Fleet Service apathy

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

Are you saying that you will have an attorney present at EVERY SINGLE step three hearing with your AGC's? Because that is the implication you are giving here. And why are you answering for the people on your ticket. I mean the only 2 that have answered are the other TN and D Paz. Pretty pathetic really. Why do you have to answer for the others I wonder? Are you afraid that they will not be able to answer the way you want them to? If you really want us to believe in your "tranparency" have your other US canidates come on here and engage us. Talk about their qualifications and let us judge them as them, not you answering for them. Is that too much to ask?

the candidates have been traveling to most of the Locals and answer for themselves. I only come on here because I know of this site. Most everyone else is on facebook. And I'm mostly on facebook myself.

I haven't really seen any candidates from any ticket on this site other than me and Paz posting under our real name so I think your comments should reflect that and give us credit and be more fair.

I do want to get a clarification from you. You seem to be singly focused on step 3's. What is the difference between step 2 and step 3, in your mind? I mean, let's say MF handles a step 2. What is going to change his argument in step 3? I want to answer your questions but I also want you to clarify some of the items before I do.

As far as having professional legal help, the attorney will be well versed on all step 3's and arbitrations. Tell me PJ, do you know how many step 3's there are per year? And do you know that many of them are taken care of in single settings collectively? Why wouldn't our attorney be at all step 3's? Other unions have in house legal services, so should we. By insourcing our legal services we will be saving about $50,000 a year. And with dues going up, it makes no sense to continue contracting out our legal services. For my video explaining the savings we will achieve by insourcing our legal services, click Here.

At any rate, if it's pathetic that only me and Paz come on here, then it must be doubly pathetic that nobody from your ticket post under their name here. Be fair PJ, that's all I ask.

Onward

 

[Tim Nelson]

PJ…

Do you remember how long it took for the newly elected N/D AGC’s to be educated at Winpisinger? I’m certain it was at least a few weeks… for some reason… Tim wants ME to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that AGC’s receive special training.

Ironic isn’t it… I’m not running for Delaney’s position… or any position for that matter… and I have to fill in the blanks for Tim. Further, Tim answers every question with a question… its called attention diversion!

This type of ambiguity really looks god on the resume of someone running for President of the 141 doesn't it?

Roabily,

you are the one saying that the AGC"s receive all this special training. The onus is upon you to prove your point. I'm saying that it doesn't exist. I asked you to get with MF and ask him to tell you about all of this 'special training'. Either that or your point about all of this 'speical AGC training' falls. I happen to know the truth about it and there is next to no training at all. At any rate, my point is that no matter who your AGC's are, whether they stay as MF or are newly elected, all of them are certain to continue incapabilities against Corporate attorneys who have law degrees and sometimes up to 12 years of actual training from 'top' universities.

I'm just asking you to reference what in the world you are talking about, that's all. Because I know you are talking in myth. All that special training doesn't exist other than a couple weeks of classes where they walk out with a sorta 'participation certificate'. Again, reference your thesis and I have no problem if you call MF and ask him to write down for you all of this 'special training'.

You want an AGC or District President that thinks they are Perry Mason against Corporate attorneys then vote for ND. You want an educated president who realizes his deficiencies along the discipline of Law, and delegates authority to professionals that he surrounds himself with then you vote for me. There is a reason why 2% doesn't really mean 2% in your contract.

I am not surprised that the establishment and those that support the establishment will reject: AGC + Attorney > AGC + Cell Phone. The outside law firm provides perks in the form of limo rides, sports tickets, executive suites. There is a reason why we are one of the few unions that don't have our legal services insourced. With dues going up, it makes no sense.

Tim's video on: Legal Services Must Cut Cost and Insource

Onward!

 

[700UW]

700. Please stop quote mining me. I would appreciate if you cited or referenced what I said.

At any rate, who is talking anything about a CBA? The case I referenced was a group of individuals who do not have a contract. And, there is nothing stopping any group from walking off of the job IF there is no contract. In trying to prevent that, management will always try to sign a no strike clause when a new group gets organized. Getting back to SayWhat's question, I simply think that Delaney gave up the no strike clause for next to nothing and shouldn't have collared a work group without gain.

Onward!

And if your an employee at will and you walk of the job you can be terminated with no recourse.

Thanks to Lee Seeham in AMFA vs ACA, there is no status quo applied to a newly organized group without a CBA.

 

[700UW]

Ah Tim you make this way too easy:

Course list

Pay Attention to the Staff Programs, I have been there and AGCs, GCs and GLRs receive specialized training.

Advanced Arbitration
Advanced Collective Bargaining
Arbitration Program
Collective Bargaining
Comprehensive Training Program
First Contract
Foundational Skills
Internal Organizing
Local Lodge History Project
National Labor College
Negotiating Defined Contribution Plans
Negotiation Preparation for Bargaining Committees
Orientation and Basic Skills Program
Organizing Program I & II
Pension Fundamentals
Contemporary Issues in Pension Negotiations
Pension - Canadian
Special Topics in Collective Bargaining
U Mass Graduate Degree Program
Union Growth for Local Lodge Leaders

Your ignorance is really showing.

The ones I highlighted are for AGC, GC, GLR, etc....

 

[saywhat]

Roabily,

you are the one saying that the AGC"s receive all this special training. The onus is upon you to prove your point. I'm saying that it doesn't exist. I asked you to get with MF and ask him to tell you about all of this 'special training'. Either that or your point about all of this 'speical AGC training' falls. I happen to know the truth about it and there is next to no training at all. At any rate, my point is that no matter who your AGC's are, whether they stay as MF or are newly elected, all of them are certain to continue incapabilities against Corporate attorneys who have law degrees and sometimes up to 12 years of actual training from 'top' universities.

I'm just asking you to reference what in the world you are talking about, that's all. Because I know you are talking in myth. All that special training doesn't exist other than a couple weeks of classes where they walk out with a sorta 'participation certificate'. Again, reference your thesis and I have no problem if you call MF and ask him to write down for you all of this 'special training'.

You want an AGC or District President that thinks they are Perry Mason against Corporate attorneys then vote for ND. You want an educated president who realizes his deficiencies along the discipline of Law, and delegates authority to professionals that he surrounds himself with then you vote for me. There is a reason why 2% doesn't really mean 2% in your contract.

I am not surprised that the establishment and those that support the establishment will reject: AGC + Attorney > AGC + Cell Phone. The outside law firm provides perks in the form of limo rides, sports tickets, executive suites. There is a reason why we are one of the few unions that don't have our legal services insourced. With dues going up, it makes no sense.

Tim's video on: Legal Services Must Cut Cost and Insource

Onward!

Tim,

I have talked to several people who were in the transition talks and they all say the 2% was correct in LOA and a misprint in the CBA. You keep stating that a lawyer pulled a fast one on the Union when in reality it isn't so. You continue to say untrue things to get traction so you can satisfy your narcissistic personality when all I see you accomplishing is tearing down this Union even more. Get real.

 

[mike33]

Mike,
It doesn't matter if there were planes at the gate or not. They are free to wildcat, sitdown, slowdown, etc. They were not under a no strike clause when they did that. That's why the company needs a no work stoppage type clause.

As far as the Hawaiian contract, simply go to iam141.org and click the Hawaiian tab. There you will find the updates where the union position was 'equal work = equal pay' and you will also find the contract that threw part timers under the bus and pays them half of full time, and ushers in the anti union ready reserve that Delta airlines employs.

www.occupyiam141.com

Onward!

,
I'll give you that it would seems strange to see 40 employees walking the hallways, but with no flights on the ground, its possibly misconstrued that it was a " wildcat, sitdown, slowdown ".

Anyway.....I can read the HA contract, but i haven't heard too much disagreement of the terms by anyone.
There are those that like to work under that type of system i guess?. Housewives etc. But i think it sucks myself, but its not my Contract and i didn't vote on it !

Peace Bro

 

[mike33]

Save Bandwidth and save the " It can happen to you " . Anything can happen to me, but I haven't seen the " Anything" yet till its presented to me from my union!

Back to Hibernation 😛h34r:

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

I have talked to several people who were in the transition talks and they all say the 2% was correct in LOA and a misprint in the CBA. You keep stating that a lawyer pulled a fast one on the Union when in reality it isn't so. You continue to say untrue things to get traction so you can satisfy your narcissistic personality when all I see you accomplishing is tearing down this Union even more. Get real.

Well, I'm certainly not saying that an attorney pulled a fast one. I'm saying that we need professionals in negotiations to assist our negotiators. You do realize that AFA not only uses its negotiations team but also attorneys and professional negotiators don't you? Many other unions also. The radical thing is what we are doing by taking in $6 million in this district and not providing professional services and instead pontificating about how our AGC's are F Lee Bailey caliber!

Any fair minded person would clearly see that we need to insource our legal services and upgrade the level of our union professionally. This isn't about "My AGC's are better than your's" , this is about a whole new mindset to fix stupid.

Onward!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Save Bandwidth and save the " It can happen to you " . Anything can happen to me, but I haven't seen the " Anything" yet till its presented to me from my union!

Back to Hibernation 😛h34r:

Well, if you hire anyone, you go by their references, right. The HAL contract is a great reference to use to show the ND's work. The UA/CO situation is another reference for you to look at their work before you have these guys sign on to do your work. We have opportunity to fire these guys before they work on your talks like they have HAL and UA. Firing them after the work is done 4 years from now makes no sense.

I left my District union position because I realized that no IAM 141 member is going to get anything fair with this broken system, and without fresh new ideas. I realized that the airtran, hal, and ua/co negotiations were witness to the fact that the ND is incapable. Mostly because they just don't listen and they all think they are Perry Mason.

OTOH, I have a proven record as a District leader and I wasn't successful because I was smart but rather because I brought fresh new ideas to organizing that we incorporated. Of course, alot of hard work also, 24/7, gone 250 nights in hotels that drove up my per diems to $30,000. We need to put things on a different path along the lines of representation also. Some of the abstract things are clearly lacking with President Delaney. His LM2 showed that he only spent $6,000 in 2010. That meant that other than 3 conventions, he basically stayed in his office. Being president must include energy,passion, sacrifice, and something more than 9-5.

 

[700UW]

Leader?

Did you lead negotiations?

Nope, you never even participated.

Have you ever done a grievance hearing beyond step II?

Ever do an arbitration?

Organizing is not Collective Bargaining nor the Grievance Procedure.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Leader?

Did you lead negotiations?

Nope, you never even participated.

Have you ever done a grievance hearing beyond step II?

Ever do an arbitration?

Organizing is not Collective Bargaining nor the Grievance Procedure.

700,

I'm not following what you are saying. As President, the position of leadership isn't to do step 3's or even do an arbitration but to lead a team and delegate such activities. Our new AGC's will have the added advantage of additional resources in the form of an attorney, and the work will be spread out between 8 of them instead of 5. So, the backlog of grievances should finally go from a reality to myth.

Also, being 'in' negotiations has nothing to do with negotiations experience. Negotiations experience is the process of building and attaining leverage. I have done that for negotiations committees at US AIRWAYS, Airtran, and at Ua/CO.

Organizing is building solidarity and it's the same with representation. A leader has to be determined, committed, with passion and energy and must build trust to build teams. A leader must recognize leverage, capture it and covet it. The actual negotiations table is just the image of negotiations as most negotiations happen outside that room where real leverage is happening. I have more negotiations experience than Delaney as I witness his HAL contract and botched UA/CO negotiations. I does have tons more experience occupuying space in a chair across a wooden table.

BTW, I asked this of PJ, what is the difference between step 2 and step 3 other than a new manager and another burn of about a year or more? I mean if MF puts on a case at step 2, wouldn't it naturally follow that his capabilities will be equal at step 3?

At any rate, my job won't be to argue step 3's. That's the job of an AGC. My job will be to delegate authority, build & Maintain leverage, and team build by building trust with the membership first and foremost. It's called leadership.

Onward!

 

[Tim Nelson]

To ND:

Why did you eliminate one more US AIRWAYS position when there is a backlog of grievances? Something is wrong with that

Onward!

 

[pjirish317]

BTW, I asked this of PJ, what is the difference between step 2 and step 3 other than a new manager and another burn of about a year or more? I mean if MF puts on a case at step 2, wouldn't it naturally follow that his capabilities will be equal at step 3?

At any rate, my job won't be to argue step 3's. That's the job of an AGC. My job will be to delegate authority, build & Maintain leverage, and team build by building trust with the membership first and foremost. It's called leadership.

Onward!

Tim,

You just stated to me that an attorney would handle ALL step 3 hearings. If that is in fact the case, why have
AGC's at all? And how will this attorney travel to all the stations to handle the step 3 hearings? Who pays for the travel? You are doing a great job of fighting the battles for your ticket, but all that shows us is that they think what YOU want them to think, do what YOU want them to do, say what YOU want them to say, because you have proven that if it's not Tim's way it's the highway. Good to see a backbone in your ticket, NOT. You spin everything to your own advantage, and I know I see through it, and I will try to open the eyes of others that have been blinded by your rhetoric. Oh and BTW, i have not asked for the ND's qualifications, I asked for your ticket's qualifications. Why is it so hard to have your AGC canidates tell their experience? Oh, never mind you will just answer for them anyway. But it must make you all warm and fuzzy inside to be the puppet master of your ticket. Did you have them sign a "commitment letter" to have you speak for them?

On another note Tim. Who was on the HA negotiating committee, and who ultimately agreed that the CBA that was negotiated was acceptable to the workers at HA? Were there any US people negotiating that CBA? How about the UA/CO negotiating committee? Are there any US people there? And who will ultimately have the final say, could it be the workers that decide if a good job was done negotiating, and if the terms negotiated are acceptable or not?

 

[cactus hugger]

I would like to comment on a post that was made a few pages ago about the candidates . I personally got to talk to 3 of the folks running with Tim Nelson
at our nomination meeting a few weeks ago. They answered all my questions but what struck me as admirable was they explained there plans about
fixing the problems with this union and never once trash talked about the other candidates and for me that goes a long way. I will also like to mention
that it was pointed out to me that Rich Delaney was there but noticed he was just standing on the curb alone. My question is where was PHX AGC at
If he/she was there he/she didn't make it known to any of us who he/she was.

 

[Jester]

And who will ultimately have the final say, could it be the workers that decide if a good job was done negotiating, and if the terms negotiated are acceptable or not?

"Tyranny of the Majority" is still tyranny... complete loss of principles in treating fellow "brothers" who pay the same union dues substantially different in terms of work rules and pay. Any Negotiation Committee member who accepted the HAL TA should submit their resignation immediately, in particular, Rich Delinquency who had final say on accepting the TA. I would expect better from those who should be the ethical gate keepers and moral compass of the Membership, instead of ignoring the values of Equal Protection.

So Deems Jester.