2015 Pilot Discussion.

[CactusPilot1]

And the sky is blue. So what?

There has never been any legal agreement to use the Nic. Never, or it would have been used. That's a fact unaffected by all the whining facts you quoted (from an ignorant LAA pilot who has yet to reveal the cause for his rabid obsession with something that is none of his business).

It certainly is not Usapa's business. Decertified.

FACT: a contract was required to implement the accepted list. No contract was attained... Thus no implementation.

Leave it to a Usapian not to want a contract. Kirby loves Uscabs.

 

[Claxon]

It certainly is not Usapa's business. Decertified.

Leave it to a Usapian not to want a contract. Kirby loves Uscabs.

Case 2:08-cv-01633-NVW Document 512 Filed 06/10/2009 Page 6 of 14

With respect to wages, the Company’s proposal – the Kirby Proposal – is still on the table in current negotiations (Hemenway Trial Tr. 862:2-11), and Plaintiffs’ witness, Russell Payne, testified that he recalled that West MEC Chairman McIlvenna (and the East MEC chairman) considered the Kirby Proposal for pay to be “woefully inadequate.” (Tr. 644:15-19).

Plaintiffs dispute this fact on the grounds that this evidence is inadmissible hearsay. (Doc. # 508 ¶ 21). However, Plaintiffs did not make a hearsay objection, or any objection, when Mr. Payne was asked about his recollection of the “woefully inadequate” comment. Further, Plaintiffs’ objection now (that “[t]his cannot be used to prove the truth of the matter asserted – that, in fact, the Kirby proposal was inadequate,” Doc. # 508 ¶ 21) has no merit in any event because Defendant was not
trying to prove that the Kirby Proposal was in fact inadequate but rather that the West MEC chairman regarded the proposal as inadequate. Based on the fact that the East and West MEC’s were not prepared to accept the Kirby Proposal, Mr. Payne agreed that “we can’t sit here and prognosticate when it would have been TA’d.” (Tr. 644:23-25). And when asked, “[t]herefore we can’t prognosticate as to when a final contract altogether would have been TA’d, correct?” Mr. Payne responded, “Not with any certainty, no.” (Tr. 645:1-3).

 

[CactusPilot1]

Case 2:08-cv-01633-NVW Document 512 Filed 06/10/2009 Page 6 of 14
With respect to wages, the Companys proposal the Kirby Proposal is still on the table in current negotiations (Hemenway Trial Tr. 862:2-11), and Plaintiffs witness, Russell Payne, testified that he recalled that West MEC Chairman McIlvenna (and the East MEC chairman) considered the Kirby Proposal for pay to be woefully inadequate. (Tr. 644:15-19).
Plaintiffs dispute this fact on the grounds that this evidence is inadmissible hearsay. (Doc. # 508 ¶ 21). However, Plaintiffs did not make a hearsay objection, or any objection, when Mr. Payne was asked about his recollection of the woefully inadequate comment. Further, Plaintiffs objection now (that [t]his cannot be used to prove the truth of the matter asserted that, in fact, the Kirby proposal was inadequate, Doc. # 508 ¶ 21) has no merit in any event because Defendant was not
trying to prove that the Kirby Proposal was in fact inadequate but rather that the West MEC chairman regarded the proposal as inadequate. Based on the fact that the East and West MECs were not prepared to accept the Kirby Proposal, Mr. Payne agreed that we cant sit here and prognosticate when it would have been TAd. (Tr. 644:23-25). And when asked, [t]herefore we cant prognosticate as to when a final contract altogether would have been TAd, correct? Mr. Payne responded, Not with any certainty, no. (Tr. 645:1-3).

The bottom line. Getting a contract was too high of a bar for Ucrapa. Not the fault of West pilots. That's what you get for throwing out a union and replacing it with U-stupid.

 

[cactusboy53]

Who exactly are YOU trying to convince? No one out east has to worry about $675 "Liberty" tie sales...and I'd suggest caution here, since your admission that you don't at all know (or even could have any actually honest clue) how this will finish might harm contributions and sales somewhat.
 
Maybe you should just stick with posting yet another heroic cry of "This is Sparta! (with an accompanying movie clip of course) and hope for even the dimmest among your throng to remain properly impressed....Just sayin'...
 
I must admit though that: "I don't know how this will finish, BUT it will finish" is indeed a valid point for all of human life...and even the universe it's very self's existence....And thanks as always for the dependable chuckles. 🙂
 
P.S. Perhaps while obviously drowning in that vast ocean of intellect that's seemingly now shared by all "spartan" posters...well...maybe "you'se" should just stick to discussing jockstraps....? Just a gentle suggestion.

I'm not worried about my BEAUTIFUL tie. It's the east-holes that "boo hoo" to company about how seeing them hurts your little fealers.

You boys sure seem concerned about our funds, our attire, how we spend our donated funds, how much we owe Marty, etc.

You REALLY should be more concerned about how " The Jess" is perceived by the arbitrators (be sure to read the recent exchange between Arbitrator Javitz & Pauley - that should give you a clue). Be sure to lead with "it's not fair", they all love that one!

 

[cactusboy53]

FACT: a contract was required to implement the accepted list. No contract was attained... Thus no implementation.

Wow.  It's almost like repeating that SAME phrase will somehow make it true.  CLUE:  When you say the same phrase 3 times over, it DOES NOT make it true.
 
Here's what Vice President Paul Jones of US Airways (LCC) said of USAPA in 2013: 
[SIZE=12pt]“Actually, it is USAPA that is needlessly delaying the resolution of the seniority dispute and jeopardizing the enforceability of the agreement the parties are able to reach. …….The arbitrator’s decision was to be final and binding on both pilot groups and was to be accepted by the Company so long as certain conditions were met.  The Nicolau Award has resulted in four years of litigation including a trial in federal court and jury verdict fining USAPA’s proposal for a non-Nicolau list to constitute an unlawful breach of the union’s duty of fair representation….”[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]Paul D. Jones; Vice President – Legal Affairs and Chief Compliance Officer[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Exhibit 1 of  Declaration of Counsel; Case 13-15000, 02/20/2013[/SIZE]

 

[im back..!!]

It certainly is not Usapa's business. Decertified.


Leave it to a Usapian not to want a contract. Kirby loves Uscabs.

lets do the math,
 
as a f/o forever if i allow the implementation of the nic, 70 % is all will ever attain.
 
70% of any and all financial improvements.
 
125 per hour old rate, implement the nic along with the kirby proposal. approx 155 per hour with the kirby rate at 70 % (my nic ability to hold seniority) 110 per hour.
 
so, 125 to 110, looks like a paycut to me.
 
and people wonder why we didn't embrace the nic.....follow the money

 

[nevergiveup]

I'm not worried about my BEAUTIFUL tie. It's the east-holes that "boo hoo" to company about how seeing them hurts your little fealers.

You boys sure seem concerned about our funds, our attire, how we spend our donated funds, how much we owe Marty, etc.

You REALLY should be more concerned about how " The Jess" is perceived by the arbitrators (be sure to read the recent exchange between Arbitrator Javitz & Pauley - that should give you a clue). Be sure to lead with "it's not fair", they all love that one!

But look at who seems to be crying and whining post after post. "I want to cash my ticket!"

 

[Phoenix]

It certainly is not Usapa's business. Decertified.

Leave it to a Usapian not to want a contract. Kirby loves Uscabs.

The company will never use the Nic. That fact is inescapable.

The minute anyone begins to discuss the reason for that then immediately such a person has begun an attempt to frame and negotiate a resolution forward, thus proving they inherently understand Nic was never actually Final and Binding, but merely only in actuality a "we may or may not really use it."

That is just the nature of a contingent contract.

 

[Claxon]

lets do the math,
 
as a f/o forever if i allow the implementation of the nic, 70 % is all will ever attain.
 
70% of any and all financial improvements.
 
125 per hour old rate, implement the nic along with the kirby proposal. approx 155 per hour with the kirby rate at 70 % (my nic ability to hold seniority) 110 per hour.
 
so, 125 to 110, looks like a paycut to me.
 
and people wonder why we didn't embrace the nic.....follow the money

The PHX reps have honestly blown every opportunity that ever came their way. The above explains it all. Yet Simmons is honestly too stupid to comprehend reality. Time has proven that the west failure to deal at WYE cost them forever.
All you have to do is read every post Simmons makes, and you easily understand why. He quotes the Wake trial as if it has any legal standing. The rest is merely dicta.
Soon, they will make their final and most devasating blunder. The Legacy American pilots will finally see exactly what the problem is. Any chance they had for a reasonable solution will vanish.

 

[luvthe9]

FACT: a contract was required to implement the accepted list. No contract was attained... Thus no implementation.

Funny how that little "fact" was left out by him.



Fact ........no NIC for the west ever.


Fact..........AOL has ruined the careers of all the west pilots.


Fact ..........you are in debt to Marty big time.


Fact..........you made a fatal mistake at WYE RIVER.



Fact.........."we did this to ourselves guys"

 

[luvthe9]

^^^^^^^^^^^^. someone does not like the facts, go figure.

 

[cactusboy53]

Funny how that little "fact" was left out by him.
Fact ........no NIC for the west ever.
Fact..........AOL has ruined the careers of all the west pilots.
Fact ..........you are in debt to Marty big time.
Fact..........you made a fatal mistake at WYE RIVER.
Fact.........."we did this to ourselves guys"

WOW, that wasn't desperate. Right? We LUV facts. That's WYE we try to school you boyz.

Only 13 days until the "Jess" is delivered! I'm excited to see what Jess & the gang have concocted as "fair & equitable"!

 

[luvthe9]

WOW, that wasn't desperate. Right? We LUV facts. That's WYE we try to school you boyz.
Only 13 days until the "Jess" is delivered! I'm excited to see what Jess & the gang have concocted as "fair & equitable"!

Just glad you understand that there will be no NIC.


Only 13 days to go before the west tell their saga on the long lost NIC.


This is going to be fun to watch.

Wonder what the west position will be on the furloughed AA kids, funny none of you ever mention that.

 

[luvthe9]

Come on now you can admit it no NIC for the west, we know, I'm starting to think you are the one that made that fateful decision at WYE RIVER, right DAVE you are responsible for the downfall of the west pilots.

 

[cactusboy53]

Just glad you understand that there will be no NIC.
Only 13 days to go before the west tell their saga on the long lost NIC.
This is going to be fun to watch.
Wonder what the west position will be on the furloughed AA kids, funny none of you ever mention that.

Or you must understand there will be no do-over's again. USAPA cost us all the raises & contract improvements that could have been realized in 2008. Oh, it will be fun.

Carry on Luvr, keep clicking those heels.