, ultimately every individual (member) votes yes or no to a TA.  If the union agrees to a TA and it gets voted down by the membership then every individual's opinion does, in fact, matter. The union can reach a TA but it is always up to the members, individually, to ratify or reject the TA. If a TA is rejected; it sends a message to the company the terms are not acceptable to the membership. Kind of puts the NC, the union and the company in an embarrassing light. Consequently though, it sends both parties back to the table. Every members' opinion and vote matters. I'm getting a little tired of hearing what the company wants. How about what we want? Jerry would have to adapt and improvise. He puts his pants on every morning just like the rest of us!    
 

That would be something after all of this B/S the negotiators coming back with a contract that doesnt pass. what I was trying to say on previous post You were saying keep your opinions off social media  Dont  give the company ammo I say it doesnt matter. I was not saying you vote doesnt count that would be ridiculous

 

[ograc]

That would be something after all of this B/S the negotiators coming back with a contract that doesnt pass. what I was trying to say on previous post You were saying keep your opinions off social media  Dont  give the company ammo I say it doesnt matter. I was not saying you vote doesnt count that would be ridiculous

 
many want to blame the TWU or the IAM for agreeing to such concessionary contracts. It is important to note both unions were forced into negotiating agreements under bankruptcy protection laws that benefit the company. That being said... it is equally important to note the members, through the ratification process, agreed to and subsequently passed the said agreements. Now we have the Association negotiating contracts for both Fleet and MTC under different circumstances. A merged airline making and projected to make billions in profits. IMO... a solidified membership ultimately decides the fate of a TA. Telegraphing a lack of solidarity to the company will result in history repeating itself (i.e. the recent UA agreement) regarding future JCBA talks for both groups at AA. The NC needs to get it right! Likewise, the membership needs to do the same. In my years I have seen too many contracts passed by effectively dividing the membership by numbers and issues. One thing is certain going into JCBA talks, without solidarity, don't expect much. Giving the company indications of self centered opinions and a lack of solidarity among the membership does matter. It is the crack in the wall the company is looking for and will exploit. It does matter.
 

 

[Albert]

 
many want to blame the TWU or the IAM for agreeing to such concessionary contracts. It is important to note both unions were forced into negotiating agreements under bankruptcy protection laws that benefit the company. That being said... it is equally important to note the members, through the ratification process, agreed to and subsequently passed the said agreements. Now we have the Association negotiating contracts for both Fleet and MTC under different circumstances. A merged airline making and projected to make billions in profits. IMO... a solidified membership ultimately decides the fate of a TA. Telegraphing a lack of solidarity to the company will result in history repeating itself (i.e. the recent UA agreement) regarding future JCBA talks for both groups at AA. The NC needs to get it right! Likewise, the membership needs to do the same. In my years I have seen too many contracts passed by effectively dividing the membership by numbers and issues. One thing is certain going into JCBA talks, without solidarity, don't expect much. Giving the company indications of self centered opinions and a lack of solidarity among the membership does matter. It is the crack in the wall the company is looking for and will exploit. It does matter.
 

Ive seen my share of contracts at US, in fact all of them and I disagree the company already knows what they are going to give us. With fleet service you already know the salary so I dont think there will be any huge suprises. We just have to get as much as we can I dont think the company will hold up integration for say  40 agents around the system who dump lavs or 55 cents differential things like that

 

[700UW]

You can tell you have never been in negotiations, it's not just the company saying here you go.

So how many contracts have you negotiated for fleet at PMUS?

Clueless

 

[Albert]

You can tell you have never been in negotiations, it's not just the company saying here you go.

So how many contracts have you negotiated for fleet at PMUS?

Clueless

In the end it is the company saying here you go. They already know how far they will go. The only contracts you negotiated were concessionary so id keep my hole shut if I were you

 

[700UW]

Wrong I negotiated for the IAM CO FAs.

So see your clueless and if you knew anything I had a hand in the great CBA we got in 99 for maintenance.

 

[robbedagain]

Al, while i never been in negotiations myself the 99 agreement was far superior for fleet esp compared to the ch 11 deals and our 2014 one is far better than the previous one now that we are one airline id say use the 2014 deal and improve everything enhance scope wages benefits etc its time to stop looking in the past but to move forward

 

[bob@las-AA]

Ive seen my share of contracts at US, in fact all of them and I disagree the company already knows what they are going to give us. With fleet service you already know the salary so I dont think there will be any huge suprises. We just have to get as much as we can I dont think the company will hold up integration for say  40 agents around the system who dump lavs or 55 cents differential things like that

 
 

In the end it is the company saying here you go. They already know how far they will go. The only contracts you negotiated were concessionary so id keep my hole shut if I were you

 
You seem to contradict yourself.

 

[AANOTOK]

If you put his response up to the comment he was referring to bob, I think you can figure out he is saying "I disagree, the company already knows what they are gonna give us".