Hp And Usair Ceo's Backhand Slap Apfa, Apa And Aa

[MCI transplant]

They don't care when nAAtives get shown the door either.

[post="275070"][/post]​

<_< I'm sorry aa! I didn't realize that there were 500+ nAAtives going out the door also!!!! Where are these people being layed off at? TUL??, AFW???, MIA???

 

[FA Mikey]

aafsc:


Tell me, were Air Cal and Trans Carib employees stapled at the bottom as well?

[post="275108"][/post]​

No, there were DOH. TW and Reno were started from Date of acquisition.

 

[FA Mikey]

Their legal duty to protect the native F/As is understandable. But they went way beyond that and used them as furlough fodder. If the two airlines had stayed separate entities with TWA F/As flying the aircraft that yet remain at AA such an arrangement would have been relatively fair. Instead the AA F/As are flying those aircraft and have every job the TWA f/as brought to the merger. No, it was a giant injustice.

[post="274983"][/post]​

It was duty to protect, also at the time there was no sign of layoffs or furloughs. It was never intended as a relief of against furlough of aaers. No one for saw 911 happening or the outcome of it.

How many jobs brought to the merger were eliminated right off with the rejection of leases and closing of TW routes. All that remains are a handful of 75 and some MD80's.

After 911, AA shrunk to smaller than its size prior to the TW buyout. That's why all the TW f/as were furloughed as well as a large number of junior AAers.

 

[JAMAKE1]

Thanks MCI. For the record, I don't work for US, I'm with United. But I am an advocate and proponent of D-O-H. I've been through it personally, in not one, but two mergers.

It is a travesty what happened to the good folks of TW at AA. Especially since there was precedent established with the Air Cal and Trans Carribean integration.

Like I have already mentioned in numerous posts, for all of the things USAir (ways) has blundered over the years, seniority integration was the ONE thing they did right.

And the position that some here on these boards take that the TW'ers would have been without a job anyway, if AA had not acquired them, is, well...NON-SENSE.

In a seniority based system, the MOST fair and equitable way to integrate the ranks is by D-O-H...and it's a position I will debate until I am blue in the face.

:rant:

 

[TWskyliner]

Thanks MCI. For the record, I don't work for US, I'm with United. But I am an advocate and proponent of D-O-H. I've been through it personally, in not one, but two mergers.

It is a travesty what happened to the good folks of TW at AA. Especially since there was precedent established with the Air Cal and Trans Carribean integration.

Like I have already mentioned in numerous posts, for all of the things USAir (ways) has blundered over the years, seniority integration was the ONE thing they did right. 

And the position that some here on these boards take that the TW'ers would have been without a job anyway, if AA had not acquired them, is, well...NON-SENSE.

In a seniority based system, the MOST fair and equitable way to integrate the ranks is by D-O-H...and it's a position I will debate until I am blue in the face.

:rant:

[post="275165"][/post]​

Thank you JAMAKE1 for your support. Even though we (f/a's) lost our careers due to the (dis)integration of our beloved company, it's good to know that our plight is recognized and remembered by the majority of the airline community. These cuts wont heal.

 

[L1011Ret]

Mikey, please don't use 9/11 as an excuse for what happened to the TWAers. The staple occurred well before 9/11. Last I heard there were about 120 757s and S80 from TWA still at AA.

 

[FA Mikey]

Mikey, please don't use 9/11 as an excuse for what happened to the TWAers. The staple occurred well before 9/11. Last I heard there were about 120 757s and S80 from TWA still at AA.

[post="275184"][/post]​

911 is the reson for the furloughs. When the seniority was being settled there was expansion seen for all. The TW people from the buy out were not merged, there were set to start from the begining like every other AA employee before them.


!20 ex tw planes and how many AA planes parked or sold as part of the cutbacks? More than the number of planes brought over from TW.

 

[latreal]

And everybody still feels the same I see. B) Me too!

L1011 you are REAL DRAMATIC! lol

 

[acmech]

DOH is fine when you are talking about two equally old companies when they merge, but not when a relative new company is the aquirer of an older company. DOH would adversly affect the employees at the newer company making the aquisition, therby making it unfair to them. In that case a ratioed dovetail would work best not causing great harm to either employee group while not giving unfair advantage to either side.

 

[L1011Ret]

911 is the reson for the furloughs. When the seniority was being settled there was expansion seen for all. The TW people from the buy out were not merged, there were set to start from the begining like every other AA employee before them.
!20 ex tw planes and how many AA planes parked or sold as part of the cutbacks? More than the number of planes brought over from TW.

[post="275194"][/post]​

Surely you jest Mikey, start from the beginning like every other employee before them? I guess crew schedulers, management employees, pilots, mechanics and some other groups were given various kinds of seniority. So it certainly is not every other employee as you claim. It certainly was not a claim made by AA.

 

[FA Mikey]

Surely you jest Mikey, start from the beginning like every other employee before them? I guess crew schedulers, management employees, pilots, mechanics and some other groups were given various kinds of seniority. So it certainly is not every other employee as you claim. It certainly was not a claim made by AA.

[post="275223"][/post]​

You are right. I should have said my work group.

 

[L1011Ret]

You are right. I should have said my work group.

[post="275225"][/post]​

Or better yet your union. As it was, the merger acquisition group of APFA told the TWA reps TWAers would not be stapled. Some time later JW disolved the merger acquisition committee and insisted on the stapling. It was not even APFA policy.

 

[aafsc]

aafsc:

Integrating by D-O-H does not equate to a staple for America West people. There are a fair amout of US employees who were hired after 1983 and many of the former PI people have seniority dates of mid 1980''s. For all of USAir's mis-steps and blunders over the years, the ONE thing they got right was integrating by D-O-H.

As for the term, acquisition, merger, etc....it's all a play on words. When two companies come together and join forces, integration by D-O-H is the most equitable way to integrate. I worked for PSA, and USAir during both mergers and it all came out in the wash. The flying get inherited as well as the staff.

It is very unfortunate how the AA/TW teams were integrated, and you cannot tell me that having an employee with 30 years of service at TW, who is now out on the street, and a nAAtive with 4-5 years of service still remains employed, is fair. That does not make for equitable integration.

And spare me all the talk about TW's and US's financial condition. It is irrelavant. The point is both carriers had something to bring to the table by the acquiring company.

Tell me, were Air Cal and Trans Carib employees stapled at the bottom as well?

[post="275108"][/post]​

Jamake1, you said "both carriers had something to bring to the table". In the TW/AA case, TW brought STL and MCI to the table. TWA Ramp and AMTs were given their full seniority in these bases. When AA cut back, it cut the STL hub 70% and grounded planes (most of them TWA super 80s in the last 2 cuts). STL is the weakest hub when compared to ORD and DFW. MCI is a 50 year old base that has been patched together over the years. TUL is AA's historic mx base and is the largest in the world. AFW is a new state of the art facility that does the 767-300s and 777s. So when cutbacks were necessary, the two weakest bases were reduced STL and MCI. As a result, the people that came with those bases were also cut. There were about 150 AA ramp people in STL. With these cuts, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM has been kicked out of STL. NOT ONE LEFT because of this stupid transaction that the AA employees were totally against from day one. Sorry, I don't agree with you that the TWAers should come into our airline, throw us out, and enjoy the fruits of our labor and contracts that WE fought for. As far as AirCal and TransCarib, I was hired after these two deals but I think they got full DOH. And if they did it is because AA bought the entire company with ALL contractual liabilities. And don't let the TWAers fool you. They say. "well, we gave the Ozark people their seniority and they were AMFA". The fact is the IAM officials dictated that Ozark be dovetailed. The TWAers were very much against giving the OZ people DOH. This was stated by an ex-TWAer who is in the union in MCI.

 

[aafsc]

<_< I'm sorry aa! I didn't realize that there were 500+ nAAtives going out the door also!!!! Where are these people being layed off at? TUL??, AFW???, MIA???

[post="275133"][/post]​

Well, for starters, I got laid off a month ago and had to go to another city as did hundreds of other nAAtives. I know there are still nAAtives laid off from TUL and probably some from AFW also. But there is a little bit of good news. Here in MIA they have recalled all ramp and agents, including the ex-TWA people. Someone on this board said that they recalled all ramp in DFW. When DFW opens the new terminal, more will probably transfer there and there are many in MIA that want to go to DFW which will create openings in MIA and we are short now. Additionally, I think when the new terminal in JFK opens AA might add some flights there and there are people in MIA that want to go to JFK. So things are opening up for ramp and agents it seems. I also understand they took some ex-TWAers on layoff in STL and put them in some cities where they have openings.

 

[aafsc]

Mikey, please don't use 9/11 as an excuse for what happened to the TWAers. The staple occurred well before 9/11. Last I heard there were about 120 757s and S80 from TWA still at AA.

[post="275184"][/post]​

Try more like 60 S80s and 19 757s for a whopping grand total of 79 ex-TWA aircraft.