ALPA Thread 1/10 to 1/17 ALL ALPA/USAPA Discussed Here

[EastUS]

East, you gotta admit that the goats were kind of funny. But for the sake of all readers, please understand that there are some things that must always be kept separate and one of those combinations is baryard animals and adult films. Very very very few comedians can make that sort of combination work, and I think it's safe to say that nobody on this board could ever make that combination something other than...scary...repulsive...yuck.

Mutually contradictory rambling elements good sir. You must be an Alpoid functionary on some lesser level at least....

I'll go with the following though: "But for the sake of all readers, please understand that there are some things that must always be kept separate and one of those combinations is baryard animals and adult films." My only question being: Why did Alpo seek to combine not only those two elements, but supposed "political notions" all together? Should one uncharitably assume that the Alpo crowd consists largely of hopeless morons with goat fetish issues?...It seems unlikely..but you've earlier busied yourself stridently defending drunken pilots at the controls....!? I'm honestly uncertain as to where your moral lines are drawn on anything.

I'm at least momentarilly contemplating keeping my own notions of morality, and not depending on any Alpo inputs

Seriously: Can ANYONE jump up with any compelling argument for placing their futures into the hands of such "geniuses"?

 

[dariencc]

Ummm...that's exactly what happened with Hughes and Cloyd. They were pulled off the airplane by local law enforcement, questioned, and then the case began. So what you're saying is that they should have run.... I see.

Do you have any understanding of the concept of jurisdiction? The police had legal jurisdiction in the MIA Cloyd incident. They had none at LGA, which came under the jurisdiction of the NTSB. If you have any doubt, please contact your own Alpa folks and they will verify it for you.

Good God, man. Why not try basing your arguments on facts for a change, instead of coming off as some pedantic drunk at the bar. :down:

 

[ableoneable]

"Frankly, you are boring the hell out of me, sir."

Can we get back to the regular feces throwing, please.

 

[EastUS]

"Frankly, you are boring the hell out of me, sir."

Can we get back to the regular feces throwing, please.

1) While the first is naturally a matter of great personal import to me...you didn't pay cash for any orchestra seat..and your credit's no good around here

2) If you're into that: Bring your own goat , or at least a monkey .....

 

[luvn737s]

What's actually surprised me, at least somewhat, was Prater-and-the-Punks amazing "ability" to do NOTHING for over half an entire year that might well have ameliorated the circumstances somewhat. That alone, would give ANY thinking person some proper skepticism on Alpo and it's "processes". A vast "Brain Trust"....these clowns ain't I mean..c'mon..give any proper opportunist/politican access to Alpo's wealth and resources for even a month..and they'd have felt compelled to at least come up with a proper dog and pony show All we've yet seen's a single goat

You must mean that Prater should have followed through with his veiled threat to put the AAA MEC into trusteeship. Yes the east has enjoyed the soft glove treatment from both ALPA and Parker, to the detriment of all. And still no one understands the pain that the east has been through.

Brings a tear to these wrinkly old eyes. I hope UA has more sympathy for your plight.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Do you have any understanding of the concept of jurisdiction? The police had legal jurisdiction in the MIA Cloyd incident. They had none at LGA, which came under the jurisdiction of the NTSB. If you have any doubt, please contact your own Alpa folks and they will verify it for you.

Good God, man. Why not try basing your arguments on facts for a change, instead of coming off as some pedantic drunk at the bar. :down:

Yes I do understand jurisdiction; a lot more than you do or probably ever will.

NTSB jurisdiction at an accident scene is not exclusive. It only took me a few minutes to find this link: http://frwebgate6.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/w...action=retrieve

Pay particular attention to this tidbit. I added the emphasis:

"(3) This section and sections 1113, 1116B, 1133, and 1134( a) and
( c)-(e) of this title do not affect the authority of another department,
agency, or instrumentality of the Government to investigate an accident
under applicable law or to obtain information directly from the parties
involved in, and witnesses to, the accident. The Board and other
departments, agencies, and instrumentalities shall ensure that
appropriate information developed about the accident is exchanged in a
timely manner."

I know it might upset your ego, but even pilots are not in an immunity bubble when at work - they're just not that special. I also found this interesting link. It doesn't have any citations of authority, but nevertheless the author's statements are in line with that is common knowledge. Scroll down to the "Law Enforcement Response": http://www.policelink.com/training/article...-patrol-officer

Update...one last item, and it was sort of the obvious one at that! Don't forget 14CFR91.17 which says: "© A crewmember shall do the following:
(1) On request of a law enforcement officer, submit to a test to
indicate the alcohol concentration in the blood or breath, when--
(i) The law enforcement officer is authorized under State or local
law to conduct the test or to have the test conducted; and
(ii) The law enforcement officer is requesting submission to the
test to investigate a suspected violation of State or local law
governing the same or substantially similar conduct prohibited by
paragraph (a)(1), (a)(2), or (a)(4) of this section."

So I'd say yes...that if a cop happens upon an accident scene, then there is absolutely nothing in the Federal statutes that would stop the officer from detaining a pilot and investigating provided, of course, that the threshold requirements of the 4th and 5th Amendments are met.

 

[EastUS]

You must mean that Prater should have followed through with his veiled threat to put the AAA MEC into trusteeship. Yes the east has enjoyed the soft glove treatment from both ALPA and Parker, to the detriment of all.

There was about as much chance of that happening as...you do the math. Imho: the ONLY thing that "might" (a huge "might") have saved Alpo was for some actual redress to the Nic absurdity. Anything else = Alpo's toast. Anyway: What's your supposed "point"?.... "to the detriment of all."...? Hmmm..(checks upward mobility/regaining of left seats/120+ new hires out east)...never mind..I see your "point" now...."all" are suffering. The east really "should" have bought into Alpo's amazingly brilliant little package....Shucks..we could now all be working for the same pitiful money out here without even the attrition gains. I know, I know = The Mighty Prater/Alpo would have secured an industry leading/magical-mystery-tour/world's best-ever/great "contract"..which, if you actually believe...I've got some parcels of questionable "beachfront" property that I'm willing to buy and immediately sell to you....Good view...at least at low tide. All Alpo's got left is to delay to the max extent possible (which really helps the line pilots, which is naturally their main concern...yeah), and then pull some questionable "contract" outta' their hats before the election. Imho?: It won't pass, and they'll properly then be toast...good riddance. The only other possibility at this point's a merger/sale/etc possibly being worked on as we speak. Alpo's quite likely to try some serious treachery if that opportunity is afforded them prior to decert. Don't get all lighthearted and fainting with joy should that happen, as such would very probably be manipulated to benefit the larger Alpo carrier, and not the "huge bastion" of a whole 1700-1800 AWA pilots.

It's my earnest feeling that you folks out there sadly just don't have any apparent "clue" as to how this is actually played in "the big leagues", where mega-millions are at stake, pilots mean nothing, nor do any employees, and the great "god" money is all that speaks...and it speaks as loudly in Herndon as elsewhere.

For months after May..most of what was "heard" from the west was concerning a "RIghteous Position"..countless variations of "It's OVER!!"..and even one hopeless moron tossing in "Booshaka!!" as I best recall. You folks honestly seemed to consider everything a "done deal". When that proved at least iffy...the tirade continued undaunted, but changed coloration somewhat. I mean..be serious..there were even such Koolaide consumers as to be fretting over a freakin' callsign. There was evident "Faith" that either the Mighty Alpo, or the "mighty management" or some courtroom father-figure, perhaps even Santa Claus himself, was going to come in and instantly grant you all your wishes. Well..Grow Up..life isn't like that.

 

[Cactus737]

The goat video was produced by one of our "unique" pilots. He holds no ALPA position, and I don't think he ever has. He's made videos bashing the MEC too. His videos are at least as "unique" he is. FWIW - I wouldn't elect him as my spokesperson. But he is former Eastern pilot who struck Lorenzo and has the battle pin to prove it. Most guys here watch his videos solely for the entertainment value. But - he is on board with the "destroy USAPA at all costs" program that the 1800 other AWA pilots are all on board wtih.

I love the discussion about "moral" and "fair" when it comes to the Nicolau Award. BTW - how many of you guys have even READ the thing? Or are you just relying on your MEC's account of it, seeing as how they've been so honest with you all along. Anyhow, how "moral" is it for you guys to IMPOSE your one-sided view of what's fair on us? No hearing, no exhibits, no arguments, no third-party decision - just YOUR skewed & biased opinion that you attempt to FORCE it on us. Isn't that what terrorists do - impose their religious beliefs on the rest of the world by use of force? Maybe we should call it OSAPA.

BTW - something funny I noticed about the OSAPA by-laws. No seniority-block representation! There is the first of many promises that OSAPA will break. Fear of our LAW SUIT I imagine drove that change. That won't be the only thing they reneg on. They HAD to publish the C&BL before the vote, but they can wait to reneg on the DOH promise AFTER the vote. My guess is that the best they can do and survive litigation is Nic with some short term fences. Frankly, I'm more concerned with OSAPA's ability to deliver on a contract or enforce one for that matter. Even assuming OSAPA is stupid enough to try for DOH, it will require a contract to cement. How long is that going to take? What piece of garbage contract are you willing to accept in order to screw us?

 

[WCT]

As an outside observer I fail to see what the Cloyd case and the LGA incident have to do with the situation at hand.

Every time I read this thread my respect for pilots diminishes as I've observed CSR's, Rampers, Ticket agents, F/A's. almost any airline employee conduct themselves better than this bunch of spoiled brats. You all should be ashamed of yourself. Doug Parker must have a Woody the size of the Empire State Building from watching you self destruct.

Self destruct? You better believe it! And US other employees have nothing to do but watch on the sidelines.

 

[AWA320]

As an outside observer I fail to see what the Cloyd case and the LGA incident have to do with the situation at hand.

Every time I read this thread my respect for pilots diminishes as I've observed CSR's, Rampers, Ticket agents, F/A's. almost any airline employee conduct themselves better than this bunch of spoiled brats. You all should be ashamed of yourself. Doug Parker must have a Woody the size of the Empire State Building from watching you self destruct.

And the money too that he's saved as a result of the east spoiled childrens club

 

[luvn737s]

 

[aquagreen73s]

This goes equal for the west "children" who taunt, gloat and otherwise engage in unprofessional behavior.

Unprofessional and unproductive behavior has run roughshod over any chance for meaningful compromise and actually gaining a few dollars for both sides.

Come on, Piney - meaningful compromise? From the East? Are you kidding? Why not just wish for a meaningful compromise with every other entity under the sun which subverts the rule of law and promotes chaos over discourse? No, I can't sit here and let you try to lower the West down to the East's level. There is one party nearly 100% at fault and it's NOT the West.

Furthermore, concerning the LGA/Miami discussion, you must not have read the stone throwing in glass houses started once again by an Eastie. It's beyond comprehension why some would dig up the Miami incident in light of LGA. Like Miami, the actions in LGA were indefensible, period.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

FYI:


Thank you for calling in, this is the USAPA phone message for Tuesday, January 15th 2008.

Your USAPA volunteers continue their work to build the better union we all deserve. As mentioned earlier, we firmly believe that USAPA has become the only means by which the US Airways/America West merger can be completed. The existing bargaining agent is mired in an uncertain process that has proven to be a detriment to both pilot groups.

We are happy to report that the USAPA office lease has been signed for our preferred facility just west of the South Park Mall in Charlotte. This is the facility described in an earlier message that has an internet backbone facility on-site. To be in the same building with huge amounts of reliable bandwidth provides USAPA with many state-of-the-art options to better serve the US Airways pilots.

As mentioned in the last message, a billboard in Charlotte will soon sport a new USAPA look. The billboard is on the west side of the Billy Graham Parkway in Charlotte between I-85 and the employee lot turnoff. This billboard is possible as a result of an incredibly generous donation by one of your fellow pilots who underwrote a significant portion of the expense.

A USAPA road-show will roll into Charlotte on February 8th 2008. We have reserved the auditorium upstairs above the food court for this event. USAPA officers, legal staff and volunteers will be available to meet with you and answer your questions. Also available will be Harvey Watt and Empowered Benefits Inc. of CLT to make presentations on insurance. Please stop by to get updated USAPA stickers, membership pins and one of our new badge lanyards. Pizza will be provided at lunchtime. We look forward to seeing you there.

In closing, we’d like to repeat the words of USAPA attorney Lee Seham where he said,

“The intelligence, experience, and resources to manage a successful union already exist within the US Airways pilot group. Those who stridently deny this fact are, in our view, both denigrating their fellow pilots and engaging in fear tactics.â€￾

Thanks again for calling in and thank you for your continuing support.

 

[aquagreen73s]

FYI:

Forget about office space and the rest of the happy talk, when is usapa going to reply to the Abrams letter? I REALLY REALLY look forward to reading Seaham's response.

 

[hp_fa]

Unprofessional and unproductive behavior has run roughshod over any chance for meaningful compromise and actually gaining a few dollars for both sides.

Tell me this, isn't the time for compromise before you put the issue before the arbitrators? Didn't Nicolau, on the record, request a modification of the result sought by the parties and not get one from one of the groups? Didn't an attorney for one of the parties not offer a modification, and immediately began attacking the modification submitted by the other party?

So, in light of all of this, why should there be any attempt to compromise after obtaining a result that the other side could have at least meaningfully tried to avoid?