AAA ALPA Thread 9-7 to 9-13

[AAA73Pilot]

I hate to break this to you but I look at him like I look at the uturn crowd, usless and uninformed! I saw the wilson pole results AAA and they are nothing like what you two are preaching. You guys are so fractured that there is really no telling what's what but I didn't see this 2400 strong we need a new union crap either...

If you believe USA320, that's your problem. I'm glad you saw the poll. Means you're an MEC member or another ALPA blunder selectively releasing information. But then propaganda is a great thing, isn't it? I have always believed in the big lie theory myself.

You're right about one thing, the east pilot group was so fractured you couldn't get 10 people to agree the sky was blue. But now, we do have a very large block and growing daily, singularly focused to replace ALPA. In the past, ours was a small group. Not anymore. Say what you want, I know just a little bit more than you when it concerns USAPA and our objectives. The public web site has 2298 In the upper right corner. That was on Sept. 5. Guess what? It's more!!

 

[USA320Pilot]

A Message to All AAA and AWA Pilots from Captain Paul Rice - Chairman of the Rice Committee

In his August 18 update to the pilots of the new US Airways, John Prater discussed the work of the committee established by the Executive Council to explore consensual and mutually beneficial solutions—to include both career advancement and substantial economic gain—for both East and West US Airways pilots. We, the members of the Rice Committee, would like to tell you more about our plan, our goals, and the timeline we’ve set for completion of this important work.

The Committee is chaired by ALPA First Vice President Paul Rice (UAL) and includes Captains David Webb (FDX), Ray Miller (NWA), Paul Emmert (ALA), Matt Marsh (CHA), and Larry Schulte (EAL/UAL retired). Over the past few weeks the Committee has met frequently with MEC, Negotiating Committee, and Merger Committee representatives of both pilot groups in Washington and Phoenix. More meetings are scheduled with both pilot groups during the weeks of September 17–21 and 27–30.

The Committee’s approach is straightforward: It is to explore and, if possible, help develop consensual solutions to issues that arose following issuance of the Nicolau seniority integration decision and award. The purpose is to facilitate discussion and agreement between the two groups—not to make decisions for either pilot group.

The Committee has worked quickly to understand the concerns and needs of both pilot groups. This task has required moving beyond easily repeated slogans. Instead, we are looking carefully at hard data, carefully discussing all relevant issues, and committing fully to real problem-solving efforts. The Committee believes firmly that if solutions exist, they must be based on cold, hard facts.

While the following list is not exhaustive, both pilot groups have identified common concerns and questions that fall into the following general categories:

Career advancement: What is the effect of retirement and block-hour growth on a pilot’s ability to progress in seat position, aircraft type, bidding, pay, and retirement earnings?

Career protection: How can pilots best be protected against future company or industry downturns?

Future transactions: If practical solutions to the above questions exist, are they durable, and can they survive future transactions?

Economic gain: How can all US Airways pilots realize the long-overdue substantial improvements to pay, benefits, and work rules that they deserve?

To encourage open discussion, the Rice Committee for the most part has met separately with each group. While representatives of both pilot groups have discussed all the key issues, they have presented their respective positions vigorously and professionally, without conceding their main points. Although important differences continue to exist in the views of the two pilot groups’ representatives, you should know that the first set of meetings has been constructive and has resulted in agreement on the following important procedural steps. Both groups of representatives:

Visualize similar timelines for making progress in the Rice Committee and communicating with members.

Agree on the magnitude of improvements that will be required to complete a new pilot working agreement.

Agree that we need additional information from management regarding its future plans for system flying, new equipment, and staffing. The committee has already requested this information.

Agree that added member polling regarding bargaining would be useful to develop comparable data, and you should expect to be surveyed over the next few months as this process continues.

We would also like you to be aware of another important ALPA initiative that supports some of the work being done by the Rice Committee. This is work undertaken by the ALPA Collective Bargaining Committee (CBC) to identify industry-standard wage, benefit, and work rule patterns that will help the pilot profession achieve vastly improved levels of compensation and quality-of-life contract provisions.

Why is the work of the CBC important here? Bargaining succeeded at many airlines before bankruptcies and federal loan guarantees not only because the company was making money, but also because pilots were unified and ALPA had greater control over the negotiating schedule and timeline than during the bankruptcy and ATSB era. Bargaining did not move forward unless management agreed to our demands. In bankruptcy, contract patterns were negatively impacted when financially weak carriers (like US Airways and United) filed for court protection.

Rather than pilots and ALPA controlling the negotiating schedule, the companies decided when to file for bankruptcy and to threaten action under a Section 1113 motion. The court had the power to rule when those terms would be put in place if no agreement were reached, meaning that ALPA, along with other unions, lost the ability to control timing to maximize leverage. Likewise, the ATSB had power to withhold loan guarantees if labor did not adhere to its schedule. Once negative contract patterns were set at US Airways and UAL, other companies demanded the same pattern.

We’re in a different environment now, and a new, post-bankruptcy bargaining cycle is already under way with pilot negotiations at Hawaiian Airlines, Alaska, and Continental—three companies with a strong financial performance. United, Delta, and Northwest will follow this initial wave of bargaining.

The US Airways pilot contract, however, is a linchpin for overall success—it is the most important part of the foundation for these efforts to restore our profession and contract standards. With the Company making money and wanting to expand internationally, US Airways pilots are well positioned to succeed, and there is no doubt that major improvements are achievable if we solve our current disagreements and complete bargaining. If we miss this opportunity, it will affect all US Airways pilots for years to come and will also seriously hinder our efforts throughout the industry.

The Rice Committee looks forward to helping to facilitate resolution of the current issues so we can all move our contracts back to their rightful place. We’re going to continue to work hard and will plan to report back to you in the next 30 days. As we said up front, we’re concerned with both career advancement and substantial economic gains in our contracts.

Fraternally,

Paul Rice

 

[AAA73Pilot]

deleted

 

[USA320Pilot]

AWA320,

AWA320 pilot said: "hate to break this to you but I look at him like I look at the uturn crowd, usless and uninformed! I saw the wilson pole results AAA and they are nothing like what you two are preaching. You guys are so fractured that there is really no telling what's what but I didn't see this 2400 strong we need a new union crap either."

USA320pilot comments: I have spoekn directly to members of the EC and the US Airways MEC. Here is what I know to be fact:

- The polling results do not hurt the East pilots cause and in fact help them.

- Specific information is still confidential because the MEC's have not been briefed by Phil Comstock of the Wilson Center on the interpretation of the data.

- In conversations with some of the Eats pilots, there are some, but not many, that would accept the Nicolau award if they were given a raise. But, this number is getting smaller everyday as the 517 gets smaller. Furthermore, I was told by an EC member this amount is way beyond parity, which once again is clearly not being characterized accurately by the West. Even if one of the East
pilots said this, you know they would try to "spin" this to their advantage.

With all due resepct, people like you and Junebug are purposely misrepresenting information and more accurately your flat out lies are showing your true fear. USAPA has the votes for the NMB order an election and you are now desperate, which is why the West pilots are sending private emails to East pilots with flat out lies.

It's over and you know it because union "imposition" will be here before Christmas!

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Bear96]

The objectives of USAPA are based on representing the pilots at USAirways. No one else!

I think you made a typo.

What you meant to say was, "The objectives of USAPA are based on representing the EAST pilots at USAirways. No one else!"

 

[Bear96]

US AIRWAYS

August 30, 2007

Via Facsimile and U.S. Mail

Bruce York
Director, Representation
Air Line Pilots Association…
RE: Dispute Under the Transition Agreement

Dear Mr. York:

Based on information the Company learned on August 27, a dispute exists under the Letter of Agreement between America West Holdings Corporation, America West Airlines, Inc., US Airways Group, Inc. and US Airways, Inc. (collectively, the "Airline Parties") and the pilots in the service of America West Airlines, inc. and US AIRWAYS, Inc., as represented by Air Line Pilots Association dated September 22005 (the "Transition Agreement").

. . .

Sounds like management is finally beginning to tire of the East pilots' nonsense.

 

[dariencc]

Sounds like management is finally beginning to tire of the East pilots' nonsense.

Holy s**t!!!!!!!!! I guess that means we're in big trouble now, huh?

 

[AAA73Pilot]

With all due resepct, people like you and Junebug are purposely misrepresenting information
Regards,

USA320Pilot

Lets give Junebug credit. He's been our biggest help from the west. I have collected a lot of cards from his posts alone. Even from a fence sitter classmate last week. (see previous posts somewhere) As for AWA320, now thats another story. If he really has seen the Wilson polling, how can that be? I kind of think it's another ALPA blunder. Just one more to add to the list.

 

[Bear96]

Holy s**t!!!!!!!!! I guess that means we're in big trouble now, huh?

Not yet.

But at some point, if you are still carrying on this way, expect some nasty surprises as reality sets in.

 

[dariencc]

Not yet.

But at some point, if you are still carrying on this way, expect some nasty surprises as reality sets in.

Nasty surprises? Anything but that. Ok, I surrender!

Stay tuned, Bear. We have a few surprises of our own.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

I think you made a typo.

What you meant to say was, "The objectives of USAPA are based on representing the EAST pilots at USAirways. No one else!"

You're entitled to your opinion. But my original statement stands. USAPA will represent all USAirways pilots. Not DAL, CAL, UAL ad nauseum. Where each one is hoping for our demise. They may get their wish, but it won't be under an ALPA watch.

 

[Bear96]

Nasty surprises? Anything but that. Ok, I surrender!

Stay tuned, Bear. We have a few surprises of our own.

I'm sure you do. It's great fun watching the East's antics -- er, "surprises."

Keep 'em coming.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Not yet.

But at some point, if you are still carrying on this way, expect some nasty surprises as reality sets in.

Like what? "We're going to receive a letter expressing their outrage?"

 

[USA320Pilot]

MEC CODE-A-PHONE UPDATE - September 7, 2007

This is Arnie Gentile with a US Airways MEC update for Friday, September 7th, with six new items.

Item 1. MEC Chairman Captain Jack Stephan and Vice Chairman Captain Kim Snider were in PHX this week to speak to US Airways new hire pilots who are currently in Basic Indoctrination Class at the training center in PHX. At the same time on Thursday, a US Airways MEC mobile billboard which stated, “US Airways discriminates, East Pilots for Equal Pay Now,†circled Doug Parker’s office at Corporate Headquarters in Tempe, then made its way to the downtown Phoenix business and financial district and Phoenix City Hall. Pictures of the mobile billboard will be posted on the web site and emailed to all pilots.

USA320Pilot comments: How many new hire pilots are there at AWA? What is the cause of the hiring? What's interesting is now that the furlough list is about to be completed USAPA will know exactly the number of cards/votes to replace ALPA, both on the East and West property. Furthermore, the East Flight Training Center is so busy with East pilot upgrade and transition training to higher paying positions new hires are being trained at the West Flight Training Facility. Why? US Airways' pilot attrtion.
The MEC remains focused on “Equal Pay for Equal Work,†as it is the first appropriate step, a starting point on a road to an industry plus contract that needs to recognize the contributions of the US Airways Pilots.

Item 2. The MEC will hold its regular third quarter meeting in Charlotte from Monday, September, 10th through Thursday, September 13th, at the Hilton Charlotte Executive Park located at 5624 Westpark Drive, Charlotte, NC. The phone number for transportation is 704-527-8000. The meeting will convene at 10 a.m. on Monday. All US Airways pilots are encouraged to attend MEC meetings.

The period for pilots in good standing to address the MEC on issues of their own choosing is scheduled for Tuesday, September 11th, at 9:30 a.m. As we did during the second quarter meeting, the MEC would like to accommodate pilots in good standing that are unable to attend the meeting but would like to address the MEC by telephone. If you are interested, the Communications Committee has posted and emailed all pilots a call-in instruction sheet with specific instructions on how you can participate. As always, US Airways pilots in good standing who are at the MEC meeting in person will have the first opportunity to address the MEC, followed by pilots calling on the phone.

Item 3. An election for Legislative Affairs Committee Chairman is scheduled for the third quarter MEC meeting. If you are interested in serving your fellow pilots in any of these positions, please contact your local council representatives or the MEC office at 800-USAIR-MEC to arrange for an interview with the MEC during this meeting.

Item 4. MEC Chairman Captain Jack Stephan had recently sent a letter to ALPA President, Captain John Prater requesting a special meeting of the Executive Council to consider the matter of US Airways receiving a single operating certificate. We believe that this is a violation of the Transition Agreement which requires “separate operations†until the pilot integration has occurred. We initially asked that this dispute be filed back in May, however, because the America West MEC did not support this dispute, it has not been filed.

Subsequently, the company filed a dispute seeking clarification to this issue before surrendering the America West Operating Certificate.

We have now received confirmation that ALPA’s Executive Council will review this subject at its September17th meeting. In particular, they will consider if there can be a dispute if the two MECs can not agree that there is a dispute. If the answer to this first question is yes, then the Executive Council will decide the Association’s position and whether this position constitutes a dispute between the Association and the Airline. If the answer to the second question is yes, then the Association, through the legal department, will proceed to expedited hearings of the dispute with the airline.

USA320Pilot comments: Bear96, according to an AWA pilot:

In an effort to clear the air and move forward with the single certificate, the company has filed its own dispute to be heard by Arbitrator Bloch the week of September 17th. But will it actually be heard by Mr. Bloch or will ALPA take a pass on it, giving it away to the company?

The answer lies with the Executive Council…and our MEC.

From what information we have assembled, Captain Prater sent a letter to both MECs (through their Chairmen) yesterday outlining the two MEC’s differing positions on the operational “single certificate.†This is what we learned:

The East MEC believes that the company is violating the Transition Agreement by proceeding with a single certificate prior to the single contract being ratified and prior to the seniority list being presented. They have made their position clear to their rank and file.

Our MEC disagrees, believing that the use of a single certificate under the present conditions (no contract and no list) is NOT a violation of the TA. Our MEC, however, has NOT made “our†position clear, preferring to keep us all in the dark.

The decision on what happens next belongs to the Executive Council. They are going to decide at their upcoming meeting whether it takes both MECs agreeing that a dispute exists for there to even be a dispute under Section X of the TA. If the EC finds in favor of the East that a dispute actually exists, the EC will then decide if ALPA National is going to pursue a dispute in front of Arbitrator Bloch.

One would have to assume that if the EC finds that it takes “two to tango,†then the company will have no union opposition to its single operating certificate. There will be no ALPA Section X dispute filed and the company’s pre-emptive dispute becomes moot. The company’s dispute goes away and the company is cleared for single certificate take-off (by ALPA, anyway). We understand that both MECs will be allowed to make presentations of their individual cases.

U-Turn has also been told that ALPA Director of Representation Bruce York has informed the company that the fate of ALPA’s side of this Section X dispute will be decided by the Executive Council prior to the scheduled arbitration.

But as we often say at U-Turn, don’t take our word for it. Ask your Reps. And since we know that our Reps monitor U-Turn, just a word of caution: it’s not nice to fool “Mother U-Turn.†Nor is it a good idea to lie to those you claim to represent. If the MEC isn’t up front with us, if we have to present further proof, we will.

Item 5. There have been reports of US Airways ALPA pilots that have unintentionally gone into bad standing. ALPA’s Membership Services Department is not reporting any abnormal issues affecting our pilots in general. If you are experiencing any problems, contact the Membership Service Center at 888-359-2572 option 3. A service representative will review your account and fix any discrepancies.

USA320Pilot comments: More US Airways pilots who can vote and shoot down any agreement that would trigger the Nicolau Award.

Item 6. US Airways Group Inc. named former Northwest executive Robert Isom as chief operating officer. In the new position, Isom will report to President Scott Kirby. Isom, 43, a former Northwest senior vice president for ground operations and airport customer service, most recently was chief restructuring officer for GMAC LLC.

News you can use:

W.A.R. Item 907

Distance Learning, 2007

APU and arrival fuels are areas of greatest fuel savings.

Educate to Vacate:

Another Wide-Body issue: America West Pilots will gain more than 2,373 years of wide-body international Captain time as the US Airways pilots lose 2,373 years.

USA320Pilot comments: Another example of the AWA windfall and why Captain's are in full support of the MEC's actions and will not agree to a joint contract it if triggers the Nicolau Award.

Equal pay for Equal Work:

It has been 7 days since September 1, 2007, when the US Airways MEC designated retro active pay to begin.

Money to be paid to each Group 2 Captain is $336.

Money to be paid to each Group 2 First Officer is $165.

Follow the three-prong approach, fly safe and thanks for listening.

USA320Pilot concludes: AWA320, Cactus Call Sign, and Junebug, especially Junebug, are doing more to help USAPA obtain cards than any other pilots. If an AWA pilot does not like the idea of union "imposition" then you should take you complaint to the AWA MEC and people like the one's I named above.
Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Bear96]

Like what? "We're going to receive a letter expressing their outrage?"

No. You'll simply find yourself working under the Nic list, and a little poorer because of all the assessments your union will have to charge you as a result of all the futile and wasteful litigation you caused.