ALPA Thread 12/21 to 12/28 ALL ALPA/USAPA here

[sharktooth]

So if your perceived failures of ALPA are so evident to the veteran eye, one has to ask "what took you so long to start USAPA"??? Why the late "enlightenment", years after foreiting your retirement, accepting industry-bottom pay and work rules, or after the destruction of the piloting profession by allowing MDA to fly even one flight? Yep, your transparancy is close to 100% bub.

Actually, there was an attempt for another union in 1992, after ALPA allowed "rigs" to be normalized at US with the rest of the industry. The bottom pay/work rules were imposed, then adopted well after the economy cratered <<<not 9/11>>> and management had found a new toy to cut costs with, bankruptcy.

It seems MDA will win their lawsuits against ALPA, so, justice will be done, finally. I wonder what the assessments will be on that??? When USAPA comes on board, will the pilots have to pay the assessments?

 

[prechilill]

Simply because I couldn't get the guys rallied.

The Nic list did it for me.

Thank you, Mr. First Officer, for your sincere honesty about the underlying motivation of your efforts. USAPA is just a front to make an end-run on our upgrades. We know this on the west but I appreciate you at least sharing your true motivations- USAPA is strictly about seniority as you say. Nic "did it" for you.

Unfortunately, your emotions have overcome logic and again it is apparant why the east failed so miserably in the arbitration process to steal from the AWA pilots. Now we have a renewed effort to attempt what your ALPA clones failed to accomplish through arbitration. This, by your own admission, is what USAPA is all about. But if USAPA gains power they will never accomplish anything with 40% of the pilots at LCC fighting them at every opportunity. Tribal warfare doesn't do much for unity, by the way. You have spent a lot of emotions and money on a losing cause without realizing how you are galvanizing the west pilot group like never before. This is your choice but understand you forfeit any claims of pilot unity with your divisive efforts. Your civil war will cary consequences you clearly do not understand.

 

[prechilill]

Simply because I couldn't get the guys rallied.

The Nic list did it for me. Apparently seniority is where the BS stops.

Transparency huh? Can you see through the 3100 cards?

One more thing, this thread is about LCC and not pilot union politics. If you feel a need to inject your anti-AWA pilot posts there is another thread on this forum. Do not pollute other topics with your USAPA rhetoric. Any further responses I may have will not be on this thread.

 

[prechilill]

I fail to realize stupidity knows no bounds? When you post an ad hominem argument in response to being called out for quoting an ad hominem argument, are you attempting to help me identify that which "knows no bounds"? I think I almost have the concept. Perhaps you could do one more example.

Interpret however you wish, discredit as you see fit- these are the rights of every victim. ad hominem- you kill me! LOL

 

[prechilill]

I fail to realize stupidity knows no bounds? When you post an ad hominem argument in response to being called out for quoting an ad hominem argument, are you attempting to help me identify that which "knows no bounds"? I think I almost have the concept. Perhaps you could do one more example.

Phoenix,
Perhaps you misunderstood me. I wasn't saying you are stupid in my post, I was implying Shaw's political thoughts and beliefs have no bearing on his quote. Merry Christmas. Now, I have to put together a Revel model of a PSA DC-3 my kids gave me for Christmas. It's been almost thirty years since I have tried this so we'll see how this comes out.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

If you understood the profession you would be surprised at what you would agree with. Just the fact that you call yourself "JetMonkey" gives great insight into what guys like Parker, Kirby, Ornstien and the rest have done to your psyche as well as what you think it is you do for a living.

It isn't about East pilots first. Or West pilots for that matter. It's about the profession as a whole. And you guys can't see past what even ALPA has done to the profession much less this Nic mess.

Put your backpack on and go to work. JetMonkey indeed.

Yeah, he needs to be more professional, to have a more polished image. More like those east pilots whose flight bags are adorned with big yellow date of hire and usapa stickers that look like they were made up by the state transportation department for use as construction zone road signs. Now that looks slick, I must admit.

 

[Phoenix]

Phoenix,
Perhaps you misunderstood me. I wasn't saying you are stupid in my post, I was implying Shaw's political thoughts and beliefs have no bearing on his quote. Merry Christmas. Now, I have to put together a Revel model of a PSA DC-3 my kids gave me for Christmas. It's been almost thirty years since I have tried this so we'll see how this comes out.

Two posts for one? Thou dost protest too much.

Use of "your provincial mindset" that couldn't recognize "stupidity knows no bounds" was pretty direct and didn't leave any ambiguity.

You opine that "Shaw's political thoughts and beliefs have no bearing on his quote."? That in itself is the second example I needed to fully understand what "knows no bounds". Thank you for your instructive examples... they were merely examples weren't they? Soon enough you'll make that clear... will you cease your "instructive examples" seeing the lesson is complete or will you repeat an unending pattern?


Be careful with the glue.

 

[cynic]

That's one of my favorite Shaw quotes, it's amazing how often it applies. Almost as amazing as how the people it applies to just don't get it.

 

[nycbusdriver]

One more thing, this thread is about LCC and not pilot union politics. If you feel a need to inject your anti-AWA pilot posts there is another thread on this forum. Do not pollute other topics with your USAPA rhetoric. Any further responses I may have will not be on this thread.

Are you saying this "ALPA Thread 12/21 to 12/28 ALL ALPA/USAPA here" is not about union politics, but about LCC?

Board Manager: Please advise Prechili what this thread is about.

 

[prechilill]

Are you saying this "ALPA Thread 12/21 to 12/28 ALL ALPA/USAPA here" is not about union politics, but about LCC?

Board Manager: Please advise Prechili what this thread is about.

You are such a jokester...

I never said anything about this thread not being about union politics. Maybe you have me confused with someone else? Of course, you seem kind of removed from reality most of the time anyway.

Merry Christmas! Ho Ho Ho

 

[prechilill]

Are you saying this "ALPA Thread 12/21 to 12/28 ALL ALPA/USAPA here" is not about union politics, but about LCC?

Board Manager: Please advise Prechili what this thread is about.

THe board manager moved the post you referenced from another thread since "pilot" was polluting that thread with inappropriate comments...
You guys from the east seem to do that quite a bit- highjacking threads outside of this one to try and get some more jabs in at your fellow pilots on the west. I saw Hawkhunter doing the same thing a while back in a regional forum. Pretty funny.

 

[pilot]

THe board manager moved the post you referenced from another thread since "pilot" was polluting that thread with inappropriate comments...
You guys from the east seem to do that quite a bit- highjacking threads outside of this one to try and get some more jabs in at your fellow pilots on the west. I saw Hawkhunter doing the same thing a while back in a regional forum. Pretty funny.

You mean comments you disagree with are polluting?

You do not have a clue what is about to happen at LCC. And it's not going to be pleasant for East or West. My point is that the East pilots stop the nonsense they have been taking at seniority. That item is not going the way of pay, retirement, work rules, vacation, MDA or anything else we've (YES WE meaning the East pilots) have allowed this company to take from us. Based on ALPA that means we must have another union here. And we will. Whether it succeeds or not will depend on many factors.

Frankly, I don't give a flying squirrels butt if it causes the demise of LCC. If seniority is not allowed to stand then there are a substantial number of East pilots who feel just as I do. And if you don't believe it keep in mind how none of you West boys thought we'd get a vote on ousting ALPA either. 3100 guys proved you wrong.

At some point you will realize the total commitment East has regarding seniority. But I really don't care whether you do or not. Because your feelings or opinions aren't going to stop what is about to happen.

 

[prechilill]

You mean comments you disagree with are polluting?

No, I mean inappropriate comments you have made towards pilots on another thread which had nothing to do with the topic to begin with. Fortunately, the moderator correctly moved your posts onto this thread (hence the confusion by nybusdriver).

 

[traderjake]

Any personal problem with putting you at the very bottom of any seniority list?

If I was the last active pilot on the East list I should be at the bottom of the new list along with the last West pilot.

I was first in line to be furloughed on the East and he was first in line on the West.

It doesn't matter if I was there 15 years and he 15 days.

How is it fair to furlough the majority of the West pilots before you furlough the first East pilot as DOH/LOS would do?

The job you hold means more than the time it took you to get it.

 

[EastUS]

If I was the last active pilot on the East list I should be at the bottom of the new list along with the last West pilot.

I was first in line to be furloughed on the East and he was first in line on the West.

It doesn't matter if I was there 15 years and he 15 days.

How is it fair to furlough the majority of the West pilots before you furlough the first East pilot as DOH/LOS would do?

The job you hold means more than the time it took you to get it.

QUOTE (EastUS @ Dec 21 2007, 06:48 PM)
Any personal problem with putting you at the very bottom of any seniority list?"

I couldn't help but notice that you completely dodged the question, other than by offering up a big "IF"...what a big surprise. For the edification of all present here...DO be so kind as to note your situation should Nic come into play as is, and where you'ld sit on 'the list", approximately at least. If it's the case that your notions are heartfelt, and that you're one that'd seriously suffer from Nic...you've my apologies for making the uncharitable assumption that you're a self interested fellow that's never personally seen a "B" Scale, although were just fine for having one, never furloughed, routinely were among the "Well..we'd better just give the company what they need" group, and are a long time blockholding captain, and would remain so...perhaps even an Alpo lesser player. Call it a wild hunch on my part, but I've serious doubts that the majority of those previous assumptions would prove erroneous😉...Not impossible..I've been wrong before at times. Case in point? = I'm working here 😉

Nice try with your "logic" though...but: It's all "relative" remember...and given that; what exactly makes YOU actually "worth" ANYTHING then?...I'm just ALL ears here "The job you hold" is just a momentary whim of corporate circumstances..you're nothing "special"..you've just been more fortunate in your timing than our more junior folks. You don't personally "Hold" anything btw...you're just occupying a slot that those you eagerly support out west would gladly take from you in an instant, ...and they, or others via another Alpo merger...might just very well take from you over time. (and said job isn't actually "yours" in any case. If you quit right now; that job that "you" supposedly "hold" would almost instantly be filled..so I guess you personally don't much "hold" or own anything, do you?) Hypothetically; as has happened in the past to many; What if your particular aircraft or domicile goes away? Is it then "OK" to plug you into some far more junior "job" then?...OR...just put you on the street..since you would then "hold" no "job" at all?....Who would YOU feel "entitled" to displace/furlough in that case?...Watch it now!..It's all "relative' don't forget 😉 Losing your aircraft or domicle would immediately make you "relatively" completely worthless, and even "relatively jobless" at that moment...wouldn't it? 😉 Don't dare answer in the negative, as that would show some slight comprehension of your personal seniority being something that isn't purely "relative" to an instant snapshot in time 😉..unless it's a snaphot/moment in time that suits you personally...I understand that fully. Consider that perhaps managements in the near future may well become more "creative" with their own notions of snaphots-in-time. "Sorry captain....you're domicile's closing...hit the bricks and have a relatively nice day" 😉 Sound absurdly extreme? Perhaps,..but only for the moment...this very "sanpshot-in-time" 😉

Alpo's proudly created, and is now intent on "relatively" blasting open Pandora's Box. What "demons and pestillence" that come forth from it cannot even begin to be forecast.

Here's a box of cyber-tissues to comfort you if/when another merger under Alpo happens...you'll very probably need them if things go as you wish. I've laid in a stock of ear plugs in anticipation of "squeal like a pig" sounds then coming forth in abundance should that event take place 😉 Your sad "logic" is identical to those out west = "It's ALL just about ME!!" I'm very optimistic that your sort's very much the tiniest minority out east these days. TIme and events will tell.