Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[BABABOOY]

http://bedeltabedifferent.com/our-delta-family/

 

[WorldTraveler]

the best part is that once you are part of the DL family, you always will be with all the perks, bennies, and all, including money.

Don't see that every day with families these days.

this is a great story from the site.... having worked a number of SVO-JFK flights which are full of immigrant passengers, I know full well the terror those people knew on their faces. This story is how great customer service can change people's lives....

---

My first experience with Delta started when in January of 2006 I stepped on board of a Delta plane for the first time. I was one of those who had never flown before and I was moving from my country to US. My emotions were going over the top. I did not know where my seat was, where my bags were and the only thing I knew was that I’m going from Moscow to New York City. I was leaving everything behind; my friends and family were staying in Russia. The moment I stepped on board of the aircraft, I knew that I had my family back. Delta’s crew members were the most amazing people I ever met. They were by me every moment I needed. I do not remember their names and time has wiped their faces from my memory, but I’ll never forget that feeling of warmth and comfort they gave me. I carried that over the years. If somebody would have come to me saying that one day I will be working on the same flight as a crew member, I would not believe them. Time has passed but feeling of warmth and comfort stayed.

In 2008 I became Delta employee. Throughout the years I was wearing different hats and covering different positions: from airport customer services to reservations department and now as a flight attendant in inflight services. Delta gave me tremendous opportunities to grow and develop. I was able to explore different departments, had flexibility in schedule and financial support with Delta scholarship funds when I was studying for my Bachelor’s degree. I gained lifetime friends and I am happy to wake up every morning knowing that I am working for the most admired airline in the world. I am a perfect example of Delta’s success. I started as a girl who did not know where to go and Delta guided me to success. Where I am right now is all because of Delta and those amazing employees and managers I have met. My success is your success. I had an opportunity to work for different industries but Delta’s management style, company values and employees cannot be replaced.

 

[metopower]

Why did ALPA get DL Pilots a 20% raise in the past 2 1/2 years and everyone else got 4%-8% in the same time frame?
 
Why is DALPA asking for a 35% raise and the elimination of Profit Sharing?

What happened to ACS and FAs Profit sharing when DALPA agreed to a 33% reduction?

B.s. On both. Profit sharing was changed company wide . Pay raises are in line with what PILOT raises are ...not doctors or lawyer or scientist or FA's or ACS. No openers have been presented on contract 2015 so stop with YOUR miss information. Your just an outsider .you must be envious or something.

 

[Kev3188]

It's nice watching you guys working in tandem.

Meto-- since you contend that the IAM is "not an FA Union," who would you suggest?

Last time we heard the chorus of "anyone but AFA." Well, the crowd got what it asked for.

 

[metopower]

It's nice watching you guys working in tandem.
Meto-- since you contend that the IAM is "not an FA Union," who would you suggest?
Last time we heard the chorus of "anyone but AFA." Well, the crowd got what it asked for.

Who is working in tandem?
Let's see how many of them are there?
Maybe an in house .
Or are your opinions your own just like mine.
Do you mean Baba? After all I was given his or her hotel room.

 

[Kev3188]

Maybe an in house .

That was tried before, and didn't end well. There's no real interest in repeating that, but just for fun, let's say there is; why do you think it would be better/different is time around?

 

[700UW]

http://youtu.be/Ly5ZKjjxMNM

 

[WorldTraveler]

tell us about DL's inhouse unions.

and tell us why an inhouse union wouldn't work given that meto's characterization of DALPA within ALPA reflects the exactly same "culture" that so many of you dislike about DL - that DL employees see themselves as in a different light than they see the rest of the industry.

as much as you want to try to deny it, a major reason why I don't believe a national union will ever win an election at DL is because DL people do not want to give up their independence and culture to a national union - and I can't tell you how many DL employees who have worked at other airlines who echo the exact same "it was just a constant contentious environment" that DL people don't want.

I might be proven wrong but I simply do not see DL people joining national unions and I think Richard Anderson is absolutely right that the DL culture will change for any workgroups that choose to unionize - and it won't be for the better.

those who whine about the DL culture might find how great it actually was - after it is too late to ever return to it.

 

[metopower]

That was tried before, and didn't end well. There's no real interest in repeating that, but just for fun, let's say there is; why do you think it would be better/different is time around?

It would function like DALPA and the dispatchers union. By being in house perhaps it would use the same tactics and relationships that have served our groups so well. In house union failed not at DL but NW . Much different even though you don't see it.

 

[Kev3188]

We're all the same group now.

Why do you assume the same "tactics & relationships" that have worked so well for other groups on the property won't for the FAs?

PAFCA isn't in-house.

 

[700UW]

 

[metopower]

We're all the same group now.
Why do you assume the same "tactics & relationships" that have worked so well for other groups on the property won't for the FAs?
PAFCA isn't in-house.

They are as much as DALPA is .
Perhaps the moderating opinions of former DL FA's would help make it more successful .
Just my opinion. With a national union such as the iam you can see the message of a movement.

 

[topDawg]

B.s. On both. Profit sharing was changed company wide . Pay raises are in line with what PILOT raises are ...not doctors or lawyer or scientist or FA's or ACS. No openers have been presented on contract 2015 so stop with YOUR miss information. Your just an outsider .you must be envious or something.

I always find it funny when this happens. 
But just cause you are a pilot doesn't mean you should get 8% when we got 5%. 
 
You guys are really important, don't get me wrong, but that plane doesn't fly with out me fixing it, Baba working it as a FA and Kev throwing the bags on it. 
 
I would argue that any mechanic is just as important as a pilot. One screw in the wrong place and that plane if a flaming hole in the ground. Doesn't make a damn if God him self is the pilot on that bad boy...... 
 

It would function like DALPA and the dispatchers union. By being in house perhaps it would use the same tactics and relationships that have served our groups so well. In house union failed not at DL but NW . Much different even though you don't see it.

I honestly believe any union, even the IAM(which i dislike), can act that way. 
Its all about who you elect and making sure you have good by-laws. 
 
I don't see any work group at Delta voting in a union and it not being like Delta and DALPA. JMO. 
 

who don't you repeat that same exercise for pilots and find out that they are worse off than FAs and, wait, wait, they have a union.

Unions can't force higher salaries than what the market delivers.

and as much as you would like to argue otherwise, DL is PULLING up the FAs. you do recall Laura Glading's comment that she has been chasing DL FA salaries her entire career... and she still is chasing DL total compensation considering that DL FAs blasted way past AA FAs new contract when DL FAs got 16.5% in profit sharing AND DL spent more per FA on benefits than did AA.

so much for what a union can do.

wait what? whos pilots are worse off than the FAs? no pilot at Delta thats for sure. 
 

sorry but the link didn't work.

but I don't need to see the document.

Either ALPA didn't spend that much in the same time period or they saved up multiple years worth of dues in order to pay for the negotiating sessions or they would be broke.

btw, $1.2 million divided by 10K DL pilots comes out to $120 per pilot. I am sure that meto would be happy if all he had to pay for ALPA's negotiating services was $120. He may or may not tell us what he pays in annual ALPA dues but I can assure you it is WELL beyond that amount....

and that highlights just how much unions collect that go beyond just negotiating a contract.

and to think that is only an D/ALPA thing is ridiculous.

DL FAs will pay way more than $14M in services from the IAM.

and your statistic does highlight yet another statistic - if the pilots can negotiate a contract for $3 million, why do DL FAs need to pay easily $10 million more in union dues than what it took BLOATED ALPA to negotiate a contract for the pilots?

or they used dues from other carriers....
but chances are they save up dues outside of negos. 
 

Sooooo.....the question is then, "IF" the IAM is voted in and cannot get an acceptable contract to be ratified, can the FA's kick the IAM to the curb?

My guess is it would be some loooooong drawn out process , once they're imbedded like a tick!

its a b*tch under the RLA. yet another reason why the RLA needs changes...... 
 

yep... your list should be the same as mine. apparently I counted too many blocks I passed instead of aircraft models. I forgot the M11 and D10.

How could I forget the flowing toilet river down the aisle M11 LAX-FRA diversion and cxl.

wait... I didn't work that flight from a desk in ATL.... contrary to what someone(s) think.

I liked the plane but got damn did it have its problems. I think UPS and FedEx have a lot of them worked out......of course it helps that they don't have a PAX cabin or are expected to fly LAX-HKG non-stop..... 
 

You asked the wrong question. What has a national union gained by having DALPA as part of them. THEY answer to DALPA not the other way around like your iam.DALPA leaves tomarrow alpa collapses.

Yeah right. 
IMO DALPA isn't nearly as important to ALPA as the pilot think. 
 
but if DALPA calls the shots then how did your union negotiate that part about 35% of all new hires must come from ALPA carriers? 
Is your union wasting time and money for ALPA or (the more likely case) did Lee and the national union have that little baby put in there (and it probably cost you an extra % or two in pay FWIW) 

 

[metopower]

I always find it funny when this happens. 
But just cause you are a pilot doesn't mean you should get 8% when we got 5%. 
 
You guys are really important, don't get me wrong, but that plane doesn't fly with out me fixing it, Baba working it as a FA and Kev throwing the bags on it. 
 
I would argue that any mechanic is just as important as a pilot. One screw in the wrong place and that plane if a flaming hole in the ground. Doesn't make a damn if God him self is the pilot on that bad boy...... 



............ Well don't read into anything that I wrote that I didn't t say. First I NEVER equated how important my job was to any other job. I guess you must. Second I have many more friends that are working in acs an FA's then in the pilot group. Remember I'm WESTERN and some feelings never go away. What I said was I should get payed what other PILOTS get payed not doctors or CEO 's or mechanics. If you get a raise of 40% then good for you. If that is what other mechanism are getting. Then I just went to the wrong school."............




I honestly believe any union, even the IAM(which i dislike), can act that way. 
Its all about who you elect and making sure you have good by-laws. 
 
I don't see any work group at Delta voting in a union and it not being like Delta and DALPA. JMO. 
 

wait what? whos pilots are worse off than the FAs? no pilot at Delta thats for sure. 
 

or they used dues from other carriers....
but chances are they save up dues outside of negos. 
 

its a b*tch under the RLA. yet another reason why the RLA needs changes...... 
 

I liked the plane but got damn did it have its problems. I think UPS and FedEx have a lot of them worked out......of course it helps that they don't have a PAX cabin or are expected to fly LAX-HKG non-stop..... 
 

Yeah right. 
IMO DALPA isn't nearly as important to ALPA as the pilot think. 




 ...........Better check which group pays more dues money to ALPA. Then make that statement........





but if DALPA calls the shots then how did your union negotiate that part about 35% of all new hires must come from ALPA carriers? 




..........I don't know where you got that. No agreement about that other then the hold over from NW that we are stuck with. DL pilots wouldn't make an agreement for Comair and DL owned them. Now your talking AA or UA that is different . I'm in DALPA but I guess you can't tell that I feel a difference........





Is your union wasting time and money for ALPA or (the more likely case) did Lee and the national union have that little baby put in there (and it probably cost you an extra % or two in pay FWIW)

I always find it funny when this happens. 
But just cause you are a pilot doesn't mean you should get 8% when we got 5%. 

...read above.......
 
You guys are really important, don't get me wrong, but that plane doesn't fly with out me fixing it, Baba working it as a FA and Kev throwing the bags on it. 
 
I would argue that any mechanic is just as important as a pilot. One screw in the wrong place and that plane if a flaming hole in the ground. Doesn't make a damn if God him self is the pilot on that bad boy...... 
 Well don't read into anything that I wrote that I didn't t say.



......... First I NEVER equated how important my job was to any other job. I guess you must. Second I have many more friends that are working in acs an FA's then in the pilot group. Remember I'm WESTERN and some feelings never go away. ..........

I honestly believe any union, even the IAM(which i dislike), can act that way. 
Its all about who you elect and making sure you have good by-laws. 
 
I don't see any work group at Delta voting in a union and it not being like Delta and DALPA. JMO. 
 

wait what? whos pilots are worse off than the FAs? no pilot at Delta thats for sure. 
 

or they used dues from other carriers....
but chances are they save up dues outside of negos. 
 

its a b*tch under the RLA. yet another reason why the RLA needs changes...... 
 

I liked the plane but got damn did it have its problems. I think UPS and FedEx have a lot of them worked out......of course it helps that they don't have a PAX cabin or are expected to fly LAX-HKG non-stop..... 
 

Yeah right. 
IMO DALPA isn't nearly as important to ALPA as the pilot think. 





........ Better check which group pays more dues money to ALPA. Then make that statement......




but if DALPA calls the shots then how did your union negotiate that part about 35% of all new hires must come from ALPA carriers? 



........I don't know where you got that. No agreement about that other then the hold over from NW that we are stuck with. DL pilots wouldn't make an agreement for Comair and DL owned them. Now your talking AA or UA that is different . I'm in DALPA but I guess you can't tell that I feel a difference.......

Is your union wasting time and money for ALPA or (the more likely case) did Lee and the national union have that little baby put in there (and it probably cost you an extra % or two in pay FWIW)
......damn good question.....

 

[topDawg]

 

 

I always find it funny when this happens. 
But just cause you are a pilot doesn't mean you should get 8% when we got 5%. 
 
You guys are really important, don't get me wrong, but that plane doesn't fly with out me fixing it, Baba working it as a FA and Kev throwing the bags on it. 
 
I would argue that any mechanic is just as important as a pilot. One screw in the wrong place and that plane if a flaming hole in the ground. Doesn't make a damn if God him self is the pilot on that bad boy...... 



............ Well don't read into anything that I wrote that I didn't t say. First I NEVER equated how important my job was to any other job. I guess you must. Second I have many more friends that are working in acs an FA's then in the pilot group. Remember I'm WESTERN and some feelings never go away. What I said was I should get payed what other PILOTS get payed not doctors or CEO 's or mechanics. If you get a raise of 40% then good for you. If that is what other mechanism are getting. Then I just went to the wrong school."............




I honestly believe any union, even the IAM(which i dislike), can act that way. 
Its all about who you elect and making sure you have good by-laws. 
 
I don't see any work group at Delta voting in a union and it not being like Delta and DALPA. JMO. 
 

wait what? whos pilots are worse off than the FAs? no pilot at Delta thats for sure. 
 

or they used dues from other carriers....
but chances are they save up dues outside of negos. 
 

its a b*tch under the RLA. yet another reason why the RLA needs changes...... 
 

I liked the plane but got damn did it have its problems. I think UPS and FedEx have a lot of them worked out......of course it helps that they don't have a PAX cabin or are expected to fly LAX-HKG non-stop..... 
 

Yeah right. 
IMO DALPA isn't nearly as important to ALPA as the pilot think. 




 ...........Better check which group pays more dues money to ALPA. Then make that statement........





but if DALPA calls the shots then how did your union negotiate that part about 35% of all new hires must come from ALPA carriers? 




..........I don't know where you got that. No agreement about that other then the hold over from NW that we are stuck with. DL pilots wouldn't make an agreement for Comair and DL owned them. Now your talking AA or UA that is different . I'm in DALPA but I guess you can't tell that I feel a difference........





Is your union wasting time and money for ALPA or (the more likely case) did Lee and the national union have that little baby put in there (and it probably cost you an extra % or two in pay FWIW)

I always find it funny when this happens. 
But just cause you are a pilot doesn't mean you should get 8% when we got 5%. 

...read above.......
 
You guys are really important, don't get me wrong, but that plane doesn't fly with out me fixing it, Baba working it as a FA and Kev throwing the bags on it. 
 
I would argue that any mechanic is just as important as a pilot. One screw in the wrong place and that plane if a flaming hole in the ground. Doesn't make a damn if God him self is the pilot on that bad boy...... 
 Well don't read into anything that I wrote that I didn't t say.



......... First I NEVER equated how important my job was to any other job. I guess you must. Second I have many more friends that are working in acs an FA's then in the pilot group. Remember I'm WESTERN and some feelings never go away. ..........

I honestly believe any union, even the IAM(which i dislike), can act that way. 
Its all about who you elect and making sure you have good by-laws. 
 
I don't see any work group at Delta voting in a union and it not being like Delta and DALPA. JMO. 
 

wait what? whos pilots are worse off than the FAs? no pilot at Delta thats for sure. 
 

or they used dues from other carriers....
but chances are they save up dues outside of negos. 
 

its a b*tch under the RLA. yet another reason why the RLA needs changes...... 
 

I liked the plane but got damn did it have its problems. I think UPS and FedEx have a lot of them worked out......of course it helps that they don't have a PAX cabin or are expected to fly LAX-HKG non-stop..... 
 

Yeah right. 
IMO DALPA isn't nearly as important to ALPA as the pilot think. 





........ Better check which group pays more dues money to ALPA. Then make that statement......




but if DALPA calls the shots then how did your union negotiate that part about 35% of all new hires must come from ALPA carriers? 



........I don't know where you got that. No agreement about that other then the hold over from NW that we are stuck with. DL pilots wouldn't make an agreement for Comair and DL owned them. Now your talking AA or UA that is different . I'm in DALPA but I guess you can't tell that I feel a difference.......

Is your union wasting time and money for ALPA or (the more likely case) did Lee and the national union have that little baby put in there (and it probably cost you an extra % or two in pay FWIW)
......damn good question.....

 


What I am saying Meto is that if you get 8% for giving away 5% of profit sharing I should get 8% not 5% 
 
but I also think its complete and total horse **** that you guys get double the 401K match that I do. 
 
On the 35% rule, I don't have a copy of the contract anymore but I am pretty sure that as part of this latest contract (along with the CP and 9E flows) you have a rule that says 35% of all your new hires have to come from ALPA carriers 
 
 
And DALPA is important to ALPA, but if the DALPA dues were to be pulled ALPA wouldn't have to spend what they do. It should balance out. 
ALPA lives if United stays. 
Now if Delta and United left? might have a point.