Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[topDawg]

 
From Blue Notes Organizing:
 

 

 

ehhh sorry but i'd take the under on 15 bucks an hour part. 
 
 
just the pilots/FAs/Mechanics and Merit will make up more than half the company. Not many of them make less than 15 an hour. 

 

[700UW]

You do realize he was talking about ACS where over 40% is Ready Reserve and Delta is striving for 50% of the ACS workforce being Ready Reserve.
 
Check this out:
 
http://www.audriesaircraftanalysis.com/job-statistics/?airline=DL

 

[topDawg]

You do realize he was talking about ACS where over 40% is Ready Reserve and Delta is striving for 50% of the ACS workforce being Ready Reserve.
 
Check this out:
 
http://www.audriesaircraftanalysis.com/job-statistics/?airline=DL

oh i missed the part about it being ACS. The quote made is seem like it was all of Delta. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

ah so now I'm stupid and lazy? 
 
Southwind, care to jump in here? 
 
So don't answer any of my questions and just go to name calling. Good work.

you missed the "IF"

there are two of them in what I wrote.

IF you believe it has been so bad, why are you still at DL.

IF it is that bad and you have stayed, what reason would you use to justify that decision?

after a couple of decades, it would certainly seem that anyone who really wasn't satisfied with their work experience and wanted to be could have figured out how to do so.

 

[700UW]

 

[robbedagain]

sounds like DL fired him bec he chose to use his right to freedom of speech and tell it the way it is  and good ole mighty wiget did not like the truth and they fired him   

 

[WorldTraveler]

I seem to recall AA fired some of its own unionized employees for making videos as well..... perhaps you can refresh us how that was able to happen.

 

[700UW]

At AA he was in uniform and his diatribe was profanity laced and attacked AA, and its Executives.
 
Big difference.

 

[Kev3188]

#JusticeforKip

 

[topDawg]

you missed the "IF"

there are two of them in what I wrote.

IF you believe it has been so bad, why are you still at DL.

IF it is that bad and you have stayed, what reason would you use to justify that decision?

after a couple of decades, it would certainly seem that anyone who really wasn't satisfied with their work experience and wanted to be could have figured out how to do so.

Don't ever call someone stupid WT. Pot, kettle, black.....
 
 
the fact that you still ask me and kev that stupid ass question is amazing to me. You have been told 5,000 times why people like us stay around and you still don't get it. People like you are the reason Delta's labor relations went to hell under your buddies Leo and Ron. It is, I and know this is difficult for someone on the outside to understand, possible that we are, overall, happy with our jobs/companies and want to see change. It is possible that pay isn't the only thing that makes a good QOL. 
Your problem is all you want to do is make Delta out to be the best and you want to look at numbers and numbers only. Sometimes stats don't show the truth. 
 
now try to get that inside your thick head........

 

[WorldTraveler]

I appreciate your response but you said your pay has gone down for your entire career. As far as I know, you were an original DL hire.

Kev came in via the merger.

I get the whole thing about QOL vs. pay but your statements here seem to indicate that there isn't much about your job that you have enjoyed - pay or QOL.

Leo and Ron are not by buds, friends, or anything else.

I have absolutely no problems with anyone working for improvements. I really don't.

what I find hard to understand is how you post as much as you do about what is wrong with your job and yet have stayed as long as you have.

Sure, I want to see DL be the best and I am a numbers guy - but not in isolation. I had my share of frustrations and things I wanted to fix; in some cases I was able to for more than just my dept. You really don't know the projects I worked on that were for the benefit of DL employees and had nothing to do with pay.

You can argue the point about reality vs. stats all you want but in the end that stat that matters about labor relations is that DL has successfully retained its direct mgmt. employee model despite multiple elections over many decades.

I have no problem w/ you or Kev or anyone else expressing your opinion.

but surely you can find something good about what DL does from more than just an operational standpoint.


I do respect that you undoubtedly know and do your job well.

let's also keep in mind that we really don't know each other from Adam's housecat.

This is an anonymous chat board. Don't get too worked up about what is said between people who may but probably won't ever meet.

 

[topDawg]

I appreciate your response but you said your pay has gone down for your entire career. As far as I know, you were an original DL hire.

And, for the most part it has. The 80s to the Iraq war, to 7.5 to Leo to BK to now. Sure there are peaks in that time frame but even now, I don't make nearly as much as I did before BK*
 
*note, I know Delta doesn't believe inflation is a real thing, but I mean when inflation is added. 
 

I get the whole thing about QOL vs. pay but your statements here seem to indicate that there isn't much about your job that you have enjoyed - pay or QOL.

I have never said such a thing. I b**ch about what Delta does that is bad......
but if someone asks me a question about something positive then I will answer that too. 
 
Most of us end up getting forced into the negative side because you try to blow so much sun shine up peoples butts that someone around here has to show the bad side too. 
 

what I find hard to understand is how you post as much as you do about what is wrong with your job and yet have stayed as long as you have.

I just told you. Just because Delta outsources to much doesn't mean I am jumping ship and heading to AA. 
 
and when you have the time a guy like me has you would be a fool to leave and start over. 
 

Sure, I want to see DL be the best and I am a numbers guy - but not in isolation. I had my share of frustrations and things I wanted to fix; in some cases I was able to for more than just my dept. You really don't know the projects I worked on that were for the benefit of DL employees and had nothing to do with pay.

you are in isolation now. Maybe not then, but your post prove that all you want to do is talking about numbers. 
 
 All one has to do is look back at the AA FA contract to see all you could do is talk about profit sharing. When I and others pointed out that the TA might have other QOL increases, none of it mattered. Just profit sharing. 
 
I'd dump my profit sharing check tomorrow for other gains. they would have to be large, but I would do it. 

You can argue the point about reality vs. stats all you want but in the end that stat that matters about labor relations is that DL has successfully retained its direct mgmt. employee model despite multiple elections over many decades.

No that isn't all that matters. Delta, for the FAs for sure, keeps getting closer and closer to a union. 
 
Why don't you go back and see how many times that happened before Ron showed up. How many times did Delta have a union vote and if they did what the margins were compared to today...... 
 

but surely you can find something good about what DL does from more than just an operational standpoint.

 
Sure. Profit sharing is nice. The pay is good. I like the 401K match, but it should be better. The MRO side of the house is great. 
 
and most of all the way, for the most part, Delta treats us in MX. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

I appreciate your perspective, dawg.
I think you said more positive in that one post than I have read in many others.

Yes, I get the contest of wills that goes on between people on this board.

I have "a role" that incites debate and I know full well that it results in responses to the opposite extreme.

I talk about numbers because they are publicly available and they also pretty much do show DL in a pretty positive light... DL is a very well run company.

doesn't mean that others aren't... but there are some major philosophical differences of how an airline should be run for the long-term. A lot of people see an AA-DL debate and that is true... but AA is making decisions and strategic plans based on a very different model than DL.

TO be fair, DL had a major soul-searching about how to run its business even before BK; BK was just an opportunity to execute on the plans DL had in place. Finances and operational changes were part of it.... but so was a recognition that DL had lost its employee culture which was far stronger when I was hired.. .and I suspect when you were as well.

I have repeatedly said that DL runs a good business in part because employee job security is a huge motivator to do a good job and a huge distraction when it isn't there. WN has done a very good job of protecting its employees from that noise. DL put its employees thru it for half of the time between deregulation and BK.

the industry as a whole and the economy overall are not kind to employees of any company any more. You only have to look at discussions on this board that have nothing to do with DL to realize that there are a lot of people who would be happy for just QOL improvements.

and while you and Kev say you would trade pay or profit sharing (or some of it) for QOL increases, the vast majorit of people will not. DL knows full well that in a capitalist society, things have to be pretty bad before most people give up pursuit of wealth. The simply reality is that most DL people and most Americans would NOT trade pay or profit sharing for QOL but they sure do want both of them. QOL at DL is just not that bad compared to the industry overall or many other 24/7 businesses.

I appreciate your perspective and what you have contributed to DL... the legacy that is DL didn't start or stop at one point in time which means that the ribbon goes way back and includes a lot of people - some of whom are still there but others who have come and gone.

I, and they, are not as removed from the DL reality as you might want to believe.

 

[Kev3188]

Kev came in via the merger.

...Which means I have the perspective of having worked for another carrier (a couple, actually)...

The QOL/working conditions are worse here than I experienced at other airlines- and considering that that list includes YV, that's saying something.

...and yeah, I'd trade my PS check in a heartbeat for any number of things; monetary & not both.

The current system(s) aren't set up to affect actual change,and legally, they can't, even if they wanted to.

Absent a collective effort, the company has no reason to anyway. The only way to make that happen is through representation.

 

[WorldTraveler]

and you just have to convince about 5000 or your coworkers... yes, I know that is why you are here.

they aren't convinced either that it is so bad here or that they would be willing to trade pay for QOL.

if they did, there would be a union at DL.