Fleet Service apathy

[roabilly]

Nah, that isn't true Roabily. Two different leaders can and will have two different outcomes. The present system in this union is broke and the president and the AGC's are set up to fail. Change is needed at not only the President but we also have to update our ideas into this century. Our union is fading into irrelevancy and obsoleteness and we must have a sense of urgency and empower the masses. The symptom is that nobody even hardly shows up in the local meetings and it is time that a leadership team assess that and reach out to the membership instead of blaming them. There is a sociological reason why there is little connection between leadership and member. OTOH, I have put forth a plan and it is a plan that will bring forth urgency, activism, and a winning edge that will be productive. Right now, there hasn't been any productivity over 4 years and you need to stop blaming Canale 4 years later for no production other than LOA that support management lockouts. Cripes, Delaney doesn't even have a plan and he's the current president.

Ask the pilots who stubbornly kept their leader in there for 6 years. Is that the road you want us all to go down Roabily? Just keep insanity going? They just changed out their leader and now they have a chance to move things forward. We already know what Delaney is capable of, just look at the Hawaiain disaster or the botched UA/CO merger talks, so it makes no sense at all to continue on with such insanity since you have a potential merger at US AIRWAYS and negotiations that will hopefully start picking up other than one day meetings, once every two months.

There are sharp contrast between my style and Delaney's. He wants the membership to 'stand down' as he practices paternalisms that just don't connect in this age, I want the membership to engage by being transparent, informative, and building solidarity through the same sorta team building that I already have done when I lead a District department. Only by engaging the membership and giving them the empowerments through information and knowledge can we have a chance to move things forward. Having a membership stand down is not an option. Without changing the way this union does business and if we keep the 'good ole boy' system, then nothing else matters and you will not even remotely get a fair contract. The system is broke. It isn't working. And the reason is because the leadership refuses to engage the members and refuses to bring the members along as partners. It's a sociological concern that must be addressed and it starts with building a relationship between member and leadership. Same principles I used as a District leader over the past two years and it's quite successful when a leader gets out of his office and builds teams! What you have now is a President who hasn't cracked the Local hall in CLT since he got voted in, and an AGC who told you that "Rich was different and wouldn't just come around during elections." Well, we both know that wasn't true.

Click: This is How it is done!
Onward!

That's exactly what you told us in 2008!

Nelson... The most likely scenario to transpire "IF" you become President is this... you will get the Union sued for illegal job actions... and/or you will be forced to "stand down" on all of your foolish promises!

Let's just face reality... this is not the "Wild West" and you are not Wyatt Earp! Just consult that entire regiment of Lawyers you want to hire... they will tell you the same thing I'm telling you.

You are attempting to lead this Membership into "boxed canyon" with no means of retreat... does that make you feel you good?

 

[Tim Nelson]

That's exactly what you told us in 2008!

Nelson... The most likely scenario to transpire "IF" you become President is this... you will get the Union sued for illegal job actions... and/or you will be forced to "stand down" on all of your foolish promises!

Let's just face reality... this is not the "Wild West" and you are not Wyatt Earp! Just consult that entire regiment of Lawyers you want to hire... they will tell you the same thing I'm telling you.

You are attempting to lead this Membership into "boxed canyon" with no means of retreat... does that make you feel you good?

Roabily,

Your presumptions are in error. "Legal" participation by the masses will be awesome but getting the membership active starts by building teams and actually having a relationship between the leadership and the masses. Then, and only then, can we mobilize the masses in ways that are perfectly legal.

What promises are foolish? And although you don't believe that any of us would participate in the give back program, what if you are wrong and we do? Will you consider that you may be wrong and that $400,000 back to the members is a worthy act to do? Better to day, "I don't believe it will happen but if it does then that's pretty cool", than all the ranting and raving you and PJ are doing against a very worthy idea.

Video: The Give Back Program

Onward!

 

[700UW]

Your not giving money back to the membership, your giving it back to the District Lodge, and who know what the International will do since they pay half the salaries.

 

[roabilly]

Roabily,

Your presumptions are in error. "Legal" participation by the masses will be awesome but getting the membership active starts by building teams and actually having a relationship between the leadership and the masses. Then, and only then, can we mobilize the masses in ways that are perfectly legal.

What promises are foolish? And although you don't believe that any of us would participate in the give back program, what if you are wrong and we do? Will you consider that you may be wrong and that $400,000 back to the members is a worthy act to do? Better to day, "I don't believe it will happen but if it does then that's pretty cool", than all the ranting and raving you and PJ are doing against a very worthy idea.

Video: The Give Back Program

Onward!

My presumptions are always in error when they do not support placing you on a pedestal and proclaiming you as God’s gift to Labor!

Can you tell me specifically what you would do to “mobilize the masses” legally… other than whipping them into a frenzy with rhetoric and false hope?

I would like for everyone to closely follow the Flight Attendants in the rejection of their T/A yesterday. This is actually how the Membership legally negotiates with the Company… it’s real simple... if you don’t like what they are offering you vote NO!

You then have to go through the entire process per the RLA of sending the Union back to the table for another try… and so forth and so on. There are NO shortcuts or magic that Tim, or anyone else can provide to change this… period!

 

[rockit2]

Folks, what alot of you don't understand, is that this is the first time US has had someone run for the district president. Instead of tearing down the man you should support him and all US members on the ballott. No more second place or being ignored by the district. Delaney doesn't know we exist, Karen A will only be loyal to the UA PCE. This is our chance to finally get recognition in the District
Don't blow this opportunity, put your personal feelings aside and support your US brothers to take controll of district 141.

 

[roabilly]

Folks, what alot of you don't understand, is that this is the first time US has had someone run for the district president. Instead of tearing down the man you should support him and all US members on the ballott. No more second place or being ignored by the district. Delaney doesn't know we exist, Karen A will only be loyal to the UA PCE. This is our chance to finally get recognition in the District
Don't blow this opportunity, put your personal feelings aside and support your US brothers to take controll of district 141.

OK… so... let’s just say Tim gets elected... what will this supposed recognition in the District do to change the complex legal regulations that we have to adhere to in negotiations and the grievance procedure?

The only thing I have against Tim personally is I don’t agree with him on the occupy platform. However, I do agree we need more membership awareness and participation, thus the apathy heading in this thread. But… this can all be accomplished without gutting the entire Leadership and sending some the best AGC’s and Grievance Committee Leaders we have ever had packing… just because they share the same views as me... and won't kiss Tim's behind.

I’m not the only one to share these views… many members are now realizing the magnitude, and possible ramifications of this radical concept that Tim has masterminded.

 

[saywhat]

Folks, what alot of you don't understand, is that this is the first time US has had someone run for the district president. Instead of tearing down the man you should support him and all US members on the ballott. No more second place or being ignored by the district. Delaney doesn't know we exist, Karen A will only be loyal to the UA PCE. This is our chance to finally get recognition in the District
Don't blow this opportunity, put your personal feelings aside and support your US brothers to take controll of district 141.

I prefer a different approach regarding US involvement. US should ask for a spokeperson leadership role for purposes of getting newsletter and web page front page space etc. and push this with our UA brothers and sisters so that we all worked in concert together as a team. Voting for just US employees and not including a balanced approach could backfire. If UA voted for just UA people we could end up with ZERO people in District leadership positions.

 

[rockit2]

OK… so... let’s just say Tim gets elected... what will this supposed recognition in the District do to change the complex legal regulations that we have to adhere to in negotiations and the grievance procedure?

The only thing I have against Tim personally is I don’t agree with him on the occupy platform. However, I do agree we need more membership awareness and participation, thus the apathy heading in this thread. But… this can all be accomplished without gutting the entire Leadership and sending some the best AGC’s and Grievance Committee Leaders we have ever had packing… just because they share the same views as me... and won't kiss Tim's behind.

I’m not the only one to share these views… many members are now realizing the magnitude, and possible ramifications of this radical concept that Tim has masterminded.

Ok vote for the existing agc's that you like but the point I'm trying to make is " Let's take control of District 141 " from the top down. Karen and Rich could care less about US we are only dues money without a say in anything. The district bungled the Buf deal with out even putting up a fight, the day the guy's were booted noone from the union was there but there were plenty of company and security .

 

[roabilly]

Ok vote for the existing agc's that you like but the point I'm trying to make is " Let's take control of District 141 " from the top down. Karen and Rich could care less about US we are only dues money without a say in anything. The district bungled the Buf deal with out even putting up a fight, the day the guy's were booted noone from the union was there but there were plenty of company and security .

Now I think it is time to clarify something... saywhat... Tim... 700... can any of you help me with this?

My understanding is this will not be an option... you either vote Tim's ticket top to bottom... or you vote N/D top to bottom... no mix and match...
I know there are a lot of members in CLT that are under the impression it will be mixed ballot... we need clarification!

This is HUGE... and will make a BIG difference in how this election plays out!

 

[john john]

Here's a fun twist,suppose there actually is a purchase of AA,who do you vote for in a representational election? Post term sheet the numbers of employees in the Fleet Service classification at both carriers will be roughly in the same ballpark.

Lot of very unhappy TWU people in AA land and the TWA guys are a virtual lock to vote IAM.

Good times ahead.

The IAM US needs to produce a contract worthy of keeping them on the property or at lest better then AA TWU

 

[Tim Nelson]

Your not giving money back to the membership, your giving it back to the District Lodge, and who know what the International will do since they pay half the salaries.

700. You make absolutely no sense whatsoever. The INTL pays half the salaries, ok but we already know that, right? Big deal! Are you saying that the INTL is going to be against officers throwing money back to the membership in scholarship grants paid for out of the pockets of its officers? The INTL doesn't tell anyone how to spend their salaries. District officers can spend their salaries in casinos, on automobiles, at the grocery stores, etc. Your post defies logic!

On the contrary, the INTL encourages giving money back to the MNPL, guide dogs, etc., and would be appreciative [just like anyone else] if thousands and thousands of charitable donations came in to support our broke locals with monies used for education and delegation teams. You don't make any sense 700. But, it is better for you simply to say "I don't believe you will give money back but if you do then that is an honorable thing", instead of all the silly illogical comments you continue to make as you presume you know what is going to happen. Do you think anyone needs permission from the INTL on how to spend their salary???

regards,

 

[saywhat]

Now I think it is time to clarify something... saywhat... Tim... 700... can any of you help me with this?

My understanding is this will not be an option... you either vote Tim's ticket top to bottom... or you vote N/D top to bottom... no mix and match...
I know there are a lot of members in CLT that are under the impression it will be mixed ballot... we need clarification!

This is HUGE... and will make a BIG difference in how this election plays out!

Roabilly,

This is an interesting subject. You do NOT have to vote for one ticket and you CAN mix and match as long as you vote for the correct amount in each position. Here's where it gets interesting. Every LL will vote on a different day in June and for example if a predominant US station like CLT votes all US people on say June 9th and a predominant UA station like say ORD votes on June 11th there can be a payback which will never benefit US because we are trumped by UA in size. I sure hope US employees don't go down a path which may cause even more pain. Slates are generally IMO the best route to go when you are trying to balance things out.

 

[Tim Nelson]

My presumptions are always in error when they do not support placing you on a pedestal and proclaiming you as God’s gift to Labor!

Can you tell me specifically what you would do to “mobilize the masses” legally… other than whipping them into a frenzy with rhetoric and false hope?

I would like for everyone to closely follow the Flight Attendants in the rejection of their T/A yesterday. This is actually how the Membership legally negotiates with the Company… it’s real simple... if you don’t like what they are offering you vote NO!

You then have to go through the entire process per the RLA of sending the Union back to the table for another try… and so forth and so on. There are NO shortcuts or magic that Tim, or anyone else can provide to change this… period!

The fundamental problem of IAM 141 is that each and every President and AGC is set up to fail under the current structure. These failings are unfortunately witnessed by the fact that no matter what airline we are talking about, our members are suffering. It really wouldn't matter if it was Nelson, Canale, Delaney or anyone else if we simply changed out names. And this isn't a game of "My AGC's are better than someone else's" The problem is a sociological one that is set up on a cultural paradigm that has passed away a long time ago. And we must fix that because the only way anyone is going to get even a fair contract is through the participation of the membership. You could have Superman as your president and you will not get any fairness if the sickness and obsoleteness of this union is not treated with a prescription to make it healthy. My education allows me to see the symptom and the fact that there is a true generational gap that is absolutely killing this union at the table and in the Local halls. In truncated fashion, the occupy 141 team has proven District leadership experience and has signed on to agree to a paradigm shift from paternal[ism] to member empowerment. This is represented in the Occupy 141 platform.

Gone will be the days of having our membership 'stand down'. Our members will necessarily be active, informed, and not left ignorant because we will ask them to respond and 'stand up'. When approaching the problem of the predicament of our district, our platform had to recognize a more academic approach that not only assesses and prescribes socializational techniques to empower the members but also commits professionals as additional resources for the membership. Therefore, the 3 pillars of our platform, i.e., transparency, accountability, and solidarity can be fully engaged.

Of course, getting a membership to participate means actually having a relationship with them. Thus, trust has to be built and the best way to build trust is by sacrifice. And that brings us back to the Occupy 141 platform.

Roabily, negotiation isn't about standing down and waiting on a new offer or any offer at all. Negotiations takes place outside the negotiations room and involves activity by the membership. That's the 'juice'. I haven't kept up with the flight attendants but my presumption is that they will be active and stand up. A rejection of terms is just that. Changing the terms will necessarily be about activity and building leverage with solidarity team building. Legal activities come in many fashions that incorporate civil rights. At the very basic level, this could mean informational picketing.

Onward!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Roabilly,

This is an interesting subject. You do NOT have to vote for one ticket and you CAN mix and match as long as you vote for the correct amount in each position. Here's where it gets interesting. Every LL will vote on a different day in June and for example if a predominant US station like CLT votes all US people on say June 9th and a predominant UA station like say ORD votes on June 11th there can be a payback which will never benefit US because we are trumped by UA in size. I sure hope US employees don't go down a path which may cause even more pain. Slates are generally IMO the best route to go when you are trying to balance things out.

ORD votes on June 5. PHL votes on June 5. LAX votes on June 5. The biggest UA hub, IAH votes on June 6. CLT votes on June 14. CLT should have some interesting information by then.

BTW, both slates opposing the ND did far better than ND in the two biggest UA hubs combined. Time will tell what happens and alot of hard work to do by all parties.

Onward!

 

[rockit2]

Roabilly,

This is an interesting subject. You do NOT have to vote for one ticket and you CAN mix and match as long as you vote for the correct amount in each position. Here's where it gets interesting. Every LL will vote on a different day in June and for example if a predominant US station like CLT votes all US people on say June 9th and a predominant UA station like say ORD votes on June 11th there can be a payback which will never benefit US because we are trumped by UA in size. I sure hope US employees don't go down a path which may cause even more pain. Slates are generally IMO the best route to go when you are trying to balance things out.

If clt votes on one day and ord on another, who is leaking the info. It is my understanding that the ballots are sealed and counted at the same time to discourage the unequal playing field.