Fleet Service apathy

[saywhat]

Why do you presume that an in-house attorney isn't going to know about RLA language? No, we don't need paralegals, and no other union needs paralegals when they have professionals on staff. Our AGC's will do just fine investigating grievances, and presenting grievances, especially with the added benefit of an in-house professional assisting them. AGC + Attorney > AGC + cell phone.

The attorney isn't going to be negotiating, he will simply be a valuable additional resource assisting me while in negotiations, etc. The company management has attorneys on their side and so should I. I'm not sure why we even have to continue discussing this. I think is is great to have professionals on staff. It's also an admission from me that, even though I have a masters education, that I don't have a law degree and that I am not a Philadelphia Attorney. Yes, I know, many AGC's think they are God after their two week 'agc schooling' at the IAM school of kool aid, but that's not good enough. I have found that the more education one has, the more they realize that they need more education and the more they understand that they ought to be surrounded by professionals. Does the establishment understand this?? HECK NO, it is going to upset their thinkings and the oppression in this union. What I am attempting to do is to install a whole new belief system in this great union because the current one should have been changed out the last century. Labor has regressed and it's not because of the Republicans, it's because labor is in sore need of being reinvented. THere is a reason why these airline jobs are no longer middle class and the only way we can bring the masses up from lower middle class is by installing a whole new belief system that abolishes the paternal structures that hold back all institutions in this day and age.

At any rate, I'm not sure I understand what you are saying when you say that an attorney can't possibly be at US AIRWAYS negotiations and United negotiations at the same time. Neither can I.

Onward www.occupyiam141.com

regards,

Tim,

I don't care how many times you get on here and deny it, the cost of having an attorney present at all times will be prohibitive. Should an attorney be used as much as possible, sure. You should really take a second to reconsider the individuals on your ticket considering you will not be able to have the attorney with them 24/7.

 

[ograc]

The thread is about apathy, not the cba

With the results of the first local lodge meetings in mind, it is true, this thread is about apathy among the membership. One only needs to examine the numbers, regarding the nomination endorsements, from the locals meeting on 03/01 to realize this. This is a membership that chooses to not be engaged in the nomination/election process, yet critisizes, the elected leadership. Confusing to me. As I stated in my first post, on this thread of Fleet Service apathy, this is the root of our problem. This issue needs to be addressed. How do you get the membership to become more engaged in the democratic process set forth by the IAM? If we cannot find an answer to this question, we are destined to be lead by the wishes of the select minority, who are engaged. Suggestions please.
ograc

 

[niblet]

With the results of the first local lodge meetings in mind, it is true, this thread is about apathy among the membership. One only needs to examine the numbers, regarding the nomination endorsements, from the locals meeting on 03/01 to realize this. This is a membership that chooses to not be engaged in the nomination/election process, yet critisizes, the elected leadership. Confusing to me. As I stated in my first post, on this thread of Fleet Service apathy, this is the root of our problem. This issue needs to be addressed. How do you get the membership to become more engaged in the democratic process set forth by the IAM? If we cannot find an answer to this question, we are destined to be lead by the wishes of the select minority, who are engaged. Suggestions please.
ograc

All I can do is try to engage the members I see and deal with. That being said, I try to engage them all. I think the members like having someone willing to do the work at the union level so they dont have to.

 

[ograc]

All I can do is try to engage the members I see and deal with. That being said, I try to engage them all. I think the members like having someone willing to do the work at the union level so they dont have to.

I try to do the same. You would think there would be more involvement, from the members, when determining their leadership. That being said, many U.S. citizens don't get involved in selecting their next President. Sad state of affairs. It's time to do more prodding I suppose.

 

[Jester]

Well, here's a suggestion for those running for an elected position within the union... post why the Membership should elect you, and include your name and station. It does not matter if people cannot vote for you because it is a different station from their own, because it might lead to a discussion or provide ideas for other candidates.

As far as I am concerned if one is running for an elected position within our union, there is no legitimate excuse to avoid this forum and refuse to identify oneself, as it is free. (Maybe the Mods could grant an exception for people to have multiple accounts using their real name as running for an office in order to avoid problems with the Company speaking anonymously under a handle in other situations.)

So Proposes Jester.

 

[exramper]

The whole apathy problem comes down to one basic problem, and its not just Fleet but all jobs at USAir...here it is..USAir under America West management is a sh#t company to work for. They don't care about the employees and it shows in the morale of ALL employees. Take a look sometime at the pilots and F/A videos with Doug. They come right out and tell him that hes doing a bad job with the employees and he doesn't care. After the last five stations were sent to the street I know of two Human Resource people and two shift managers that quit USAir because of the way the employees were treated and sent to the street. Yes, the union also sucks, but with the morale being so low from getting beat up with the company, nobody really cares and it's hard to get people to rally when they just don't care anymore. Hell, if the company treated people with respect and cared about them we wouldn't need a union. Also, if you want a good laugh go on wings and click on video of the big management party in PHX last week and take a look at the idiots at the top of this company dancing and cheering and then wonder why we have problems.

 

[Harry Callahan]

The whole apathy problem comes down to one basic problem, and its not just Fleet but all jobs at USAir...here it is..USAir under America West management is a sh#t company to work for. They don't care about the employees and it shows in the morale of ALL employees. Take a look sometime at the pilots and F/A videos with Doug. They come right out and tell him that hes doing a bad job with the employees and he doesn't care. After the last five stations were sent to the street I know of two Human Resource people and two shift managers that quit USAir because of the way the employees were treated and sent to the street. Yes, the union also sucks, but with the morale being so low from getting beat up with the company, nobody really cares and it's hard to get people to rally when they just don't care anymore. Hell, if the company treated people with respect and cared about them we wouldn't need a union. Also, if you want a good laugh go on wings and click on video of the big management party in PHX last week and take a look at the idiots at the top of this company dancing and cheering and then wonder why we have problems.

A BIG +1.

 

[robbedagain]

A BIG PLUS 2

 

[ograc]

A BIG PLUS 2

A BIG PLUS 3
But I don't intend to go down or to the street without resistance. Hell' I've lost track of how many CEOs and Presidents we've had since I've been employed. We need to hang on and hold together. We're like dogs that have been beat too much.

 

[ograc]

Well, here's a suggestion for those running for an elected position within the union... post why the Membership should elect you, and include your name and station. It does not matter if people cannot vote for you because it is a different station from their own, because it might lead to a discussion or provide ideas for other candidates.

As far as I am concerned if one is running for an elected position within our union, there is no legitimate excuse to avoid this forum and refuse to identify oneself, as it is free. (Maybe the Mods could grant an exception for people to have multiple accounts using their real name as running for an office in order to avoid problems with the Company speaking anonymously under a handle in other situations.)

So Proposes Jester.

Duly noted Jester. Unfortunately, people on this forum who may be candidates must remain anonymous, for it is without a doubt the company monitors this forum. I am certain, as we get closer to the election, there will be plenty of literature circulated in the workplace soliciting your support and vote. Names, stations and most important qualifications should be reviewed and discussed among the members. I am hopeful this information will then be brought to the forum for review and opinion. I can assure you there are candidates who monitor and are members of this forum.

 

[ChockJockey]

The whole apathy problem comes down to one basic problem, and its not just Fleet but all jobs at USAir...here it is..USAir under America West management is a sh#t company to work for. They don't care about the employees and it shows in the morale of ALL employees. Take a look sometime at the pilots and F/A videos with Doug. They come right out and tell him that hes doing a bad job with the employees and he doesn't care. After the last five stations were sent to the street I know of two Human Resource people and two shift managers that quit USAir because of the way the employees were treated and sent to the street. Yes, the union also sucks, but with the morale being so low from getting beat up with the company, nobody really cares and it's hard to get people to rally when they just don't care anymore. Hell, if the company treated people with respect and cared about them we wouldn't need a union. Also, if you want a good laugh go on wings and click on video of the big management party in PHX last week and take a look at the idiots at the top of this company dancing and cheering and then wonder why we have problems.

Be that as it may, there's very little that any of us can do about what management think, feel, or do. They've made it clear that this is how they intend to run the company, so this is a condition we'll have to work with or around. We should be mindful of those problems we cannot solve but work on those we actually can.

 

[exramper]

Another thing I forgot to mention in my earlier rant...yesterday while looking at USAirs stock in yahoo finance there was a little article that I found interesting. While Doug is crying how we have to save money and throwing people on the street, USAir is asking any non profit organization located in the hubs if they would like help. USAirways will donate $250,000 to them. I know this is basically a tax write off but it makes me all warm and fuzzy inside knowing when I can't feed my family because I can't find work I can go to the PHL soup kitchen to feed the gang. Thanks Doug for the Hallmark moment....

 

[exramper]

Chockjockey, This was just my opinion on what the problem is..I agree we really can't do anything because the company treats us like garbage and the union doesn't have the balls to do anything..so everyone just comes to work like zombies and does just enough to get by until retirement or you get thrown out. I know some people that went to work for Southwest and during their initial training they were told the employee is number one in the companies eyes, because when the employee is treated as number one, they pass that on to the customer and this leads to a successful airline. USAir could have been a very successful airline if Doug and his band of misfits had the same thoughts.What problems can we solve if we are at a roadblock with both the company and the union???

 

[Tim Nelson]

The whole apathy problem comes down to one basic problem, and its not just Fleet but all jobs at USAir...here it is..USAir under America West management is a sh#t company to work for. They don't care about the employees and it shows in the morale of ALL employees. Take a look sometime at the pilots and F/A videos with Doug. They come right out and tell him that hes doing a bad job with the employees and he doesn't care. After the last five stations were sent to the street I know of two Human Resource people and two shift managers that quit USAir because of the way the employees were treated and sent to the street. Yes, the union also sucks, but with the morale being so low from getting beat up with the company, nobody really cares and it's hard to get people to rally when they just don't care anymore. Hell, if the company treated people with respect and cared about them we wouldn't need a union. Also, if you want a good laugh go on wings and click on video of the big management party in PHX last week and take a look at the idiots at the top of this company dancing and cheering and then wonder why we have problems.

management is management. That's a given. My focus is on the actions of the collective bargaining agent. The union [the masses] can change and increase leverage. Right now the union, i.e., the masses, are a beaten dog. There is no relationship between the collective bargaining agent and the union so the distrust of a beaten dog is the exact sorta predicament we should expect. When they locked out BUF and broke the labor agreement, there were things that the union could have done in solidarity but it couldn't since the collective bargaining agent hasn't developed any sorta relationship or trust with the membership. The process of socializing solidarity for the masses hasn't happened. There is no legitimated solidarity, much less internalization of it. Externalizing it is totally out of the question. Essentially, the level of solidarity needed to gain respect is truly lacking. The witness to this predicament are the images, i.e., images in negotiations, images in stations, etc.

The social construction of solidarity is an academic exercise. And none of our elected leaders have been trained or skilled in such socialization techniques. They are in way over their heads in many ways. And I'm not saying that I have all the answers. But, it would be a big huge step forward if any of them ever consciously understood that they are not equipped. BECAUSE, if they understood, then they would truly have their eyes open and realize they need to surround themselves with professionals also.

www.occupyiam141.com

regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

should have our entire slate up on monday.

regards,