Fleet Service apathy

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

Sounds as if you don't care who is on your ticket because the lawyer is going to be there at all times. Why not cut their salaries to $50,000 and you'll save that much more and they don't need to do anything other than say yes sir and I'll take another shot of koolaid please. You will need that extra money because your in house lawyer is going to need a big staff to be everywhere all the time. Get real.

Could you explain how Delaney circumvented the negotiating team on the outsourcing piece? Are you saying the negotiating team has authority over Delaney?

Saywhat,

Of course I care. I care enough so that I'm going to create a more professional representation by giving your AGC's access to an in house professional. The following equation may serve as a useful illustration.
AGC + Attorney > AGC + cell phone. Why would anyone fight this unless they have political blinders on???? Amazingly, we save thousands of dollars by bringing the legal work 'in house' as opposed to having it contracted out. So, it's win win. We really have no option unless we want to continue with the insanity of signing contracts where 2% doesn't really mean 2%. Cripes, there is so much gray in your contract that you can paint a USS battleship with. There is a reason for that.

At any rate, please answer my question that I posed, exactly what authority does any negotiations team member have? And would you call it 'circumventing a negotiations team' when your contract is not in status quo insomuch as both parties agree to change it and the negotiations team isn't included? Your contract is living and always changing insomuch as the president signs LOA, regardless of consent. That is circumventing the consent of the negotiations team and the consent of the masses. Not that either have the authority to stop the President.

Onward www.occupyiam141.com

regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

You wont get anywhere with thoughts like that.

The information is filed with the SEC and if it was false, US would get in trouble, guess you dont know about Sarbanes-Oxley.

You wont get a thing from the company if you cant look at the financials.

How many negotiation committees have you been part of?

How many classes have you taken on Collective Bargaining?

How many actuaries have you been involved with?

I dont think you have been to CBA 101 yet, cause with your thoughts you will never get a CBA.

AMFA did not have totally open negotiations, there were times the observers were asked to leave the room.

I never went to the IAM's organizing 101 class either. BTW, I don't know who's teaching the IAM Collective bargaining classes but you might want to tell them that they have done a cruddy job with all the fleet service contracts that I have seen. I will admit that Delaney and Canale both got their negotiations skills from the IAM negotiations 101 and 102 books. They must have, since they both signed terrible contracts. Cripes, at Hawaiian, last year, Delaney brought in the anti union ready reserve with a top out of $10. And signed a contract that forced regular part timers to top out at half of full time. And Delaney just gave up boatloads of leverage when he was coached to support management at United into transition talks. Seems consistent with how Canale was so brilliant that he was the only union on the property to come up with class two pay and the complete elimination of pay seniority that starts a 35 year employee back at $9 bucks. No snap backs, no profit sharing. No nothing. You can keep the negotiations 101 classes from the IAM, I've seen their results! Funny, cuz, Delaney wanted to send me to organizing classes but I told him that the IAM had to throw out it's organizing 101 book because it was outdated by about 100 years. Do I know everything? No. The difference is that I'm going to have professionals to assist, and if I have to sign a LOA then the membership will have to consent. I think that is wiser, more accountable, more professional, and more academic....and more powerful since the membership will be engaged. Of course, the alternative is what we have right now. No thanks! Save the "Ill Ask Management" negotiations handbook! Sorry but I don't have to see additional company financials to know that part timers should get paid as well as full timers, and that it is an abomination of labor to sign over the seniority rights of members. I admit, I don't want to rent out my mind to those types of IAM thoughts.

Maybe when the IAM starts teaching that the power of negotiations is in transparency and bringing the knowledge down to the masses, and activism,.....they might figure out the real art of negotiations!

regards,

 

[Uneed2no]

Tim, your going to be spending a lot of money on attorneys. The guy your picking out of phl to be on your ticket for AGC in phl, will need his own FT attorney. You obviously are playing politics and picking people to get you the vote. Your there for the members, yeah sure!! When people start finding out about some of these people you are saying are capable people, then your true agenda will be revealed. I have an idea. Why don't you take your rep out of phl, and clt and Phx, and have them travel around the system a little bit, so the members can ask them some questions, and see how knowledgeable they are. Ask anyone who has known Tim for a long time and see what they say. Except for the ones that would sale their moms for a position on his ticket, you won't here to many positive things about him.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim, your going to be spending a lot of money on attorneys. The guy your picking out of phl to be on your ticket for AGC in phl, will need his own FT attorney. You obviously are playing politics and picking people to get you the vote. Your there for the members, yeah sure!! When people start finding out about some of these people you are saying are capable people, then your true agenda will be revealed. I have an idea. Why don't you take your rep out of phl, and clt and Phx, and have them travel around the system a little bit, so the members can ask them some questions, and see how knowledgeable they are. Ask anyone who has known Tim for a long time and see what they say. Except for the ones that would sale their moms for a position on his ticket, you won't here to many positive things about him.

Well, in 2009 I received the IAM 141 "Certificate of appreciation" for outstanding service to this District. How many members received that? Current AGC, Eric Steinburg trusted me enough to appoint me Local Chairman in 2008. The current District president trusted me enough to put me in charge of an organizing department, knowing full well his IAM membership card was on the line. Amazingly, after I say I'm running against him, his team is saying I can't be trusted. How does a president go from trusting me and giving me responsibility on a campaign that his very own IAM membership depended upon it? It's called trust, unless he was a moron. Of course, I delivered for him. The support I have is also represented on different airlines. I'm not sure how many non-united members would stand a chance to run for district president. Time will tell but I'm sure I have a good amount of support at UA and CO also. Time will tell if it's winning support but I'm cautously optomistic but alot of hard work to do yet.

At any rate, I am very proud of having the PHL Local Chairman on the Occupy 141 ballot and he has the support of his members and has displayed that in different elections. He also had enough support from his AGC and Delaney to also include him on negotiations. So, ask Delaney why he trusted me. And ask Delaney why he continues to trust in the PHL AGC to keep him on negotiations. There are alot of 'issues' with this district and one of them is that the Local Chairman of PHL doesn't fit the 'accepted' template of the 'good ole boys'. Are you saying that the members who consistently vote for the LC are dumb? As far as the Occupy 141 PHX AGC, I stand by him 100% as a solid member who is more capable than anyone else in PHX. His members will decide though. And I know the CLT Occupy 141 AGC candidate from working with him and he is more than capable. Again, time will tell of his support. At any rate, Delaney hasn't done the job so there are 4 tickets who sense his complete failings and are challenging him. Probably about 100+ members overall. And why not? The establishment isn't entitled to the AGC positions OR our votes. As we see with the latest LOA, none of them got in the way of Delaney's support in the continual lockout of 5 stations and 250 more jobs.

As far as an attorney, as I said, it's a win win. Only political blinders would keep someone from supporting professionals. We need professionals and it also saves thousands of dollars bringing this legal work in house. I know the good ole boys don't like these sorta things and it smashes down the current structure that has been proven inept, but non political members realize that this is plausible and reasonable and should be expected. What we have now is a leadership that thinks they are all philadelphia attorneys and don't need attorneys in negotiations or arbitrations. The company realizes that they need attorneys in negotiations, I do, everyone else does, so why doesn't the establishment realize the significance of having an attorney in negotiations? It's the biggest no brainer since the creation of earth!

The REAL reason why the 'good ole boys' keep the outside lawfirm is because of the limo rides, executive suites in conventions, etc. One big party that started somewhere between the first $9,000 check and the second one. But, make no mistake, the outside law firm pampers the officers. The Occupy 141 team doesn't need perks, that's why we will have an in house attorney who we employ. I actually bonked up with others in normal rooms and saved the members money by sharing rooms. I'm not sure anyone else in the district did that. Cripes, once there was a convention in one city we were organizing in and 3 of us shared a room because I felt the hotel price was too high. Nope, Occupy 141 isn't into executive suites. Save that for Delaney and the good ole boys.

Onward www.occupyiam141.com

regards,

 

[P. REZ]

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As far as the Occupy 141 PHX AGC, I stand by him 100% as a solid member who is more capable than anyone else in PHX. His members will decide though. And I know the CLT Occupy 141 AGC candidate from working with him and he is more than capable. Again, time will tell of his support. At any rate, Delaney hasn't done the job so there are 4 tickets who sense his complete failings and are challenging him. Probably about 100+ members overall. And why not? The establishment isn't entitled to the AGC positions OR our votes. As we see with the latest LOA, none of them got in the way of Delaney's support in the continual lockout of 5 stations and 250 more jobs.

Onward www.occupyiam141.com

regards,

Tim, are you serious? You have lost all credibility with me dude.

 

[ograc]

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Tim, are you serious? You have lost all credibility with me dude.

I doubt if any of the candidates on the Occupy 141 Ticket would dare to stand in Tim's way either if elected. Going forward in this nomination/election process we, as a membership, need to examine closely the qualifications of the candidates for the positions they seek. We need to see through the campaign rhetoric. More importantly, we shouldn't let ourselves be fooled again. Other options / candidates may become available in this process. Let's keep it open and ultimately decide. I, for one, will be willing to work with whatever leadership team the membership duly elects. I'm not sure that could be said for other candidates in this election process.

 

[saywhat]

Saywhat,

Of course I care. I care enough so that I'm going to create a more professional representation by giving your AGC's access to an in house professional. The following equation may serve as a useful illustration.
AGC + Attorney > AGC + cell phone. Why would anyone fight this unless they have political blinders on???? Amazingly, we save thousands of dollars by bringing the legal work 'in house' as opposed to having it contracted out. So, it's win win. We really have no option unless we want to continue with the insanity of signing contracts where 2% doesn't really mean 2%. Cripes, there is so much gray in your contract that you can paint a USS battleship with. There is a reason for that.

At any rate, please answer my question that I posed, exactly what authority does any negotiations team member have? And would you call it 'circumventing a negotiations team' when your contract is not in status quo insomuch as both parties agree to change it and the negotiations team isn't included? Your contract is living and always changing insomuch as the president signs LOA, regardless of consent. That is circumventing the consent of the negotiations team and the consent of the masses. Not that either have the authority to stop the President.

Onward www.occupyiam141.com

regards,

Tim,

I am not against having a lawyer on staff. I think it will cost too much.

You do know that a contract is amendable under section 6 negotiations and that until a new contract is ratified all the current language is status quo?

 

[IAM Informer]

I doubt if any of the candidates on the Occupy 141 Ticket would dare to stand in Tim's way either if elected. Going forward in this nomination/election process we, as a membership, need to examine closely the qualifications of the candidates for the positions they seek. We need to see through the campaign rhetoric. More importantly, we shouldn't let ourselves be fooled again. Other options / candidates may become available in this process. Let's keep it open and ultimately decide. I, for one, will be willing to work with whatever leadership team the membership duly elects. I'm not sure that could be said for other candidates in this election process.

 

[john john]

Tim,

I am not against having a lawyer on staff. I think it will cost too much.

You do know that a contract is amendable under section 6 negotiations and that until a new contract is ratified all the current language is status quo?

Three words
L.O.A.

The contracts with all work groups and all airlines are litter with them.You better believe the company’s lawyers proofreads all LOA

 

[IAM Informer]

couldn't agree with you more. Something I think everyone should ask each candidate is
1. How are you and your team going to regain the trust of the membership
2. What are you going to do to serve the membership outside your basic duty's

I think those are 2 very important questions that need to be answered. We in 141 need not just another AGC or President we need a
group of leaders that the membership can and will once again put there trust in them if you can't do that then I think we are just
spinning our wheels in AZ desert

 

[ograc]

couldn't agree with you more. Something I think everyone should ask each candidate is
1. How are you and your team going to regain the trust of the membership
2. What are you going to do to serve the membership outside your basic duty's

I think those are 2 very important questions that need to be answered. We in 141 need not just another AGC or President we need a
group of leaders that the membership can and will once again put there trust in them if you can't do that then I think we are just
spinning our wheels in AZ desert

IAM Informer,
Both questions are valid. Especially the first. Without regaining the trust and support of the membership the second becomes insignificant. Building the trust, respect and ultimately the support of the membership is paramount in building solidarity. Historically, within our membership, there have been challenges to the direction of leadership teams through the elections. I believe this can be a painful but sometimes healthy process. As I stated in my earlier post, I am willing to work with the leadership team the membership duly elects. Too often this has not been the practice of those not elected. As a result, we lose the abilities and contributions of many qualified, motived and dedicated individuals. As a membership we ultimately lose ground. This must change if we, as a collective group, expect to go forward.
ograc

 

[Tim Nelson]

0000"][/color]

Tim, are you serious? You have lost all credibility with me dude.

Prez,
PHX isn't where it needs to be locally, and Districtly.

On the local level, we will have to disagree on your local leadership. On a District level, we need some AGC's from PHX. I have two from PHX who I believe are very solid. And I believe that Gus Gamboa is incredibly solid and ready to step in the district position. I firmly believe that PHX will support this but time will tell. At any rate, I seriously doubt that the ND will make anyone an AGC out of PHX, they seem like they always want to circumvent PHX all the time. Maybe someone currently in LAS will run PHX for the ND, dunno. The occupy 141 team's went with who we believed were the strongest candidates to serve the membership. Presently, PHX doesn't even have any District candidates for AGC that I know of.

Onward www.occupyiam141.com

regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

I am not against having a lawyer on staff. I think it will cost too much.

You do know that a contract is amendable under section 6 negotiations and that until a new contract is ratified all the current language is status quo?

Having an attorney on staff will save around $50,000 a year. We have outside attorneys right now that are a phone call away that bill us significantly. Bringing the legal in-house is a re-allocation of resources that saves money and increases professional resources in vital areas such as arbitration and negotiations. It's a win win. It's also essential. We simply need a real attorney to be present in negotiations and in arbitrations. Makes no sense to keep things the way they are now without any professionals in negotiations. We can do this and we will.

A President circumvents a negotiations team and the membership every time he cuts a deal and signs a new LOA without consent of anyone. The status quo of a contract recognizes article 29 as a way into the contract through the various types of LOA. LOA can be letters of clarification, non precedential letters of agreement, and precedential letters of agreement. Circumventing those 5 stations was one example.

Onward www.occupyiam141.com

Tim

 

[700UW]

Back your figures up on saving $50,000, negotiations take two years minimum, how do you suppose to pay for a lawyer?

Hire one on staff or use billable hours?

And the international has a whole legal department.

You dont need an attorney in every single negotiation session, only when it becomes necessary.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Back your figures up on saving $50,000, negotiations take two years minimum, how do you suppose to pay for a lawyer?

Hire one on staff or use billable hours?

And the international has a whole legal department.

You dont need an attorney in every single negotiation session, only when it becomes necessary.

The District pays around $150,000 for legal fees in representation. And no District uses the INTL's attorneys exclusively. Even your previous District 142 spent $115,000 on an attorney last year. All Districts also use the INTL attorneys for a tremendous resource also.

Labor attorneys make from $85,000 - $150,000 at the high end. Carla Seigel, the Deputy director of the legal department of the IAM makes the high end at about $150,000. David Neigus, a very experienced Railway Labor Act attorney has a salary of $113,000. Other Railway Labor Act attorneys make from $85,000 +

Hiring an attorney will make things much more professional and will provide an additional resource. Win Win.

Onward www.occupyiam141.com

regards,