Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[Glenn Quagmire]

You still truly have no idea about the RLA and Section 6.
Ever hear of an impasse, a thirty day cooling off period or CHAOS?
If DL negotiates in Bad Faith there are consequences and ramifications

Exactly:

"Once Section 6 notices proposing changes to an existing agreement have been served, the parties must maintain the status quo (no strikes or lockouts or promulgation of changes) until all procedures of the RLA have been fully exhausted.

For major disputes over wages, benefits and working conditions, the RLA provides for a three-member National Mediation Board, appointed by the president and confirmed by the Senate, with the power to mediate any dispute between carriers and their employees at the request of either party or upon the board's own motion.

There is no time limit on the mediation procedure. The NMB controls the schedule of talks and only the NMB may release the parties from mediation.

If the NMB is unable to bring about an amicable settlement of the controversy through mediation, the board is required to use its influence to induce the parties voluntarily to submit to binding arbitration. The law is specific in that arbitration is voluntary and not compulsory."

http://www.pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/reference/RLA_Simplified.html

There will be no 'arbitration' and industry average as a result of any section 6 negotiation. There would be self-help.

 

[WorldTraveler]

again, DL doesn't have to change ANYTHING for the FAs if they unionize. All it has to do is STOP the wage and profit sharing increases that have been the norm for DL employees over the past several years but continue it for non-contract employees plus pilots.

you and the Machinists union will have a very hard time arguing that DL did anything wrong by not continuing the increases that DL has given out with regularity if the FAs unionized.

 

[WeAAsles]

again, DL doesn't have to change ANYTHING for the FAs if they unionize. All it has to do is STOP the wage and profit sharing increases that have been the norm for DL employees over the past several years but continue it for non-contract employees plus pilots.

I thought the Pilots were organized? So you're saying that even though the Pilots have a CBA the company can give them raises too if they want outside of the contract? Kind of like what AA did for their Flight Attendants right?

you and the Machinists union will have a very hard time arguing that DL did anything wrong by not continuing the increases that DL has given out with regularity if the FAs unionized.

I see that you have taken up the same tag line as DL management in referring to the IAM as the Machinists union. My friend in NYC worked for Yellow Pages .com and was represented by the IBEW. Electrical workers Union. And the TWU represents card dealers in Vegas. So who cares what the name is on the license plate.

 

[700UW]

He truly is ignorant or just plain stupid.

 

[WeAAsles]

He truly is ignorant or just plain stupid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyCGEHYvgsU

 

[WorldTraveler]

DL is negotiating with the pilots right now and the DALPA has shown that it is wiling to effectively work with the company to allow it to achieve its strategic goals... not unlike what WN does.

some people can't admit that a new union will not have that track record and DL just like any other company is going to put the brakes on the goodies until the FAs and the union demonstrate what type of climate it wants to create.

DL is simply not going to allow a work group to organize and maintain the same above industry rate of compensation increases that has marked DL for the past several years when the nature of a union dictates that disagreements in the negotiation process are settled via industry average comparisons.

 

[700UW]

Clueless.

You have been gone over eight years you don't know what delta will or won't do.

Labor unrest is something Wall Street doesn't like.

DL won't treat the unionized FAs any different than the pilots or dispatchers.

 

[WorldTraveler]

so you are threatening labor unrest if DL doesn't keep throwing the bennies out like they did before?

it is the candy store mentality - at gunpoint.

DL will treat each workgroup based on what they deliver for the company. If you and others think that DL's QOL is so bad and has to be "upgraded to industry standard" work rules, then DL will impose industry standard pay and profit sharing.

it isn't a difficult concept for anyone without a bias - which would exclude you and most of the people on here - to figure out.

 

[700UW]

So says someone delta paid to leave eight years ago.

You certainly don't have a clue on what delta will or wont do.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I do know that Kev couldn't have correctly argued that DL paid its non-contract employees a premium to be union free and now for you to expect DL to continue the same thing after a union vote.

the two cannot both be true.

and I do believe that Kev is right.

DL is not going to pay its non-contract premium rates and PS once they become unionized until the union demonstrates that it will deliver the same level of productivity that DL has enjoyed up to this point.

given that all of the talk here is about work rules and QOL, it is impossible to believe that a union can maintain DL's historic level of productivity.

 

[700UW]

Then why does WN employees earn more?

You not DL labor relations and never were.

DALPA has a great relationship with management why can't the FAs after they unionize?

You took the money and ran over eight years ago, you have no idea what will happen and you are the only one making threats, maybe I should send your threats to corporate.

 

[topDawg]

you all have been arguing for years that DL could reduce pay and benefits at any time.

Because they can. Delta can cut my pay tomorrow. They can outsource anything tomorrow. Its clear you don't get this, by some act of God, or you are just acting stupid. 
 

now that it is obvious that they can do exactly that, you don't want to admit it.

Jesus man. 
 
Okay stay will me, I will try to keep this as simple as possible. 
When you get enough cards to call for a union vote then the company can not make large changes to that groups benefit package. So now that Delta's FAs have called for a vote Delta can't make large changes for or against the FA group. 
 
They can make small changes, ie a 2% raise, but its unlikely to happen since they just got a raise to match American. 
 
But for the rest of the work groups, or the FAs if they vote down a union then Delta can do whatever they want whenever they want. 
 

DL doesn't have to agree to anything the IAM proposes and if they don't, DL simply has to push for arbitration and argue for industry neutral.

Delta can push for arbitration all the want. But the arbitrator isn't going to rule in your favor here. They don't cut labor when they company is making money hands over fist. At the worst, the FAs could expect to keep the current benefit package + cost of living raises for the life of the contract.
 
Again, none of this matter because Delta isn't butt hurt about this like you are. They will work with the FAs, who will work with Delta, to come to a deal that benefits both groups. I would be willing to bet it will be basically the current package with small yearly raise. Same thing for the pilots. 
 

you are the ones that need to prove that DL's QOL is so bad that people are willing to trade anything economic in order to improve it.

just like i thought. You are talking out of your ass and then when called out on it you run away. Stop speaking for the employees if you have no proof. 
 

As for the RR limits, check with your amigo, Kevin. He has posted them here before.

once again, you are running. If Delta has limits and rules you post them. Don't say they do if you don't know them. I'm not asking Kev anything, so again. WT what are the RR limits? 
 

and you still can't understand that when labor starts telling DL what DL can and cannot do to maintain its productivity, labor will very quickly fall from the position of being as well compensated that DL people are.

I didn't say that. You are the only one saying stupid stuff like this. I have told you that any group that joins a union will work with the company. Delta has different labor than the other carrier. Most FAs I have talked to about this aren't voting because they think the benefits are bad, they are voting so that Delta can't do whatever they want whenever they want and they are voting because this company has to many people like you who want to stick their nose into everyone business and feel the need to run to management over everything. 
 
 
 

DL is negotiating with the pilots right now and the DALPA has shown that it is wiling to effectively work with the company to allow it to achieve its strategic goals... not unlike what WN does.

some people can't admit that a new union will not have that track record and DL just like any other company is going to put the brakes on the goodies until the FAs and the union demonstrate what type of climate it wants to create.

DL is simply not going to allow a work group to organize and maintain the same above industry rate of compensation increases that has marked DL for the past several years when the nature of a union dictates that disagreements in the negotiation process are settled via industry average comparisons.

and like we have tried to explain to you 50 times and you just aren't getting it
 
YOU DO NOT get a good relationship by playing hard ball. You do so by working with each other. You are suggesting that, somehow, Delta gets a concessionary contract but somehow the FA group will be happy about it. Then they will be willing to work with the company?
 
Leo this is why you and your group FAILED. This is why the company went into the crapper. This is why DALPA and management had a shitty relationship till Gerry rebuilt it. 
 
Delta will do the same thing they do now. They will work to come to a quick agreement that wont be concessionary. The FAs will work with Delta to come to a quick contract that benefits the company and the FA group. This isn't American airlines.

 

[topDawg]

I do know that Kev couldn't have correctly argued that DL paid its non-contract employees a premium to be union free and now for you to expect DL to continue the same thing after a union vote.

the two cannot both be true.

and I do believe that Kev is right.

DL is not going to pay its non-contract premium rates and PS once they become unionized until the union demonstrates that it will deliver the same level of productivity that DL has enjoyed up to this point.

given that all of the talk here is about work rules and QOL, it is impossible to believe that a union can maintain DL's historic level of productivity.

by you. I don't believe a single person other than you has said anything about reducing productivity.  This is just like the RR thing, Kev posted like 6 times asking who has said a word about dumping RR. Only you come up with that kind of stuff. 

 

[700UW]

Unions do not take the proffer of arbitration that the NMB will offer it takes away the right to self-help.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

As I posted the facts earlier, with links, arbitration is voluntary under RLA section 6 negotiations.

No union that I know of has ever agreed to it. As 700 posted, it takes away the self-help ability of the union.