Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[topDawg]

Unions do not take the proffer of arbitration that the NMB will offer it takes away the right to self-help.

 
 

As I posted the facts earlier, with links, arbitration is voluntary under RLA section 6 negotiations.

No union that I know of has ever agreed to it. As 700 posted, it takes away the self-help ability of the union.

Very good points that I didn't really think about 
 
Of course the way the NMB has been act as of late you don't have the option for self-help anyways. I can't think of a single group under this administration allowed to go on strike. (was the NK pilot strike under Obama or Bush? I am thinking Bush but might be wrong)  

 

[FWAAA]

The Spirit pilots were allowed to strike in 2010, so that was President Obama. I assumed they were released because NK was too small to make a difference. Their strike didn't really disrupt any material amount of commerce.

 

[topDawg]

The Spirit pilots were allowed to strike in 2010, so that was President Obama. I assumed they were released because NK was too small to make a difference. Their strike didn't really disrupt any material amount of commerce.

Okay couldn't remember. 
 
I know that the part in bold is the exact screw job the 9E pilots got. Oh you can't strike because it would effect Delta. 
 
 
sad that a president for the "labor" party wont let anyone strike but under Bush we had many major strikes. (Comair pilots, AMFA at NW, IAM at Boeing) 

 

[diamondcutter]

I enjoy the peace here on Sunday mornings while WT is preaching at church!!!

 

[WorldTraveler]

by you. I don't believe a single person other than you has said anything about reducing productivity.  This is just like the RR thing, Kev posted like 6 times asking who has said a word about dumping RR. Only you come up with that kind of stuff.

 
I know it's just simple math but if a union imposes work rules which are less productive and more restrictive, productivity will suffer.

The FAs and any other group at DL need to understand that the reason they have been paid as well as they have is because DL has been more productive than its peers for years.

reducing that productivity WILL result in corresponding reductions in compensation.

that is simple logic, reality, and math.

YOU DO NOT get a good relationship by playing hard ball. You do so by working with each other. You are suggesting that, somehow, Delta gets a concessionary contract but somehow the FA group will be happy about it. Then they will be willing to work with the company?

and yet your buddy 700, the internet's most prolific IAM supporter and salesman, is already threatening job action if the DL FAs don't get what he thinks they should

doesn't sound to me like he is much interested in setting up the DL FAs for success - and they need to know that.

 

[700UW]

A union doesn't impose workrules, they are negotiated between the unionized FAs and DL.

Why do you constantly lie and post misinformation even after it has been explained to you over and over?

Where did I make a threat?

I simply explained Section 6 negotiations

You are the only one making threats and they are more than well clearly and in your posts.

You are a liar filled with fear and desperation.

12,000 and counting.

 

[robbedagain]

Fear fear fear someone is full of fear or coming completely unhinged bec his beloved wiget airline is headed towards unionization

 

[WorldTraveler]

A union doesn't impose workrules, they are negotiated between the unionized FAs and DL.

Why do you constantly lie and post misinformation even after it has been explained to you over and over?

Where did I make a threat?

I simply explained Section 6 negotiations

You are the only one making threats and they are more than well clearly and in your posts.

You are a liar filled with fear and desperation.

12,000 and counting.

yes, and I have explained that negotiations are just that... and you have said that if labor can't get what it wants, they have the right to self help.

we all know that.

that is what other airlines do and why the legacy carrier segment of the industry has been one continuous labor disaster after another... and employees from that company DO pay for that type of environment.

companies don't just roll over and say "oh well" when the CHAOS that you mentioned takes place.

dawg is right that DL and its employees want good labor relations.

having you trot out the same failed labor strategies that have been core reasons why airline mgmt. has repeatedly used BK to decimate labor contracts is NOT what DL FAs want.

but we wouldn't expect you to understand it.

you are a salesman for the machinists union with NO experience at DL. NEVER.

If the FAs at DL decide to go with the machinists union, they will have to demonstrate that they will deliver the same above average levels of productivity that has marked DL and its FAs in the past.

and until that proof is on the table, the growth in pay and profit sharing will be halted.

Doing that isn't a very smart thing for any employee in the industry to do given that the airline industry is expecting record profits in 2015 and beyond.

 

[700UW]

You have been gone from DL for over eight years you have no idea what real DL FAs want.

Apparently over 12,000 do.

 

[WorldTraveler]

if your basic facts were even close to right, you might have some place to start.

but they aren't.

which is exactly what we have come to expect from union supporters on here.... facts are just collateral damage in the effort to gain votes and DL employee money.

 

[700UW]

I have stated facts and the law, you have stated threats, lies and misinformation.

 

[topDawg]

I know it's just simple math but if a union imposes work rules which are less productive and more restrictive, productivity will suffer.

Again where in the f**k are you getting this from? You are just getting annoying at this point. 
 

The FAs and any other group at DL need to understand that the reason they have been paid as well as they have is because DL has been more productive than its peers for years.

Show me one, just ONE, work rule the IAM has said they will try to change. Just one. 

 

reducing that productivity WILL result in corresponding reductions in compensation.

Doesn't work like that. Delta can't do what it wants like you think they can. 
 

that is simple logic, reality, and math.

No its the bull s**t in your head not understand how any of this works so you act like its reality. 
 
Do you notice not a single person is buying the truck loads of crap your selling? 

 

and yet your buddy 700, the internet's most prolific IAM supporter and salesman, is already threatening job action if the DL FAs don't get what he thinks they should

Making s**t up again I see. Please give me a direct quote........
 

doesn't sound to me like he is much interested in setting up the DL FAs for success - and they need to know that.

 They need to know that someone who has zero to do with them, IN YOUR SCREWED UP OPINION, is not wanting to set them up for success?
 

if your basic facts were even close to right, you might have some place to start.

but they aren't.

which is exactly what we have come to expect from union supporters on here.... facts are just collateral damage in the effort to gain votes and DL employee money.

you wouldn't know a fact if it jumped up and kicked you right in the ass. 
Me, Kev, 700, and Glenn have explained how this works 400 times and you are still posting the same WT spin, laws are stupid Delta does what it wants horse crap.

 

[WorldTraveler]

tell me what the IAM thinks it is going to improve for DL FAs.

700 has posted endless "billboards" pointing out what is wrong with DL's workrules.

what IS the IAM actually proposing they will change?

if they aren't going to try to touch work rules, what are they promising DL FAs they can change?

and it is precisely when you talk about the specific issues that the IAM thinks they can change at DL and the costs that are associated with doing so that it becomes very apparent how evasive they are in committing to anything.

The IAM is simply throwing anything wrong with DL out there that they think could possibly convince a DL FA to vote for them.

they, and you have NO CONCEPT Of the implications of what will take place if the FAs vote for a union.

as hard as it is for you to understand, DL WILL NOT PAY the FAs the same premium for reduced productivity - which is the only result that can come with "tightened industry standard work rules"

DL FAs need to know - whether you are capable of understanding it - that a vote for the IAM and their promises to improve work rules - WILL RESULT in decreased compensation relative to the industry leading rate of increases that DL employees have seen and relative to the distance that DL has built between its peers.

DL IS NOT going to continue the same rates of pay and compensation increases under more restrictive work rules.


to believe otherwise could only be part of the sales job of a union.

 

[700UW]

The DL FAs are being polled on what the issues are, the flyers put out are the concerns of the grassroot committee organizers.
 
Keep up the lies, misinformation and now your threats, once again.

 

[topDawg]

tell me what the IAM thinks it is going to improve for DL FAs.

I don't know.....you are putting the cart before the horse here. The union will go the group first to see what the hot button issues are. 
 
It might be the FAs simply want a legal binding contract and the protection the union offers without making a single change to any other work rule. 
 
 
but unlike you, I am not a FA, so i don't speak for them. We tend to leave that follishness to you.....

700 has posted endless "billboards" pointing out what is wrong with DL's workrules.

The only thing I have seen 700 really post is the health care cost issue. (which has we just saw, can clearly be changed just a little bit by Delta and not be a big deal) 
 

what IS the IAM actually proposing they will change?

again, I don't pretend to know what is going on like you do. Tossing s**t against the wall does me no good.. 
 
 
of course like i said before, I don't really give the smallest care in the world if the FAs, ramp, above wing, pilots, CEO, DGS, etc. etc. were all to vote in a union. (or vote out a union.) I wont be butt hurt like you if they do(or be butt hurt if they don't.)
 
but I am not going to sit here and post misinformation based on lies or stupidity like you have been doing. (and I will be glad to keep pointing out that you are wrong when you do) 
 

if they aren't going to try to touch work rules, what are they promising DL FAs they can change?

Keep asking that question...... 

 

The IAM is simply throwing anything wrong with DL out there that they think could possibly convince a DL FA to vote for them.

no ****......you do understand they are trying to get voted in right? 
Just like Delta is going to point over every single thing they do best, its the unions job to point out the bad. 
 
IAM coming out and say Delta is a great place for pay and work rules is not the way you get a vote.... 
 

they, and you have NO CONCEPT Of the implications of what will take place if the FAs vote for a union.

Nor do you. All you are doing is guessing based off of your feelings (butt hurt) 
 
at least me and Kev are making educated guess based on.....well you know working there and all. 
 

as hard as it is for you to understand, DL WILL NOT PAY the FAs the same premium for reduced productivity - which is the only result that can come with "tightened industry standard work rules"

I don't believe I have said they would. Clearly if the FAs were to say want to double their 401K match they will probably have to "buy" (5% less profit sharing for example) 
but I also know that the FAs are not going to let Delta do what you are saying they are going to do. 
 

DL FAs need to know - whether you are capable of understanding it - that a vote for the IAM and their promises to improve work rules - WILL RESULT in decreased compensation relative to the industry leading rate of increases that DL employees have seen and relative to the distance that DL has built between its peers.

again, give me one work rule the IAM has said they would change and the said cost of the change in work rule. just one, should be easy for you.