Fleet Service apathy

[700UW]

How many officer elections have you run?

I have ran elections for 1725, 141, 141M, 142, 143 and Grand Lodge.

Bylaws are quite clear.

If you dont meet the eligibility requirements your stricken off the ballot, that was my job as RS for 1725 and I was never shown to be wrong in regards to eligibility in any election I ran.

 

[roabilly]

What do you know Roabily? Please tell all of us what promises are false? If you think some things are campaign gimmicks then it's better to say, "I don't believe Tim's platform but if it happens then I applaud him for giving back". But you have no verifyableness or no certainty to make such a statement that you are experienced and know these things to be campaign gimmicks. What if you are wrong Roabily? It's incredibly unfair to claim dogmatically that you know these things to be false.

Roabily, you are out of character and I really don't know why. I really don't mind if you aren't going to vote for me due to your preference for Delaney but you have allowed yourself to grind a personal ax for some reason against me. Roabily, is it wrong for a union leader to support management on a part time wage scale that tops out at half of full time? Anyone should be able to answer that question as Absolutely! But since the New Direction was the one to hammer those Hawaiian members, I'm not so sure that you would be willing to admit the obvious.

And, let's say AMR and US merge. Would you be in favor of me or Delaney or anyone else dragging out your contract talks for 3 years but then scrapping them and hitting the 'push start' button on new surveys, etc if I or anyone else said, "Well, we have to go into transition talks now"?

Onward!

Tim.

Believe me, I’m completely IN character! Further, the only “axe” I have to grind with you is my disdain for your shrewd, tactical, and questionably ethical campaign maneuvers. You are exploiting this Membership, especially those that are less informed, knowledgeable, and gullible. You are intentionally inciting dissention with all of your rhetorical claims of Delaney this… and Delaney that… and further fanning the flames of discontent with the Leadership of the IAM for your OWN benefit.

In my opinion, this does not represent OUR best interest… however it does represent YOUR best interest in proving a point or getting revenge! You are using the Membership as a pawn in your insatiable quest for power… it’s that simple!

You are playing UA against US… Continental against US… and Member against Member for your own political agenda! Do you really think we are that stupid, and not able to realize what you are doing? Further do really think you are building solidarity, and improving your credibility with me and others like me that have been doing this for decades?

Dude… have you even realized that you are attempting to think and speak for those that do not agree with you? I've seen this time and again..."roabilly thinks"... "roabilly doesn't realize"... "roabilly is misinformed" etc. Tim... Roabilly is astute enough to garner information, compare it to known dynamics and history, make a conclusion, and finally to voice his opinion on those findings.

To quote saywhat… get real!

 

[UnitedWeStand]

UnitedWeStand,

The occupy team will ask for the membership to vote for the required 10 2yr agc's. Our current ticket will only be representative of 8 since the two continental rampers will be removed. But, make no mistake, there will be 2 2year agc's that will backfill our ticket, have been qualified, and you will know. And, sorry for the omission but all of our candidates got the required nominations.

The US AIRWAYS hubs showed their support for me by endorsing me overwhelmingly at each hub because they know me best. It's an honor for me to have received the unanimous hub endorsements, especially when the establishment wanted to keep the status quo. Also, each of our US AIRWAYS AGC's, from the hubs, also received the full endorsements, even though the establishment fought hard to keep the status quo. No other ticket had a US AIRWAYS AGC receive unanimous hubs support. It is the purest indicator that the US AIRWAYS members are receiving the message that they have only been treated 'second best' in this union, and the Occupy 141 ticket is addressing that and will make the US AIRWAYS members as equals with United finally.

Onward!

Mr. Nelson
Your statements are important to me in that it is difficult to win an election without a slate. At prior elections, I was handed slate cards got a hug and a wink, and told "this will help you out!" Most of the members that showed up were not interested in politics of an election and barely knew who was on the slate. I don't know how many members we have now, but I thought it was around 50,000. US Airways members are around 7000 with around 1000 to 1500 at the hubs. The nomination vote was whoever showed up at the meeting that day and I applaud you for your success. My deep concern is the 43,000 other members who don't care about US Airways. I am concerned because if some of these members are driven to the polls because they are being told that you are making a grab for their rep count, we will end up with reps that are from other airlines. From what I see, Hawaiian is the only group that are guaranteed their own rep. I think your intentions are there, but I'm afraid all hell is going to break loose.

 

[saywhat]

Mr. Nelson
Your statements are important to me in that it is difficult to win an election without a slate. At prior elections, I was handed slate cards got a hug and a wink, and told "this will help you out!" Most of the members that showed up were not interested in politics of an election and barely knew who was on the slate. I don't know how many members we have now, but I thought it was around 50,000. US Airways members are around 7000 with around 1000 to 1500 at the hubs. The nomination vote was whoever showed up at the meeting that day and I applaud you for your success. My deep concern is the 43,000 other members who don't care about US Airways. I am concerned because if some of these members are driven to the polls because they are being told that you are making a grab for their rep count, we will end up with reps that are from other airlines. From what I see, Hawaiian is the only group that are guaranteed their own rep. I think your intentions are there, but I'm afraid all hell is going to break loose.

Good point, I believe TN has been saying only 20000 UA/CO are eligible to vote and 6000 US are eligible to vote. Math would dictate US get 6.5 reps and UA/CO get 21.5 reps. TN's ticket has 12 US reps I believe which may cause this backlash by UA/CO and US may end up with less or even none.

 

[ograc]

You misunderstand what I am saying. I am saying that he can now tell the Continental members who I think outnumber the United members: "Vote for me. I am the only one who wants Continental representation on my ticket!" That is the tactical side in my opinion. What they don't know is that he could have run them in a position that did not have the 2 year requirement. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is why RR and CL were slotted as VP from the former America West Group out of PHX in 2008.
Other interpretations can be gleaned from this but being "to stupid and uninformed to understand the rules" is not one.

From my understanding, and you should know better I with your position on an e-board, the DOL not the DOT is involved in union elections. I believe they act more in an over site capacity rather than actually running the show. I believe the The District will be in control of tabulation with the DOL looking over their shoulder. (District bylaws article VIII section 6(f)(g)).

UnitedWeStand,
Sorry for the error. It is the DOL overseeing the election process. It is my understanding as well their role is to oversee the nomination/endorsement and the election process. The question is, if it is true he could have run CO candidates for positions requiring less than the 2 year requirement, does he truly want CO representation or just their votes? It's a mystery.
ograc

 

[UnitedWeStand]

Good point, I believe TN has been saying only 20000 UA/CO are eligible to vote and 6000 US are eligible to vote. Math would dictate US get 6.5 reps and UA/CO get 21.5 reps. TN's ticket has 12 US reps I believe which may cause this backlash by UA/CO and US may end up with less or even none.

The LM2 filed with the DOL says 21,110 members for 2010. I thought the new Continental member numbers were substantial. My number was a guess

 

[pjirish317]

Tim,

Direct question time again, and please yes or no, or brief answers please.

Who is going to replace your CO AGC's in the event that they are truely ineligable to run?

Do you already have appointee's in mind?

If so, who are they?

Have they signed your "committment" letter to "pledge" back money?

Or, was this the plan all along, to garner CO votes for your ticket, all the while "misleading" the CO employee's that they will have their own AGC's?

Were there any US people participating in the Hawaiian negotiations?

Are there any US people participating in the UA/CO negotiations?

How will your "In-House" attorney fly around the system to handle ALL step 3 hearings?

You want us to believe your "doom and gloom" fear mongering about a merger that may or may not happen.

Speaking for myself only, my disdain for you comes from your "scortched earth", fear mongering, empty promises and divisional campaign tactics. Do you even realize how many bridges you burned down during this campaign? That IMO can't ever be repaired.

P.S.
When roabilly "worked" for you, how did that come about? Did you ask him to do you a favor? Or did he offer to do you a favor? By the sounds of it, he was just helping a friend out, and not in actuality "working" for you.

 

[700UW]

If he is so for democracy, why is he taking the power out of the membership hands to elect their AGCs and assuming power and appointing?

Something is rotten in Denmark.

Once again its all about Tim and is power grasp, not what's best for the membership.

He never came out and said anything about this till he was confronted on it. That's not leadership, that's a dictatorship.

 

[saywhat]

Tim,

Direct question time again, and please yes or no, or brief answers please.

Who is going to replace your CO AGC's in the event that they are truely ineligable to run?

Do you already have appointee's in mind?

If so, who are they?

Have they signed your "committment" letter to "pledge" back money?

Or, was this the plan all along, to garner CO votes for your ticket, all the while "misleading" the CO employee's that they will have their own AGC's?

Were there any US people participating in the Hawaiian negotiations?

Are there any US people participating in the UA/CO negotiations?

How will your "In-House" attorney fly around the system to handle ALL step 3 hearings?

You want us to believe your "doom and gloom" fear mongering about a merger that may or may not happen.

Speaking for myself only, my disdain for you comes from your "scortched earth", fear mongering, empty promises and divisional campaign tactics. Do you even realize how many bridges you burned down during this campaign? That IMO can't ever be repaired.

P.S.
When roabilly "worked" for you, how did that come about? Did you ask him to do you a favor? Or did he offer to do you a favor? By the sounds of it, he was just helping a friend out, and not in actuality "working" for you.

Interesting point on the In-House attorney. If Tim could get an attorney for around $100000 his expenses to fly around the country and have staff to cover for him when he was gone and to help prep cases etc. would be another $100000-$200000 more per year IMO. Tim has a delusional plan at best.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Mr. Nelson
Your statements are important to me in that it is difficult to win an election without a slate. At prior elections, I was handed slate cards got a hug and a wink, and told "this will help you out!" Most of the members that showed up were not interested in politics of an election and barely knew who was on the slate. I don't know how many members we have now, but I thought it was around 50,000. US Airways members are around 7000 with around 1000 to 1500 at the hubs. The nomination vote was whoever showed up at the meeting that day and I applaud you for your success. My deep concern is the 43,000 other members who don't care about US Airways. I am concerned because if some of these members are driven to the polls because they are being told that you are making a grab for their rep count, we will end up with reps that are from other airlines. From what I see, Hawaiian is the only group that are guaranteed their own rep. I think your intentions are there, but I'm afraid all hell is going to break loose.

Actually Hawaiian doesn't have one single rep. Even the VP Hawaiian is a United employee. Hawaiian is 2,500 members without one single eboard spot.

The district is made up of 15,000 United airline workers. 7,500 Continental workers. 6,300 US AIRWAYS members. I don't plan on splitting much of the US AIRWAYS support and we have outpowered the New Direction at the two monster CO Hubs, ie, EWR and IAH. In fact, The New Direction originally scheduled the IAH local elections for June to try to pump out vote for the New Direction district elections on the same day because their grievance committee 'guaranteed' they would deliver. Since then, the ND discovered that I attained 25% more support at the nominations of IAH/EWR than they did and that the Occupy support is going to be far greater than that in June. So they shifted the Local elections to May.

At United, there is a 3 way split between two UA presidents who are splitting their votes almost equally. Never mind that the UA turnout was putrid since they are frustrated with being lied to by the New Direction. That said, I believe I will carry ORD. I did fairly well at ORD in the nominations even though I didn't show my key ORD candidates until the day of the vote. Mark Connolly and Pete Brown both walked in the door and immediately became two of the highest vote getters. I want to slam this home in a big way.

The winner will be the first one to 3,000 votes. If it was only me and one UA president then it would be tougher on me, but having two UA presidents splitting their own votes is the perfect storm against Delaney. We are "All In" at US AIRWAYS. Some committees may be agaisnt us because of political gain but we smashed right through them in March with little resistance from the masses who want to see this done and finally want a US AIRWAYS Voice.

Again, too close to call, time will tell. The weakness of the Occupy team is in SFO and I am trying to shore that up. I want to win convincingly with all on board.

Onward!

 

[Tim Nelson]

If he is so for democracy, why is he taking the power out of the membership hands to elect their AGCs and assuming power and appointing?

Something is rotten in Denmark.

Once again its all about Tim and is power grasp, not what's best for the membership.

He never came out and said anything about this till he was confronted on it. That's not leadership, that's a dictatorship.

700, who gets the "Certificate of Appreciation" that is awarded to the member who has had valuable contributions in IAM 141 by servicing and assisting the membership in a professional way?

Did you ever get one of those because I did. Oh, and since you know the bylaws, maybe you can come clean and also advise everyone that we don't have district elections but every two years, and that if any jobs come open then they have to be appointed and then run for election. Sheesh. If you are going to attack me then at least make some sense or be truthful.

Onward!

 

[necigrad]

As a preview though, a couple of platform positions specifically address the lack of effective grievance handling and accountability of the AGCs. The team will initiate an electronic grievance tracking system, available to all members, to track the status of their particular grievance. The AGCs will have to file a report with the President and appointed committee for review every quarter concerning the status of grievances filed within their stations. Heightened accountability of the AGCs will be addressed.

Have the costs (if any) of this online system been determined? Obviously there won't be a hard number, but it is free, $5000, $100,000??? If it's a notable amount, how do you plan on paying for this?

Regarding the "accountability" of the AGCs, what will be don't to hold them accountable? They're elected, I don't believe they can simply be removed (though I don't actually know).

ograc reeks of indecent politics

Wow. Considering the false campaign promises and misrepresentations that you're making Tim what do you call your politics? Sandbox? Playground? UFC? Typical Congressional campaigning?

 

[700UW]

700, who gets the "Certificate of Appreciation" that is awarded to the member who has had valuable contributions in IAM 141 by servicing and assisting the membership in a professional way?

Did you ever get one of those because I did. Oh, and since you know the bylaws, maybe you can come clean and also advise everyone that we don't have district elections but every two years, and that if any jobs come open then they have to be appointed and then run for election. Sheesh. If you are going to attack me then at least make some sense or be truthful.

Onward!

Spin spin spin,

Sorry all my awards came from the International, you know the higher office than the District!

And once again your patting yourself on the back and not addressing what I posted.

You willingly have two people on your slate that arent not eligible for office, that's what I posted, therefore your taking the democracy out of the membership's hands and your taking the power and appointing your cronies.

Oh by the way, I was involved in the largest airline win ever in the IAM history, UA PCE, your cant top that!

 

[UnitedWeStand]

I don't plan on splitting much of the US AIRWAYS support and we have outpowered the New Direction at the two monster CO Hubs, ie, EWR and IAH.


At United, there is a 3 way split between two UA presidents who are splitting their votes almost equally. Never mind that the UA turnout was putrid since they are frustrated with being lied to by the New Direction. That said, I believe I will carry ORD. I did fairly well at ORD in the nominations even though I didn't show my key ORD candidates until the day of the vote. Mark Connolly and Pete Brown both walked in the door and immediately became two of the highest vote getters. I want to slam this home in a big way.


The winner will be the first one to 3,000 votes. If it was only me and one UA president then it would be tougher on me, but having two UA presidents splitting their own votes is the perfect storm against Delaney. We are "All In" at US AIRWAYS. Some committees may be agaisnt us because of political gain but we smashed right through them in March with little resistance from the masses who want to see this done and finally want a US AIRWAYS Voice.



Onward!

Mr. Nelson
By your numbers there are around 25,000 members if my math is right. US Airways members dont constitute a quarter of that. Knowing that around 75% of the membership is CO/UA I think you have a much higher mountain to climb if you think you can compete with two United Candidates. All they have to hear is "some dude from Useless Air is going to negotiate OUR CONTRACT!!! BULL PUCKY!!!"(Sorry, New England term)

After a union meeting, I picked the brain of a International Rep who had been present at the meeting. I asked him: 1. Why there not AGC positions designated for each airline? and 2. Who determines the number of AGC's the district could have?

The answer that he gave me was that within the Internationals Districts and Territories, the Business Representatives (formal name for AGC, GC etc...) can cover multiple contracts. Some Locals have their own Business Rep. Our district covers major airlines and only deals with the RLA. That is why historically we have had reps covering each contract. The large groups can accommodate it. If we want reps for each group, it would require a change in the District bylaws. As for the second question, he said that the International determines the number of AGC's they would support. By support, he defined that the Constitution dictates that they pay half of a Business reps salary. They determine how many AGC's they will support according to the membership numbers. If the District decides that they want to add 8 AGC's like Mr. Nelson stated he would, the District would have to pay the full amount: 100k for each.

Mr. Nelson, if you are not elected and only 1 US person makes it. "It is what it is" I believe that after the 2010 election, we had more spots on the eboard than we had in a long time. I don't know what our numbers were when our mechanics were there, but I can see those numbers fizzle away with the perfect storm.

If you don't get "your" full slate in, I don't see how you are going to get everyone to fall in line with giving up pay for attorneys. I don't see how you can afford an entire firm. UA wont give up their salary to pay for US attorneys. If you plan on including UA, US, and HI for attorney representation at negotiations and with grievances, A small firm will not be able to keep up.

I am but one vote, but I do have an opinion

 

[ograc]

Wings,

Ograc, wants you to believe that fairness is a dirty word. The Occupy 141 team wants fairness between UA and US and that means we want to bring our AGC per member count down to the same levels as UA. So, ogracs insistence that by making the per capita equal that we are considering our UA brothers and sisters our foes. Hogwash and ograc reeks of indecent politics as any fair minded US AIRWAYS member can clearly see that you are 'second best'. Ograc, doesn't care though, he is duty bound to support a UA president that he has supported along with Canale. His ticket has less representation on it than before you merged with America West and it's worst than bare bones. Remember, this guy was a huge Canale supporter and always gave his station support to Canale. Canale was absolutely terrible and worst than Delaney.

He claims his ticket is solid because it has US AIRWAYS employees who have over 25 years working for the company. Who cares? The members know who to support and PHX made it loud and clear that Ograc's PHX AGC got his arse handed to him by a super wide margin. What is worse is that Ograc's PHX AGC doesn't even support ograc. Did you know that ograc's PHX AGC publically renoucned ograc's ticket and is now on Delaney's ticket? And ograc's CLT AGC is terrible indeed! It just wasn't possible for CLT to stomach endorsing him. Ograc has always been in the shadows of others but when I asked him why they left out PHL, your biggest hub, he said he could handle PHL from JAX because it's "Only 2 hours by jet". What you should all know is that if this guy doesn't understand the fairly basic nature of representation and that PHL needs someone from PHL who IS THERE and not on a JAX patio, then what else can he possibly understand? Then the guy proclaims the occupy 141 ticket's give backs as false. How does he know that? Can he say that with certainty? Of course not. The give backs are going to happen. Bottom line because they have to. I don't expect ograc to understand that, especially since he thinks he will represent 1,700 folks in PHL from a JAX patio.

Sheesh!

Tim,
I wish to undo some of the spin you put on my remarks from a previous post. First of all, my point concerning PHL was there are 3 AGCs on our ticket that are within a short flying distance to PHL. One in CLT, one in PIT and myself in JAX. Speaking of PHL we just visited the station on Wednesday 04/04 and met with some of the members. What was evident was a station divided. Grievances poorly written and represented. Members with grievances lost in the grievance procedure for inexusable lengths of time. I believe your candidate for AGC from PHL is currently the Grievance Chairperson. ND currently has 1 AGC and 1 VP located in PHL. Just because an AGC is from PHL does not gaurantee effective representation in PHL or any other hub city for that matter. Wasn't MC from the ND team from CLT? How did he turn out? In the end it comes down to qualifications, dedication and serving the membership. If you think I intend to serve the membership from my patio you don't know me very well. By the way it's called a lanai in the south. lol!
ograc