AAA ALPA Thread 9-7 to 9-13

[Phoenix]

So what you're saying is that the new USAPA believes it can rewrite that which is not rewritable? Well, that's going to be a problem with the AWA pilots and trust me, we'll do something about that. Secondly, the law is going to be a bit of a problem for USAPA if anything is done that directly or indirectly undermines USAPA's inherited obligations. Ergo, Nic is untouchable and that's not an opinion of a newly licensed attorney, but rather from a respected firm that has successfully litigated in this field for quite a while. I suggest that you read the Seham letter again.

You can't get Prater to sign the Nic seniority award. What makes you think you can get the officers of USAPA to sign it? What are you gonna do? Refuse to pay dues and go into bad standing?

Why don't you donate a couple hundred bucks to USAPA and then we can all vote on what constitutes unionism, and what constitutes oportunism.

 

[Phoenix]

Take it easy on Junebug. Public math is hard.

In fairness, "a majority of eligible voters" would be 2601 (according to Junebugs numbers--but those numbers are NOT accurate). So with Junebugs example, at least 2601 votes would have to be cast and it would take as little as 1151 USAPA votes to win.

Count on ALPO pulling out all the stops. And keep your pets inside at night, the weather can be harsh.

We already know you are a liar, Junebug, thanks to your repeated lies about seeing the Wilson poll results.

Now we know you are dumber than dirt. The rambling summary of NMB procedures you posted is absolute nonsense, and comes after multiple explanations of the correct procedures on this board. It isn't that difficult to grasp, so read carefully:

We need 50% + 1 to trigger a representational election. Got that?

In the representational election, if 50% + 1 cast ballots, then the union that receives the most votes is the winner. Got it?

If USAPA receives 2000 votes and ALPA receives 1700, then USAPA wins. Memorize the following:

If a majority of eligible voters in the craft or class vote for representation, then the organization that receives the majority of the votes cast "wins" the election.


No wonder your bretheren didn't want you in a leadership role. You're not intelligent enough. :down:

 

[BottomFeeder]

And the Wilson poll says you're going to cave!!

JuneBug

Your MEC need to use the Wilson Poll back during your last contract.
They would have found out just how little you guys think your worth. :down:
Seeing that your membership vote to accept it after the MEC passed it down as a TA. :down:

So what's your excuse for the bottom of the industry contract?

jLj

 

[AWA320]

The word "pole", are you making a "funny", just like U-Turn did weeks ago? Do you think the AAA Wilson poll is poking a pole at you? In that case, the context is missing. or, are you simply peeved that U-Turn continues to launch very effective salvos on you and your cronies?

I was being silly using pole as opposed to poll. Now as for uturn GMAFB!!! Uturn couldn't convince this pilot group water is wet. Uturn, a recalled rep and a very soon to be retired recalled former MEC chairman with no crediability. Real effective...

 

[dariencc]

Take it easy on Junebug. Public math is hard.

In fairness, "a majority of eligible voters" would be 2601 (according to Junebugs numbers--but those numbers are NOT accurate). So with Junebugs example, at least 2601 votes would have to be cast and it would take as little as 1151 USAPA votes to win.

Count on ALPO pulling out all the stops. And keep your pets inside at night, the weather can be harsh.

Your right. That's the point I was clumsily trying to make.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Junebug's numbers for decertification are inaccurate. USAPA knows exactly the number of cards it needs to force an election and it's much lower than JuneBug indicates. Interestingly, AWA pilots are submitting cards to USAPA.

In regard to the number of cards USAPA needs to force an election, it is 50% +1 of the total pilot voting population. The NMB will determine the pool of eligible pilot-voters from which this number is derived. This number includes, all active pilots East and West, furloughed pilots not working for another airline, pilots on medical leave and LOA or military leave. The MDA pilots and J4J pilots may or may not be included, that will be determined by the NMB - therefore it is critical that MDA and J4J pilots submit Authorization Cards.

Separately, according to the September 7, 2008 AWA Hotline, "Management expects to have exhausted the (US Airways) furlough list at some point in October and go into hiring mode around November 1, 2007. The MEC has heard estimates of hiring approximately 450 new-hire pilots by the end of 2008 (due to US Airways East attrition)."

Finally, the Company has hired 11 new pilots, which will be based in PHL on the EMB-190.

Regards,

USA320pilot

 

[Ardenian]

And HH and Garland are best buddies too!!!

Not quite accurate. HH has seen Garland backtrack too many times to fall for his posturing.

 

[luvn737s]

His thread was nonsense. He can't grasp that once we get 50% + 1 to call for an election, we do not need 50% + 1 of the pilot group to win the election. All we need is a majority of votes cast. If we win 1700 to 1600, we win the election. We do not, as he stated need 2462 out of 2513 East votes in the election. The man is dense. No wonder the west union wanted nothing to do with him.

There is no intelligent life in Tempe.

Do you know the difference between majority and plurality? Look it up.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Ain't that the truth!!! I for one would love to see them get it because my name would be at the very top of the law suit against this faction. Question, Mr Bradford why did you choose NOW to start your union and not after the LOA 93 cram down?? Well sir because we are attempting to get out of our obligations in BINDING ARBITRATION!! How sir do you plan to represent the pilots of both Phoenix and Las Vegas without any reps from those bases?? Well we feel that they don't need local representation this way we can force what ever we want on them. Sir how do you plan to deal with the very real fact that the west pilots will oppose your every move, this would be more like Eastern/CAL all over again?? We feel that we can win the west pilots over with long term instability.

This has the potential to get fun!

I wish you guys would read my posts. There will be no base reps. Thats easy. Now, your block reps will have approximately 300 pilot constiuents. Those pilots could come from one base, or all bases. That is how all pilots are represented. I have said before, every one will be represented. It's your choice to either participate or not. This is not ALPA representation by seat position or base. Quite simple really. Is that what you can't figure out? I have posted this before.

Why now? Once again it's simple. Unity. For the first time in 20 years this pilot group is more unified than it ever has been. My reason for supporting USAPA is to see ALPA removed from the property. So why now again? USAPA only gets one shot a year at NMB filing. Why waste it? Look how we're doing? Oh that's right, you already know we only have a small minority of cards. Please keep thinking that.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

and Garland needs to position himself to be one of the "believers" who can be elected when it happens.

The proposal is the current ALPA leadership must wait one year before becoming eligible for running for office. I doubt his block would elect him to anything. IMO. I personally support the proposal.

 

[Phoenix]

Do you know the difference between majority and plurality? Look it up.

Get your dictionary if you like, but when you come back read carefully..


If a majority of eligible voters in the craft or class vote for representation, then the organization that receives the majority of the votes cast "wins" the election.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Do you know the difference between majority and plurality? Look it up.

Don't need to look it up. Does that mean the west is resurrecting AWAPA? That is great!! It means ALPA will be off the property once and for all. Please send in your cards and get you guys on the ballot. ALPA, AWAPA, USAPA. I think ALPA is toast in this scenario.

 

[Junebug172]

Junebug's numbers for decertification are inaccurate.

Those are not my numbers.

But you're wrong, as usual.

They are accurate.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Since the East agreed to a binding arbitration and since the successor union will inherit the executory obligations from the previous union, I presume USAPA will have a provision in their bylaws to support and defend the Nicolau Award, right? I mean, no fences, no restrictions - just an unconditional implementation of Nicolau along with the CBA. Am I right?

Interesting questions. As of now Nic is just a piece of paper on Praters desk. We haven't inherited anything ....yet. However, if you read the veiled threat in a later post on this thread concerning a plurality by the west, you would have USAPA, ALPA and the west enitity (AWAPA?), to me that guarantees ALPA's removal. I wonder who Prater would take his wrath on? USAPA or the west enitity?

After talking to a number of MDA guys, I think the list will get tossed by their lawsuit. But then thats my opinion. And yes it's true the amended lawsuit has been upped to $175M. ALPA is on record to admitting to $127m and tried to settle. New evidence raised the ante. I am now forming a new opinion on Nic. If it lives I win. If it dies, I win again. Beginning to like my odds and still get a new union out of it. Ask me again later when new information becomes available.

 

[Junebug172]

We already know you are a liar, Junebug, thanks to your repeated lies about seeing the Wilson poll results.

Hey, an east rep backed me up on that Wilson poll. Imagine that. And to add icing to that cake, USA320Pilot said he was 100% correct.

And by the way. I called my EVP, my connection on the EC, the MEC (both sides), every rep I know, every former rep I know, USA320Pilot's mom, AWA320, Prater, Rice, Parker, and Comstock to verify this info.

------------------------------

BOS Pilots,

Head's up, and you're hearing it first.

In my view:

1. The Rice Committee is going nowhere in formulating a "consensual solution" acceptable to either East or West. They're on square one, and will remain there.

2. As a result of ALPA National's poll of US Airways pilots, Prater, the Executive Council and the Rice Committee now believe that the East pilots have a price at which they can be bribed to accept the Nicolau Award.

3. The AWA Executive Vice President (EVP), representing them on the Executive Council (we don't have an EVP of our own, because some members of our MEC voted for an Atlantic Southeast pilot instead), will be bringing a Resolution before the EC later this month that will force the immediate release of the Nicolau Award.

4. As we on the East are no longer participating in JNC negotiations until we reach Pay Parity with the West, ALPA National may be informing us shortly that they intend to negotiate at the JNC in our behalf.

5. The MEC's decision to not follow through with our "Pay Parity Now" Picketing event at the Company's HQ in Tempe was a huge mistake, and will be viewed by Prater, the EC, the West and Doug Parker as a weakening in our resolve to remain a separate operation with a separate, equivalent value contract (after all, the mover of that Resolution voted against taking our fight to PHX, and the seconder's votes weren't even counted, as he neither showed up nor left his proxy).

I see a sellout coming, and I'm no longer sure who is really for or against it.

As I've told you, not on my watch. If this MEC doesn't have the fighting spirit to meet all comers in stopping the implementation of the Nicolau Award, even in 100 degree heat in PHX, then I belong in a Union who does.

We shall soon see.

Garland
"You must take the war to the enemy. You must attack and go on attacking all the time."
— Major Willy Omer François Jean Coppens de Houthulst, Belgian Air Service, 37 victories W.W.I..

Then why did you respond with this:

Dear Fellow Pilot,

Garland's comments that attached are 100% accurate and I totally agree with him. Furthermore, his comment that "If this MEC doesn't have the fighting spirit to meet all comers in stopping the implementation of the Nicolau Award, even in 100 degree heat in PHX, then I belong in a Union who does."

For those of you fence sitters, do you want ALPA International Negotiating for you instead of your own pilot group? Or would it be better to have a union that has US Airways pilots negotiating for US Airways pilots?

I know for fact that ALPA is scared about being replaced and I wonder why? It is clear that we are approaching the reconciliation of our problems. What is not clear is who will negotiate for you.

Regards,

Cxxx
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.