2015 Pilot Discussion.

[Black Swan]

Good for you I took an airplane where the Captains window was ajar. So... which is more unsafe? RAD/NAV or a window sliding back on T/O?

Not making light of this, but please answer: Is the window covered or not on the preflight flow(not that anyone should partially open)? Yes

Is any pilot performing the flow that covers Rad/Nav if not required for a departure/ MEL prior to takeoff? Not that I am aware of.
Please enlighten me if I am incorrect.
You guys are taking some extremely risky chances with the number of FAA personnel on our flight decks these days. Someone is going to hear about this one because of that very reason.

 

[Claxon]

The west pilot leaders have not provided an update after such a crucial court ruling. 
"Silence speaks volumes".
 
The west pilot leaders have not efficiently managed the expectations of the west pilots.
 
The SLI board will have no choice but to reset such expectations this week. 
 
IE: The nic as a starter is not appropriate, back to the drawing board boys. 

 

[Black Swan]

The west pilot leaders have not provided an update after such a crucial court ruling. 
"Silence speaks volumes".
 
The west pilot leaders have not efficiently managed the expectations of the west pilots.
 
The SLI board will have no choice but to reset such expectations this week.

I would imagine any reference to the never implemented award termed the Nicolau will be tabled for no legal standing.
No matter what the former PHX rep says.

 

[luvthe9]

May 6, 2008, AWAPPA legal counsel Jeffrey Freund posted the following warning to former America West pilots on the AWAPPA Web Board: If we are negligent in that responsibility, we open ourselves up to litigation from the company and/or other pilots.




http://cactus18.typepad.com/the_cactus_18/files/USAPAcomplaint.pdf








- 14 - Case 3:08-cv-00246-GCM Document 1 Filed 05/30/2008 Page 17 of 52

telephone number from his cellular telephone between April 19, 2008 and May 1, 2008. Upon information and belief, Cundaris cellular telephone carrier is Verizon Wireless and his cell phone number is (602) 510-7650.

57. Upon information and belief, defendant Auxier made 45 telephone calls, for a total of 160 minutes, to the USAPA toll-free telephone number from telephone number (505) 710-4970. Auxier made 33 of the 45 calls between May 1 and May 7, 2008.

58. Defendant Auxiers postings on the AWAPPA Web Board end with the message, Have you called 877-678-7272 25 times today???

59. Upon information and belief, defendant Narloch made 30 telephone calls, for a total of 228 minutes, to the USAPA toll-free telephone number from telephone number (480) 946-2757. Narloch made 21 of the 30 calls between April 25 and April 30, 2008.

60. Upon information and belief, on April 30, 2008, defendant Hannah made 65 telephone calls, for a total of 227 minutes, to the USAPA toll-free telephone number from telephone number (480) 814-7772.
61. Upon information and belief, defendant Maree made 28 telephone calls, for a total of 153 minutes, to the USAPA toll-free telephone number from telephone number (480) 816-6127. Maree made 24 of the 28 calls on April 25, 2008.

62. Upon information and belief, on or about May 6, 2008, AWAPPA legal counsel Jeffrey Freund posted the following warning to former America West pilots on the AWAPPA Web Board:
While it is our goal to allow all America West pilots to access these forums for the purpose of unrestricted sharing of information and

- 15 - Case 3:08-cv-00246-GCM Document 1 Filed 05/30/2008 Page 18 of 52
opinions, it is important to remember that these forums are owned and operated by a private corporation that can be liable for things that take place here. That liability obligates us to maintain some degree of decorum. If we are negligent in that responsibility, we open ourselves up to litigation from the company and/or other pilots.
63. A pilot identified as CJ posted the following message on the AWAPPA Web Board, in agreement with Attorney Jeffrey Freunds warning:
All this talk of dialing USAPA over and over and other threads could be problematic for AWAPPA if USAPA or the company become aggressive.

64. However, in response to the above posting by CJ, defendant Vasin, a director of AWAPPA, ratified the acts of telephone sabotage by posting a message on the AWAPPA Web Board in which he stated, No, it's ok to talk about dialing USAPA over and over . Upon information and belief, the jeering face at the end of defendant Vasins message reflects the malicious intent of his directive to AWAPPA supporters.

65. AWAPPA is continuing to promote the above-described acts of telephone sabotage. On May 21, 2008, USAPA published an update message to its members, which stated, recent news is also available on the USAPA phone message updated every few days. The news is out there; reach out and grab it! Upon information and belief, in response to that May 21st message, defendant Braid posted the following message on the AWAPPA Web Board:
Look they said it again. Call often to stay informed. Reach out and call from every pay phone you see. What is the ambulance chaser talking about? Acts of sabotage. They said to call.

66. In addition to the above-described sabotage of USAPAs toll-free information line, hundreds of false telephone calls have also been made to the USAPA Safety Hotline in order to sabotage that vital union service.



http://cactus18.typepad.com/files/amended-complaint.pdf


48. In a March 18, 2008, letter to former America West pilots, defendant McIlvenna, a director of AWAPPA and Leonidas LLC, declared war against USAPA and stated that there are plans in place to destroy USAPA should they prevail as our bargaining agent.

-


- 14 - Case 3:08-cv-00246-GCM Document 1 Filed 05/30/2008 Page 17 of 52

telephone number from his cellular telephone between April 19, 2008 and May 1, 2008. Upon information and belief, Cundaris cellular telephone carrier is Verizon Wireless and his cell phone number is (602) 510-7650.

57. Upon information and belief, defendant Auxier made 45 telephone calls, for a total of 160 minutes, to the USAPA toll-free telephone number from telephone number (505) 710-4970. Auxier made 33 of the 45 calls between May 1 and May 7, 2008.

58. Defendant Auxiers postings on the AWAPPA Web Board end with the message, Have you called 877-678-7272 25 times today???

59. Upon information and belief, defendant Narloch made 30 telephone calls, for a total of 228 minutes, to the USAPA toll-free telephone number from telephone number (480) 946-2757. Narloch made 21 of the 30 calls between April 25 and April 30, 2008.

60. Upon information and belief, on April 30, 2008, defendant Hannah made 65 telephone calls, for a total of 227 minutes, to the USAPA toll-free telephone number from telephone number (480) 814-7772.
61. Upon information and belief, defendant Maree made 28 telephone calls, for a total of 153 minutes, to the USAPA toll-free telephone number from telephone number (480) 816-6127. Maree made 24 of the 28 calls on April 25, 2008.

62. Upon information and belief, on or about May 6, 2008, AWAPPA legal counsel Jeffrey Freund posted the following warning to former America West pilots on the AWAPPA Web Board:
While it is our goal to allow all America West pilots to access these forums for the purpose of unrestricted sharing of information and

- 15 - Case 3:08-cv-00246-GCM Document 1 Filed 05/30/2008 Page 18 of 52
opinions, it is important to remember that these forums are owned and operated by a private corporation that can be liable for things that take place here. That liability obligates us to maintain some degree of decorum. If we are negligent in that responsibility, we open ourselves up to litigation from the company and/or other pilots.
63. A pilot identified as CJ posted the following message on the AWAPPA Web Board, in agreement with Attorney Jeffrey Freunds warning:
All this talk of dialing USAPA over and over and other threads could be problematic for AWAPPA if USAPA or the company become aggressive.

64. However, in response to the above posting by CJ, defendant Vasin, a director of AWAPPA, ratified the acts of telephone sabotage by posting a message on the AWAPPA Web Board in which he stated, No, it's ok to talk about dialing USAPA over and over . Upon information and belief, the jeering face at the end of defendant Vasins message reflects the malicious intent of his directive to AWAPPA supporters.

65. AWAPPA is continuing to promote the above-described acts of telephone sabotage. On May 21, 2008, USAPA published an update message to its members, which stated, recent news is also available on the USAPA phone message updated every few days. The news is out there; reach out and grab it! Upon information and belief, in response to that May 21st message, defendant Braid posted the following message on the AWAPPA Web Board:
Look they said it again. Call often to stay informed. Reach out and call from every pay phone you see. What is the ambulance chaser talking about? Acts of sabotage. They said to call.

66. In addition to the above-described sabotage of USAPAs toll-free information line, hundreds of false telephone calls have also been made to the USAPA Safety Hotline in order to sabotage that vital union service.



http://cactus18.typepad.com/files/amended-complaint.pdf


48. In a March 18, 2008, letter to former America West pilots, defendant McIlvenna, a director of AWAPPA and Leonidas LLC, declared war against USAPA and stated that there are plans in place to destroy USAPA should they prevail as our bargaining agent.








The west pilots sabotaging cockpits.............Im sure they would not do anything

-

 

[EastUS1]

Not making light of this, but please answer: Is the window covered or not on the preflight flow(not that anyone should partially open)? Yes

Is any pilot performing the flow that covers Rad/Nav if not required for a departure/ MEL prior to takeoff? Not that I am aware of.
Please enlighten me if I am incorrect.
You guys are taking some extremely risky chances with the number of FAA personnel on our flight decks these days. Someone is going to hear about this one because of that very reason.

 
Bluntly speaking; no intelligence testing of any kind was done during AWA "pilot" hiring, and some of these people simply aren't "the brightest bulbs in the box"....Period. What kind of utter moron would think it "cute" to falsify an aircraft log book by signing himself as "George Nicolau" for just one example? Consider further the infantile AWA idiots that left a "cute" little doll with a noose around it's neck in the cockpit of a passenger-carrying commercial airliner in St Louis a few years back. I won't even go into their fools with some superman complex that've many times posted how much "better" FLT1549 would've presumably been handled by them, nor their "perfect safety record" fantasies. I've not kidded about using their group as an actually amazing field study of Arrested Development in supposed "professionals".  I've honestly never before seen their like. I'll leave all to consider these "Lords and Ladies"/"Valor"-soaked and "battle"-tested "knights"/"dire wolves"/"spartans"/whatever as the readers best see fit:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT8H9smpK3U

 

[Claxon]

 
"7. The Arbitration Board shall have the authority to establish a fair
and equitable integrated seniority list as required by the McCaskill
Bond Act; provided, that any such integrated seniority list shall comply with the
conditions set forth in paragraph 10.b. of the MOU. The Arbitration Board
shall also have authority to resolve any dispute regarding the employment
data exchanged pursuant to paragraphs 3 and 4 above; to resolve all
procedural matters regarding the arbitration; and, subject to
paragraph 8.b. below, to resolve any dispute regarding the
interpretation and application of this Protocol Agreement arising
prior to issuance of the final award under paragraph 13 below."

Bottom line;
 
Dicta, rhetorical clubs, forum posts and past history will be ignored by the MB SLI Arbitration board, it is in their full legal and binding control now.
 
The west and legacy american pilots are most concerned, dicta nor a stapler will be allowed in any future MB SLI proceedings.  The Legacy amr and west pilots proposals do not recognize the MB SLI Arbitration Boards initial findings.

"4 While enjoining the USAPA Merger Committee from participating in the McCaskill-Bond seniority integration arbitration, except to the extent that it advocates the Nicolau Award, the Addington majority recognized that, given the requirement of a ratificationvote by all pilots for any joint collective bargaining agreement, it was unclear whether theNicolau Award would have been implemented fully but for USAPA’s actions. Further,the court expressly declined to order that an unmodified Nicolau Award be used to orderthe seniority of the East and West pilots in the arbitration.
MB SLI Arbitration Board
 

 

[usabusdriver]

Not making light of this, but please answer: Is the window covered or not on the preflight flow(not that anyone should partially open)? Yes

Is any pilot performing the flow that covers Rad/Nav if not required for a departure/ MEL prior to takeoff? Not that I am aware of.
Please enlighten me if I am incorrect.
You guys are taking some extremely risky chances with the number of FAA personnel on our flight decks these days. Someone is going to hear about this one because of that very reason.

 
 
Look at the back of the checklist under Approach Briefing.
 
You are supposed to verify the frequency.

 

[Claxon]

 
 
Look at the back of the checklist under Approach Briefing.
 
You are supposed to verify the frequency.

The point is the East pilots should not be subjected to a former west pilot induced Easter Egg hunt during a equipment change.  That is almost as an ignorant of a reply than the company's, head in the sand, follow sop and that will take care of it approach. 
 
Bottom line, it is a block of threat error management that should not exist.

 

[EastUS1]

Is any pilot performing the flow that covers Rad/Nav if not required for a departure/ MEL prior to takeoff?

Look at the back of the checklist under Approach Briefing.
 
You are supposed to verify the frequency.

 
Umm...and just when does one ever do an Approach Briefing prior to takeoff?
 
"Bluntly speaking; no intelligence testing of any kind was done during AWA "pilot" hiring, and some of these people simply aren't "the brightest bulbs in the box"....Period."

 

[Claxon]

Should barely 7 percent of the pilot group be allowed to control a multi-billion dollar airlines operations future and safety of the general public?
 
I truly feel a westectomy is the only viable treatment.

 

[dariencc]

Right back at you Capt. Stool Sample. This marriage would have been much better if AWA Holdings simply purchase the US Air assets. AWA, being the "can do" crew, would have surely made it happen.

 
The "can do" crew.  What a perfect description of the history of your magnificent outfit.  Your buddy Mike Daley is truly the poster boy for the great AWA "can do" attitude.  
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5t5aE0iW4o

 

[Phoenix]

Should barely 7 percent of the pilot group be allowed to control a multi-billion dollar airlines operations future and safety of the general public?
 
I truly feel a westectomy is the only viable treatment.

If I were doing that sheet I wouldn't be worried about the company, I'ld be worried about the FBI peaking.  

 

[Phoenix]

Claxon quoted Judge Silver... Will the BOA find it necessary to quote Judge Silver too, or is it pretty much a given on account of the Protocol Agreement?  (i.e. Judge Silver wasn't writing for the BOA, who already has a handle on things, but instead she wrote for the Spartan, Leospanker, integrity soaked, willfully assumptive crowd)
 
"The Ninth Circuit’s opinion recounts the lengthy and very confrontational history between the West Pilots, the East Pilots, and USAPA. That history is not relevant here

 

[cactusboy53]

The west pilot leaders have not provided an update after such a crucial court ruling. 
"Silence speaks volumes".
 
The west pilot leaders have not efficiently managed the expectations of the west pilots.
 
The SLI board will have no choice but to reset such expectations this week. 
 
IE: The nic as a starter is not appropriate, back to the drawing board boys.

No update because we are spending our time & resources preparing for next Tuesdays SLI proceedings. Our group knows how to read and understand legal proceedings, and read between the lines. We understood legal jargon Luke "FINAL & BINDING".

No big mystery Claxy Boy. See you Tuesday. I would strongly recommend that all parties read the transcripts in full, and NOT just believe any leadership that claims "supremely confident" outcomes. That way you won't have to call up the CIRP team.

 

[cactusboy53]

Not making light of this, but please answer: Is the window covered or not on the preflight flow(not that anyone should partially open)? Yes
Is any pilot performing the flow that covers Rad/Nav if not required for a departure/ MEL prior to takeoff? Not that I am aware of.
Please enlighten me if I am incorrect.
You guys are taking some extremely risky chances with the number of FAA personnel on our flight decks these days. Someone is going to hear about this one because of that very reason.

How do you think it was CAUGHT? If we CAUGHT it on the flow, no risk (to us by gbe FAA). Right?

If it was a East pilot that left the window ajar, I assume you are addressing those pilots in the "you guys" term.