ALPA Thread 1/18-1/25 ALL ALPA Discussed Here

[end_of_alpa]

In your scenario, then, the company can void the America West contracted pay rates since we (the AWA pilots) are now a combined part of your (the east) union. What you are claiming above is if USAPA takes control the contracts such as the transition agreement and our CBA which the AWA pilots are a party of (using your logic) simply go away. Our CBA, from what I remember, was between the America West pilots and the company. The joint agreement was between the east pilots, west pilots and the company. ALPA was the bargaining agent for both pilot groups. If ALPA goes away, the original parties to the original contracts are still present. I seriously doubt you are correct in your thinking. I am not a lawyer but a little bit of logic is all that is needed to see the gaping holes in USAPA's game plan.

Played the LOGIC game here before. Contract exists, ALPA parties don't.

Look, lets wait for the lawsuit, where you'll find out. Again, whether you think I am correct in my thinking or not is irrelevant.

The courts will confirm who is right. OK?

I'm finished debating over this.

I know how I will vote. You know how you will vote. The tally of total votes will determine USAPA or ALPA.

Let's debate this AFTER the election, OK?

Of course, now they'll be nothing to debate here until then which will obviously dissapoint some here for sure.

Let's say to you I'm right OR wrong, ok? Your choice. I'm still going to vote for one or the other without your permission. So will you. So what?

Again....we wait!

 

[prechilill]

Played the LOGIC game here before. Contract exists, ALPA parties don't.

Look, lets wait for the lawsuit, where you'll find out. Again, whether you think I am correct in my thinking or not is irrelevant.

The courts will confirm who is right. OK?

I'm finished debating over this.

I know how I will vote. You know how you will vote. The tally of total votes will determine USAPA or ALPA.

Let's debate this AFTER the election, OK?

Of course, now they'll be nothing to debate here until then which will obviously dissapoint some here for sure.

Let's say to you I'm right OR wrong, ok? Your choice. I'm still going to vote for one or the other without your permission. So will you. So what?

Again....we wait!

I figured you would just skirt the issue. You can't logically reconcile your position and your above response is not surprising. You believe the transition agreement can be voided. It can't be voided any more than the west's current CBA. You know this, but your emotions will not allow you to accept it.

 

[end_of_alpa]

I figured you would just skirt the issue. You can't logically reconcile your position and your above response is not surprising. You believe the transition agreement can be voided. It can't be voided any more than the west's current CBA. You know this, but your emotions will not allow you to accept it.

You're absolutely right!

After posting NOTHING but cases AND law I'm skirting the issue after over four months of this "debate".

I can't logically reconcile my position with yours.

My response is not surprising.

You said I can't void the transition agreement any more than the wests agreement.

My emotions will not allow me to accept it.

SO WHAT?

I'm still voting the way I want to vote. You can't make me vote any way but my way.

So again, we'll just have to find out, won't we? I guess I'll have to go into meltdown mode since YOU'RE right and I'm WRONG!

 

[prechilill]

You are free to vote as you please. If voting ALPA off the property because you feel you came up short in our arbitration process makes you feel better, go for it.

 

[EastUS]

You are free to vote as you please. If voting ALPA off the property because you feel you came up short in our arbitration process makes you feel better, go for it.

Is "if you feel you came up short" today's "politically correct" soft-sell version of "Final and Binding!"..."It's OVER!"..."Booshaka!"..."You wont even get 200 cards"..."I won the lottery!" and of course; "Ho Ho Ho! St Nic is coming to town!"?..all quotes from west posters throughout this delightfull experience. The west attempts to gin up an "argument" that the east is responding purely through "emotion" rather than "reason"...words fail me. ALPA = Nicolau. It'd take some amazingly perverse fantasy to begin to imagine otherwise....not to mention that abundant reasons to dump Alpo are readilly available otherwise.

No matter. Let's all actually VOTE ...a brand new concept where dealing with ALPA is concerned :blink:

 

[luvn737s]

However, those terms ARE waiveable if the COMPANY wants to waive them. The terms of the agreement expired June 2006, for ALL PRACTICAL purposes.

If that's true (doubtful) than you just made Parker's day. He can open west bases in PHL and CLT, implement Nicolau and never need show up for contract negotiations.

If the message light is blinking on the U-SAPs answering machine it's Parker saying "pound sand".

I think U-SAPs would make a much better Saturday morning kid's cartoon than it does a union. Lots of things blowing up in their face and falling off cliffs.

 

[prechilill]

No matter. Let's all VOTE ...a brand new concept where dealing with ALPA is concerned :blink:

East, can you please state specifically when you have been denied the opportunity to vote while in ALPA? You always write about your lack of representation in ALPA and I am trying to figure out what you are talking about. (Since dropping the elizabethian-poetry style of posting you are much easier to understand, even with the continued over-abundance of smiley faces peppered everywhere.)

 

[sharktooth]

All that said, I think the transition agreement is binding on all parties including USAPA if elected (or as binding as any contractual agreement ever is) and that any signatory (again including USAPA as replacement bargaining agent) could face legal action if they unilaterally (or multilaterally without agreement of all parties) disregard it.

Indeed. No one is excluding agreements already signed for. I know your emotional detachment allows you the luxury of pontificating from on high, but please, stick with the known facts.

So far as I know, not one party has signed on with a merger agreement, yet? Is there something you know the rest of us don't?

 

[sharktooth]

East, can you please state specifically when you have been denied the opportunity to vote while in ALPA? You always write about your lack of representation in ALPA and I am trying to figure out what you are talking about. (Since dropping the elizabethian-poetry style of posting you are much easier to understand, even with the continued over-abundance of smiley faces peppered everywhere.)

Um, the theft of the retirement plan?

 

[EastUS]

East, can you please state specifically when you have been denied the opportunity to vote while in ALPA?

My pleasure...and this is but one, and not a small one = Do you recall the little pension give-away issue? Call me small-minded, but losing over a million dollars through Alpo's capable ministrations, and being denied any vote therein, was mildy irriitating :angry: That do for starters?.. :blink:

 

[CactusFlyr]

A review of the last several months activities, or lack there-of, reveals the following:

1) The JNC East refuses to negotiate for a joint CBA after having agreed to in the interim bargaining agreement with the company and the West pilot group.

2) The East MEC/Merger Committee agrees to final and binding seniority arbitration, but then refuses to acknowledge the award and even sues the West because of it.

3) A splinter group of disgruntled pilots from the East extorts (Gee, Bob, how come you haven't sent your card in yet - I spotted your name on the list!!) the majority into filling out representation cards, and then in a silly act of pomposity, voids the validity of many those cards. And now they are pleading with the government to overlook the rules - "It was just a clerical error."

Does anybody spot a trend here? The East consistently refuses to or is incapable of following the rules!! The track record out there is proven. How far does this nonsense have to go before the majority of the East pilot group realizes the damage they have caused themselves? I won't even mention the harm they have inflicted upon certain pilots on the West.

What will the next act of desperation be?

Who knows, but we need to stop %$#@ around with US East and just staple them all for breach of the TA.

 

[luvn737s]

East, can you please state specifically when you have been denied the opportunity to vote while in ALPA? You always write about your lack of representation in ALPA and I am trying to figure out what you are talking about.

I assume EastUS doesn't like the representitive democracy structure of ALPA. He'd much prefer referrendums on everything?

I never got to vote on whether the office staff should go buy stamps while they're at the post office. :angry:

 

[EastUS]

He'd much prefer referrendums on everything?

On any/all substantive issues? = You bet! The "problem" with that is?...ummm?..What?

I'm sorry if:

1) Dumping Alpa leaves you "out of a job"... :blink:
2) You apparently can't see any benefit in trusting the actual dues-paying membership to determine their futures.

"I never got to vote on whether the office staff should go buy stamps while they're at the post office" Perhaps you should have hauled your own tail to the post office, and actually done something usefull 😉

Let's VOTE!

 

[prechilill]

My pleasure...and this is but one, and not a small one = Do you recall the little pension give-away issue? Call me small-minded, but losing over a million dollars through Alpo's capable ministrations, and being denied any vote therein, was mildy irriitating :angry: That do for starters?.. :blink:

Forgive my lack of knowledge on your history, but did your pension go away because of LOA 93? And if this is when you lost it, how many of the reps which allowed this to happen (including the MEC and LEC) are currently in office?
Besides the pension travesty (which I say with complete sincerity), are there any other issues where you feel denied by ALPA to vote?

 

[CactusFlyr]

My pleasure...and this is but one, and not a small one = Do you recall the little pension give-away issue? Call me small-minded, but losing over a million dollars through Alpo's capable ministrations, and being denied any vote therein, was mildy irriitating :angry: That do for starters?.. :blink:

Did you guys not vote for the jack%^$ that voted on/approved your pension give-away?