What's new

2015 Pilot Discussion.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Phoenix said:
You seem to have missed the point entirely.  That's OK, you must be too young to have watched Klinger on M*A*S*H.
Klinger

You had a point? Yup, I missed it.....Entirely :lol:

I was old enough to watch "Caitlyn" Jenner win the decathlon in the 1976 Olympic Games.

Am I getting close? :lol:
 
dariencc said:
 
The boy is completely bonkers.
 
Oh, don 't be so judgmental here! I mean; just because he apparently equates Burbank and Orange County airports with landing a bird on a pitching carrier deck at sea's nothing to question....Whew! Talk about a life in Fantasyland. All "Squid" jokes aside; I've always held a healthy respect for USN folks that fly on/off Bird Farms, but I can't say I've ever become overly excited by landing at those two airports.
 
What I think throws me off most is the following: "Gay took a step closer to his boyhood dreams of taking flight, enrolling at the Embry- Riddle Aeronautical University,....
 
Discouraged, but not defeated, he finished his first year of flight school and enrolled at the University of Texas at Austin to study accounting like his father. ............ If you dont have the passion for something, you can never be truly great at it, he says.

Still not settled into the cockpit, ..... Midway through, the Continental pilot stopped him. Gay recalls, He said, The rules have changed. Theres no age restriction, you no longer have to have uncorrected 20/20 vision, and theyre hiring lots of civilian- trained pilots. You can fly now.

I just thought to myself, if I wanted to make a go of this, I would have to give it 100%.
Steve Gay"
 
So, let me get this straight here: A supposedly grand "passion"..."to give it 100%" (that was bailed out on after the very first year of an aviation-based college) would never have been seriously pursued at all if it weren't for a chance conversation with a Continental guy years afterward? Wow!..Now THERE'S some true determination and "passion" well-evidenced. 😉  Small wonder this fellow expects "seniority" to be magically handed to him on a silver platter as well.
 
luvthe9 said:
Ask Simmons Wye they turned down the NIC...........what a huge mistake, all because of greed and arrogance....

Dave, your thoughts please, sir.
My thoughts, Johnny Boy? You are a Web Board bully, a LIAR, a cheat, a thief, and one of the poorest escuses for a human being that holds a aviation position with this company.

Your group has lied, persecuted, prosecuted and attempted to break our will and resolve. You have attempted to evade your obligation, and replace it with a date of hire seniority list under the claim that the AWA pilots are attempting to jump seniority by placing a new hire with a pilot of many years AND NOW your EPSIC is NOW arguing to place a "third list" pilot in front of a former AWA pilot with years of seniority. Your mission: ABJECT FAILURE.

Your now in another process that requires you to AGAIN abide by product of that process. I have NO DOUBT that if the list is not what you deem fair, you will AGAIN cry foul, seek counsel from the CIRP (again), and conger up some hair brained plan to again attempt to circumnavigate the list.

Savvy?
 
cactusboy53 said:
My thoughts, Johnny Boy? You are a Web Board bully, a LIAR, a cheat, a thief, and one of the poorest escuses for a human being that holds a aviation position with this company.
Your group has lied, persecuted, prosecuted and attempted to break our will and resolve. You have attempted to evade your obligation, and replace it with a date of hire seniority list under the claim that the AWA pilots are attempting to jump seniority by placing a new hire with a pilot of many years AND NOW your EPSIC is NOW arguing to place a "third list" pilot in front of a former AWA pilot with years of seniority. Your mission: ABJECT FAILURE.
Your now in another process that requires you to AGAIN abide by product of that process. I have NO DOUBT that if the list is not what you deem fair, you will AGAIN cry foul, seek counsel from the CIRP (again), and conger up some hair brained plan to again attempt to circumnavigate the list.
Savvy?
And you are seriously over dramatic. There is no grand conspiracy to circumnavigate anything. The process is working and we will see where we end up.
 
cactusboy53 said:
My thoughts, Johnny Boy? You are a Web Board bully, a LIAR, a cheat, a thief, and one of the poorest escuses for a human being that holds a aviation position with this company.
Your group has lied, persecuted, prosecuted and attempted to break our will and resolve. You have attempted to evade your obligation, and replace it with a date of hire seniority list under the claim that the AWA pilots are attempting to jump seniority by placing a new hire with a pilot of many years AND NOW your EPSIC is NOW arguing to place a "third list" pilot in front of a former AWA pilot with years of seniority. Your mission: ABJECT FAILURE.
Your now in another process that requires you to AGAIN abide by product of that process. I have NO DOUBT that if the list is not what you deem fair, you will AGAIN cry foul, seek counsel from the CIRP (again), and conger up some hair brained plan to again attempt to circumnavigate the list.
Savvy?
"Web board bully" that's funny, man up boy this is just entertainment, NO lies son, I just post what your pilots have said so tell them they are liars, you Dave are the thief, you stole our personal data sent poop in the mail, tied up phone lines, look in the mirror boy, and it was OK to place a two year west pilot ahead of a SEVENTEEN active pilot, you were fine with that, right.......Wye don't you understand? You did this to yourselves.


Do you remember NIC or NOTHING?




http://forums.flightinfo.com

05-31-2008, 09:46

Hey Cactusboy
Hey Dave,

Watch out what you post. They know who you are.
Attorneys are advised. Hope you have deep pockets .

Good luck

Marty



Quote:
Originally Posted by cactusboy53

Here's the important thing: As new USAPA pilots we must all be informed and remain informed.

If you want to find out what is going on, call USAPA's hotline. The phone number is: (877) 678-7272. If the line quality is sub-standard, move to the next pay phone and try the number again. Keep trying, because informed is empowered. If it takes 200-300 calls a day, stay informed!!!!

For those of you that are not involved in this event but have a merger on the horizon, you should call too to understand the dynamics.
 
dariencc said:
 
The boy is completely bonkers.
Can't anyone put a muzzle on that corporate executive stalker? Doesn't he have any friends that will tell him to shut up? He didn't get it when the nice lady told him that the they were going to get him a wings tattoo to put on the kids' forehead instead of the wings with the adhesive that he considers inadequate. (Quite funny actually.) He could not read Isom's body language when he started talking and Isom responded that his Tshirt was a bit too much. And he didn't get it when his boss told him that he had enough time, after twelve minutes of talking. He still asked another question. He creeped me out a bit when he said that he is mentoring a kid. Who is allowing their kid to go places with this guy?
 
I was in that back of a West airplane when this nerdy looking captain came on board and began making PA announcements. He would not shut up. It was embarrassing and it was all about him. "I am going to take you to...I am going get you there on time." Everything was about him. Nothing about a team, the airline or the first officer, flight attendants, mechanics, ground personnel or those guys on the ramp wearing ties and carrying clipboards to make sure Mr. Parker gets his "on time". It was about him. "I am going to..." Can't anyone find a muzzle for this guy?
 
...."as a Navy pilot, because you need to plant the aircraft down firmly and really get on the brakes. There is a lot of radio traffic, and it can get intense."  Now there is a real "there I was moment". Does he talk with his hands also? Put a muzzle on it. 
 
He reminds me a bit of another self-promoter, J Mac. A few years ago I saw a post by a civilian pilot who had posted that "a real Airbus pilot" had spoken to a gathering of civilian pilots. At the time that I read this Mac only had eight years with the company. 
 
cactusboy53 said:
My thoughts, Johnny Boy? You are a Web Board bully, a LIAR, a cheat, a thief, and one of the poorest escuses for a human being that holds a aviation position with this company.

Your group has lied, persecuted, prosecuted and attempted to break our will and resolve. You have attempted to evade your obligation, and replace it with a date of hire seniority list under the claim that the AWA pilots are attempting to jump seniority by placing a new hire with a pilot of many years AND NOW your EPSIC is NOW arguing to place a "third list" pilot in front of a former AWA pilot with years of seniority. Your mission: ABJECT FAILURE.

Your now in another process that requires you to AGAIN abide by product of that process. I have NO DOUBT that if the list is not what you deem fair, you will AGAIN cry foul, seek counsel from the CIRP (again), and conger up some hair brained plan to again attempt to circumnavigate the list.

Savvy?
Giving up such a huge windfall can be quite stressful!  
 
cactusboy53 said:
My thoughts, Johnny Boy? You are a Web Board bully, a LIAR, a cheat, a thief, and one of the poorest escuses for a human being that holds a aviation position with this company.

Your group has lied, persecuted, prosecuted and attempted to break our will and resolve. You have attempted to evade your obligation, and replace it with a date of hire seniority list under the claim that the AWA pilots are attempting to jump seniority by placing a new hire with a pilot of many years AND NOW your EPSIC is NOW arguing to place a "third list" pilot in front of a former AWA pilot with years of seniority. Your mission: ABJECT FAILURE.

Your now in another process that requires you to AGAIN abide by product of that process. I have NO DOUBT that if the list is not what you deem fair, you will AGAIN cry foul, seek counsel from the CIRP (again), and conger up some hair brained plan to again attempt to circumnavigate the list.

Savvy?
 
Bullseye
 
cactusboy53 said:
My thoughts, Johnny Boy? You are a Web Board bully, a LIAR, a cheat, a thief, and one of the poorest escuses for a human being that holds a aviation position with this company.

Your group has lied, persecuted, prosecuted and attempted to break our will and resolve. You have attempted to evade your obligation, and replace it with a date of hire seniority list under the claim that the AWA pilots are attempting to jump seniority by placing a new hire with a pilot of many years AND NOW your EPSIC is NOW arguing to place a "third list" pilot in front of a former AWA pilot with years of seniority. Your mission: ABJECT FAILURE.

Your now in another process that requires you to AGAIN abide by product of that process. I have NO DOUBT that if the list is not what you deem fair, you will AGAIN cry foul, seek counsel from the CIRP (again), and conger up some hair brained plan to again attempt to circumnavigate the list.

Savvy?
 
 
"third lister"... that term and the term "Nic" are both conspicuously absent from any enforceable contract, but that doesn't stop the West from begging the BOA to implicitly assume those terms are useful (to advance the West unfairly relative to the other two groups).   Good luck!!
 
CAVOK said:
Can't anyone put a muzzle on that corporate executive stalker? Doesn't he have any friends that will tell him to shut up?
That guy talks to sock puppets.

Based upon his bio, resignation in leu of termination is a process he is quite familiar with.

Of course, after not even attempting a carrier in aviation his raging success in a Mesa -1900 then America West Airlines is quite the princess story for all to envy.
 
cactusboy53 said:
My thoughts, Johnny Boy? You are a Web Board bully, a LIAR, a cheat, a thief, and one of the poorest escuses for a human being that holds a aviation position with this company.
Your group has lied, persecuted, prosecuted and attempted to break our will and resolve. You have attempted to evade your obligation, and replace it with a date of hire seniority list under the claim that the AWA pilots are attempting to jump seniority by placing a new hire with a pilot of many years AND NOW your EPSIC is NOW arguing to place a "third list" pilot in front of a former AWA pilot with years of seniority. Your mission: ABJECT FAILURE.
Your now in another process that requires you to AGAIN abide by product of that process. I have NO DOUBT that if the list is not what you deem fair, you will AGAIN cry foul, seek counsel from the CIRP (again), and conger up some hair brained plan to again attempt to circumnavigate the list.
Savvy?
You need to take a break from the board. Over the top strange.
 
 
Seham, Seham, Meltz & Petersen, LLP
Attorneys At Law
199 Main Street, 7th Floor
\White Plains, NY 10601

October 8. 2015
VIA EMAIL AND
FIRST CLASS MAIL
 
Edgar James, Esq.
James & Hoffman, P. C.
1130 Connecticut Ave.. N.W.. Suite 950
Washington,DC 20036
 
Re: Dissolution of the West Pilots Merger Committee
 
Dear Mr. James:
 
Via the Protocol Agreement, the Allied Pilots Association (APA) devised a process
whereby the US Airline Pilots Association (USAPA) would be de-certified on the
threshold of seniority list integration (SLI) arbitration and partially replaced by an APA  created
West Pilots Merqer Committee.
 
The West Committee now refuses to acknowledge that it is bound by the very Protocol
Agreement  that gave it birth and, more specifically, paragraph 2.b of the Agreement,
which establishes three certified pilot seniority lists as defining the status quo in effect at
American Airlines and US Airways on December 9,2013. (SLI Hearing Transcript of
September 29, 2015 at 128-3 I ).
 
Paragraph 2.b's recognition of three certified pilot seniority lists as defining the status
quo is not merely a statement of "fact" as you represented at the September 29tn hearing.
(ld.at132). Rather,it is a legal contract that forms the bed rock of theProtocol
Agreement.
 
By its own design, APA is the sole remaining certified collective bargaining
representative party to the SL.l process. For APA to stand by and knowingly permit an APA-created agent to subvert this process would constitute an act of bad faith. If the West Committee refuses to acknowledge the Protocol Agreement, then APA must dissolve the Committee and prohibit its further participation in these proceedings. APA's inaction in this matter is unacceptable and threatens to have a devastating impact on the
MDA pilots we represent and on East pilots in general.
 
Background
 
APA has a storied reputation for exploiting mergers to the advantage of incumbent
American pilots. Indeed, APA and APFA's aggressive stripping of the seniority of their
TWA counterparts prompted the enactment of the federal legislation that now mandates
the Allegheny-Mohawk process.
 
In negotiating the Protocol Agreement, APA engineered an SLI process in which it would
be the sole union party during the arbitration proceeding. Moreover, at a time when APA
had no duty of fair representation obligations with respect to the former America West
pilots, it negotiated for the future creation of a West Pilots Merger Committee as a
participant in the SLI proceedings.
 
In our view, the Protocol Agreement derogated from intent of McCaskill-Bond by permitting one union representative to effectively de-certify, and divide the constituency
of, its adversary. It was a bad deal of questionable legality. All the more important,
therefore, that the off-setting benefit negotiated on behalf of US Airways pilots, in
exchange for these concessions, be honored and enforced by APA.
As you have recognized,the status quo embodied in the three certified lists for December
9,2013, accurately reflects the facts on the ground in view of the failed operational
integration of US Airways and America West.
 
Under both ALPA Merger Policy and the terms of the Transition Agreement (TA)
negotiated between ALPA and those two airlines, ALPA's seniority integration
bargaining proposal embodied in the Nicolau Award could only be implemented as part
of a single collective bargaining agreement merging the pilot operations of the two
airlines. Adoption of a single collective bargaining agreement, however, required prior
approval of both the East and West MEC's and a majority ratification vote by their
respective pilot groups. ALPA was never able to obtain implementation of its seniority
integration bargaining proposal because the East MEC and the East Pilots refused to
consider any single collective bargaining agreement that incorporated the ALPA proposal
embodied in the Nicolau Award.
 
USAPA was conceived as a means of resolving the AlPA-created impasse. USAPA
recognized that breaking that impasse would require it to reject the East Pilots' pure date of-hire position and forfeit the East Pilots' right under ALPA Merger Policy to retain
control of all East flying in perpetuity.
 
While the other job classifications on the property - Flight Attendants, Fleet Service,
Mechanics, Dispatchers - implemented pure DOH seniority integration, USAPA stood
alone in forbidding itself to follow this approach. Moreover, this determination to steer a
middle course was baked right into its Constitution and Bylaws, which mandated that any
seniority integration provide for conditions and restrictions that "preserve each pilot's un merged
career expectations." (USAPA Constitution Section g.D).
 
APA's insistence on injecting an independent West Committee into the process
undermined USAPA's ability to pursue a compromise approach on behalf of all US
Airways pilots and introduced a new intransigent party that continues to insist on a result
that could never have been implemented at US Airways. The quid pro quo for USApA's
concessions was the acceptance of the December 9,2013 certified pilots lists as
representing not just the "fact" of then-current operations, but the legal definition of the
status quo as agreed to by the parties.
 
Since APA is the sole remaining union party to the Protocol Agreement by its own
design, it would constitute bad faith of the worst kind to enforce only those terms of the
Agreement for which it negotiated and not those negotiated by USAPA on behalf of the
US Airways pilots. APA must demand that the West Committee acknowledge that it is
bound by the Protocol Agreement and that it withdraw submissions to the arbitration
panel that fail to reflect East pilot seniority as defined by the December 9,2073 East pilot
seniority list.
 
In a related matter, we observe that, not withstanding the fact that the APA maintains that
the applicability of Letter G to MDA pilots is "under review," APA's indecision is being
referenced by the West Committee as a means to undercut the MDA pilots' seniority
rights. (Tr.22l). The damage arising from APA's purported indecision continues to
grow. We consider APA's inaction in these matters to constitute bad faith.
 
 
Lee Seham
 
 
Cc: Arbitrator Dana E. Eischen
 
Arbitrator Ira F. Jaffe
 
Arbitrator M. David Vaughn
 
 
Paul D. Jones, Esq.
 
Jeffrey R. Freund, Esq.
 
Wesley Kennedy, Esq.
 
William Wilder
 
I suppose it was too much to ask to just let the process play out and let the arbitrators sort this out.
 
A320 Driver said:
I suppose it was too much to ask to just let the process play out and let the arbitrators sort this out.
When a party to the process says they are not bound by the agreement, which would allow the arbitrators to "sort this out", it is too much to ask. 
 
 
Whether we're bound by the agreement or not, frankly, is not for me to say.”

Mr. Jeff Freund, attorney for the west pilots quote and comment to the MB SLI BOA
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top