2015 Pilot Discussion.

[luvthe9]

Don't you think they'd have better representation without the 9th's decision hanging over your heads? It's not going away. Ask the USAPA merger committee. Oh wait, they jumped ship. Renaming the Titanic won't do you any good, btw.

No, there will be no NIC, thought we covered that already.



Fair and equitable.

 

[Claxon]

snapthis
Posted Today, 04:32 PM


 




Claxon, on 07 Jul 2015 - 2:54 PM, said:

"YOU HAD NOTHING" - Spinthis

Kind of like Richard Nixon- " I AM NOT A CROOK"

snapthis post today in reply to Claxon post above;;;
 
'You need to learn how to focus. The case was dismissed (C-18), period, end of story. It's along the lines of that footnote which means squat which you are obsessed. The fact of the matter, is that you threw a fit and abandoned the process. You pretty much screwed yourselves. I don't have much sympathy for you except the 3rd listers, who deserved better representation."
 
Snap, the third listers are enjoying being Captains and flying the A330 overseas, if you take over representing them, they will be enjoying the EMB 190 right seat and pay. 
 
Foot note 12 highlights the death of the nic,  focus on that for a while.

 

[luvthe9]

As long as it's a "reality" in your mind, that's all that counts.  RIght Liar...uhm Luvr?
 
I'll tell you what.  When, and ONLY when you reveal your identity here, will I actually debate you and your weak arguments and lies.  What do "you'se" think of that challenge?
 
See you in court & at the arbitration with your Magical Mystery Merger Committee.

The only lies are coming from your side, did you not subscribe to U-turn, A lot of your pilots did and they know YOU screwed them over with your stupidity, WYE RIVER ring a bell ?



Hey maybe go to the source and ask Blomgren,








From: u-turn [mailto:awapilots@mindspring.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 11:59 PM
Subject: U-Turn: Taking Responsibility

Taking Responsibility

A recession is when you have to tighten your belt; depression is when you have no belt to tighten. When you've lost your trousers - you're in the airline business. Sir Adam Thomson

Over the past few U-Turns, weve noticed a change in the tone of comments weve received. Maybe the reality of what we are up against is finally sinking in. Some accused us of taking the quotes from the Freund rebuttal out of context. We didnt. Weve had requests for copies of Jeff Freunds actual East Vs West court documents. The file is too big to be directly cut and pasted. We can forward it in a scanned PDF-ZIP/Scan format. Just email us. Remember, we have no website, no budget and receive no donations. Maybe someone will paste it as an attachment on the AWAPPA web board for all to view. We would do it ourselves, but weve all been banned from the AWAPPA web board since May.

We have also received additional comments on what happened at Wye River from both sides. While our initial reporting appears to be correct and consistent with the latest accounts, it was incomplete. Heres additional information from both sides.

According to our reports, on Day One of Wye River, Jeff Freund warned the West MEC that if USAPA won, the West risked losing everything. He urged reaching an agreement. He was gone on Day Two. We wont address his motivation for leaving.
As Jeff Freund observed in his rebuttal to the East MEC lawsuit, the NIC was not in stone. And the loss of ALPA put it in real trouble. At least ALPA had the obligation, through the ALPA Merger Policy, to attempt to get the company to use the NIC Award.

ALPAs lawyers knew the list was negotiable, but they never told either rank and file. We attended last summers ALPA road shows in PHX, starring Paul Rice and a cast of ALPA attorneys. Did ALPA ever hint that the NIC was negotiable? We believe it was for fear of fanning the flames and drawing more support for USAPA that Herndon kept that from us. They did tell all the Wye River attendees the reality. One side listened, the other didnt.

In last summers East Vs West lawsuit, the East used ALPA DUES MONEY and an ALPA-Approved attorney, Roland Wilder, to pursue the case. As far as we can determine, we had to use our own Merger Fund money to defend ourselves. Thanks for choosing sides, ALPA! In the likely event that the NIC will be trashed in a single contract, it will be our own voluntary contributions that will have to be raised for a DFR lawsuit. USAPA expects it, so we shouldnt disappoint them. This could be an extremely costly effort that could drag on for years. U-Turn is not discouraging filing a DFR, and we need closure.

Jeff Freund is a top-notch lawyer. We have no doubt that he told our MEC the truth about how negotiable the NIC really was. The question is: why didnt CJ, Bendett, et al, listen? We figure that they either didnt believe him or after all their hairy-chested resolutions and hotlines, they were afraid to back down. What good are attorneys if you dont take their advice?

There is one other possibility. We mentioned it in a previous U-Turn. Our union leaders believed that the USAPA vote would be close (razors edge, to quote one of them) and that it was worth holding out and rolling the dice, figuring that if ALPA survived, so would the NIC. Too bad ALPA didnt explain the importance of the 30% of East pilots who refused to participate in the Wilson Polling.

We now have a better picture what the East MEC had on the table: an 8 year fence, furloughs by longevity (LOS), MDA time not counting for longevity, Dave ODell having 400 pilots below him, and the Nic surviving as THE LIST. Yes, the East offered the NIC. They just wanted to protect their retirement attrition, which stalled by the change in Age-60. Looking back, that offer must look like a home run to any West pilot right now, but last February the EAST MEC and ALPA couldnt get to first base with it.

Our former MEC and our union leadership played a very high stakes game of poker by not dealing at Wye River. Freund was right, we were risking everything..and right now, it looks like we lost. They need to take responsibility for that.

U-Turn


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BIG SMILES DAVE!. YOU'LL BE IN PHX FOR YEARS TO COME!!!!

 

[luvthe9]

Listen closely....hang in there...I know it's hard. Stay with me pal...."USAPA" merger committee participated at the behest of the APA. The 9th STILL slapped the APA granted merger committee named "USAPA" with an injunction. The 9th Knows with certainty that "USAPA" isn't an actuall, recognized labor union.  So....still there buddy? Listen. If the APA, ONCE AGAIN chooses to allow another east group named "it wasn't us" East Committee. There isstill no cover from the Injunction. Read the actual text of the decision.
 
I know changing your name kind of worked last time. Not anymore. The 9th reached out and enjoined the East pilots working under the name "USAPA" underneath the umbrella of the APA. There is NO difference between "USAPA" and the "It wasn't us" gang. Both allowed to operate by the APA. Your days of hiding behind a union name are 100% OVER.
 
So, the question is, Does the "It wasn't me" gang take their invisible ball and go home Once again if forced to advocate for the Nic?  Any money says they do.
 
One positive thing that came out of the East Pilot induced two month delay is it gives Silver plenty of time to write an Iron Clad Injunction. It's not like there's a single person involved in this on any level that doesn't understand what the East is attempting to do....again.
 
PS. pull out your wallet. From here on out, It's on your dime.

"One of the four Leonidas LLC directors is apparently now employed as an American Airlines pilot;\

Having Kevin Horner associated in any way with this DFR only hurts the effort. How can he adequately meet the fiduciary requirements to fairly represent the class? Our sources have told us that Kevin Horner’s current union, the APA, is furious with him for his participation in a DFR suit against another union."

 

[EastCheats]

Page 642..send in the clowns.
 
This is sooo entertaining.

 

[luvthe9]

Sorry DAVE!






"U-Turn has reviewed this LOA on the A330 and all we can say is: “Where’s the Beef?” Where are the phantom flights we negotiated for? Where are those phantom planes that haven’t even been built?

Where are the A330 going? The LOA clearly states:
Airbus A330 aircraft may be operated by the Pilots covered by this Agreement at any point in time as determined by the Company.

“MAY be operated…” So where are the A330 going? The clear answer is, for the short, medium and potentially long term: they are ALL going East, if they show up at all.

That’s right. You heard it at the U-Turn first. Every recent SEC filing shows all Far East international growth at US Airways on the A330 will be out of PHL. There is no mention of any international wide-body flying out of PHX at all. The MEC negotiated a fantasy."

 

[Black Swan]

Money is not a problem. I'm sure they could raise a couple of mil in a matter of days. I'm not blowing smoke. Many are asking already where to send the check!

For sure.

" You won't get 200 cards" comes to mind.

 

[Claxon]

Page 642..send in the clowns.
 
This is sooo entertaining.

The 9th advised Judge Silver to rule on attorney fees. 
 
Has the army of lyingitas stopped asking for donations and told you about a refund for your 675 dollar tie purchases yet?  (rhetorical question).

 

[luvthe9]

All:

I am going to ask all AWA pilots (and especially our regular chat board residents) to please refrain from posting inflammatory material on any and all ALPA National or other web boards and please show respect and consideration and courtesy to their ALPA brothers and sisters on the east.

I will say that the hard work has yet to come. I fully expect to be in a representation election in a matter of days. And we will need all US Airways pilots - east and west - to pull together else we may not make it over the next set of hurdles.

There is a very long road ahead and it will require a lot of dedication and effort to navigate this road.

Thank you for your cooperation with my request.

Fraternally,

John McIlvenna
AWA MEC Chairman







Amazingafter four months of non-stop bashing of the East, McIlvenna now wants our Web Board mavens to cool their jets and throttle back to idle. He wants us all to play nice in the sandbox. WHY?

If you think it is merely because we won the battle at the EC, you would be only partially correct. The most likely reason is ALPA let Johnnie see the Wilson Polling results. The polls probably told Herndon what they fear the most: it isnt going to make any difference what the EC did last week, the cards to vote ALPA off the island were thereBEFORE the four EC resolutions.

Yep, no doubt that ALPA is in a heap of trouble and might not be able to stay the course at the new US Airways. And now Herndon needs the West MECs help. Tone down the rhetoric is McIlvennas message. But it was only a message on the Web Board, not added to any MEC update, nor circulated by the MEC.

For the past four and a half months, U-Turn has been warning against this West MEC bashing of the East. And for McIlvenna to ask for a rhetorical cease-fire this late in the process is evidence that his miscalculations have come home to roost. Perhaps the Hotline Lies and the Jurassic jabs of John Jurik on the National Web Board are gone. But its too little and too late. While ALPA attempts to save the property, their fate may have already been determined. The legacy of this MEC will be its bashing the East to the point where even the moderates in CLT said enough is enough. And when there is no longer an ALPA Web board on which to post, all we at U-Turn can say is:
We told you so!



Hey DAVE! WHAT DID U-TURN SAY? BIG SMILES.

 

[Phoenix]

Listen closely....hang in there...I know it's hard. Stay with me pal...."USAPA" merger committee participated at the behest of the APA. The 9th STILL slapped the APA granted merger committee named "USAPA" with an injunction. The 9th Knows with certainty that "USAPA" isn't an actuall, recognized labor union.  So....still there buddy? Listen. If the APA, ONCE AGAIN chooses to allow another east group named "it wasn't us" East Committee. There isstill no cover from the Injunction. Read the actual text of the decision.
 
I know changing your name kind of worked last time. Not anymore. The 9th reached out and enjoined the East pilots working under the name "USAPA" underneath the umbrella of the APA. There is NO difference between "USAPA" and the "It wasn't us" gang. Both allowed to operate by the APA. Your days of hiding behind a union name are 100% OVER.
 
So, the question is, Does the "It wasn't me" gang take their invisible ball and go home Once again if forced to advocate for the Nic?  Any money says they do.
 
One positive thing that came out of the East Pilot induced two month delay is it gives Silver plenty of time to write an Iron Clad Injunction. It's not like there's a single person involved in this on any level that doesn't understand what the East is attempting to do....again.
 
PS. pull out your wallet. From here on out, It's on your dime.

Don't waste my time.

Pipe down and watch.

 

[Phoenix]

The west pilot merger committee jumped ship for the same reason, they thought they would not be represented fairly.
 
Link below.
 
http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/LMRDA_Suit/Resignation_letter_Scherff_Ferguson_&_Simmons.pdf

 

[EastCheats]

 

The west pilot merger committee jumped ship for the same reason, they thought they would not be represented fairly.
 
Link below.
 
http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/LMRDA_Suit/Resignation_letter_Scherff_Ferguson_&_Simmons.pdf

 

 
Uh...OK

 

[Claxon]

The SLI integration for the new American Airlines will not be complete till this time next year at best.  Mr. Kirby mentioned IT problems which will easily delay pilot integration to well in to 2017.  I predict 2020 to be the year.
 
Former American pilots and former US Airways pilots are not complaining or concerned about this because they are keeping what they brought to the merger.
 
former america west pilots, you are keeping what you brought to the merger, why are you so concerned about any delay?

 

[nycbusdriver]

How do you plan to "appeal"? SCOTUS? You're going to attempt  that anyway. The Arbs were pretty clear that they are moving on full speed ahead after this last delay. I believe them. Whatever Silver says will stand long before any writ of certiorari will be looked at.
 
Again, if the 9th is no big deal, why did USAPA quit? You realize that by doing that the East has forfeited USAPA's treasury right?
 
You know? The "union" treasury that ALL US Airways pilots paid into, (under threat of termination) for the "benefit" of ALL US Airways pilots...
 
Interesting to see what 'ol Conrad says about that.

 
Typically...you totally missed the point...you even missed your own point.
 
 

 If Silver attaches the 9th's order to the new "east" committee, how is that any different?
 
 

 
The fact is, it is different.  The Ninth remanded to Silver for specific changes which she will have to incorporate.
 
The Ninth did not tell Silver expand their ruling disallowing USAPA to participate and aply it to east pilots in general.
 
THAT would be an appealable change.....and more delays?   

 

[Claxon]

All:
I am going to ask all AWA pilots (and especially our regular chat board residents) to please refrain from posting inflammatory material on any and all ALPA National or other web boards and please show respect and consideration and courtesy to their ALPA brothers and sisters on the east.
I will say that the hard work has yet to come. I fully expect to be in a representation election in a matter of days. And we will need all US Airways pilots - east and west - to pull together else we may not make it over the next set of hurdles.
There is a very long road ahead and it will require a lot of dedication and effort to navigate this road.
Thank you for your cooperation with my request.
Fraternally,
John McIlvenna
AWA MEC Chairman
Amazingafter four months of non-stop bashing of the East, McIlvenna now wants our Web Board mavens to cool their jets and throttle back to idle. He wants us all to play nice in the sandbox. WHY?
If you think it is merely because we won the battle at the EC, you would be only partially correct. The most likely reason is ALPA let Johnnie see the Wilson Polling results. The polls probably told Herndon what they fear the most: it isnt going to make any difference what the EC did last week, the cards to vote ALPA off the island were thereBEFORE the four EC resolutions.
Yep, no doubt that ALPA is in a heap of trouble and might not be able to stay the course at the new US Airways. And now Herndon needs the West MECs help. Tone down the rhetoric is McIlvennas message. But it was only a message on the Web Board, not added to any MEC update, nor circulated by the MEC.
For the past four and a half months, U-Turn has been warning against this West MEC bashing of the East. And for McIlvenna to ask for a rhetorical cease-fire this late in the process is evidence that his miscalculations have come home to roost. Perhaps the Hotline Lies and the Jurassic jabs of John Jurik on the National Web Board are gone. But its too little and too late. While ALPA attempts to save the property, their fate may have already been determined. The legacy of this MEC will be its bashing the East to the point where even the moderates in CLT said enough is enough. And when there is no longer an ALPA Web board on which to post, all we at U-Turn can say is:
We told you so!
Hey DAVE! WHAT DID U-TURN SAY? BIG SMILES.

McIlvenna is at it again on C&R. Jurik is right here, on this board constantly baiting.
Now they have the help of Dave Simmons in infuriating the LAA pilots.
Simmons predicted his PHL 330 bid this fall. Too bad Mr. Nice Smiley Guy. It isn't happening this fall or next fall. The one after that is a long stretch and he will be left seat on a 190.
Spin this is making a losing attempt at making more of the 9 th than is actually there. 700UW paid a visit to pitch his decades long strange and wacky stories, then slithered back to his usual venue.
East pilots will have their own committee and will not be bound to any west proposal.