IAM Fleet Service Thread

[john john]

I admire your proposal but you can't possibly expect to gain what our mechanics just gained. I hope our fleet members understand this? The fundamental reason for this is because our mechanics gave up much more than fleet service back in 2003 and the current tentative agreement captures a portion of what they gave up.

You need to do a little research about what the agents groups have given up in the pass but management could care less about that now…. I hope our mechanics group understands this?
We are all at square one thanks to Judge Mitchell and two bankruptcies. Agents have a voice now level playing field with management. We all put our pants on like ever body else. As long as a union group has solidarity that will achieve a fair equitable contract like ever union on the property has in past. The PIE is slice among union groups with equity. If you can’t understand this you need to find a non-union environment

 

[Districtforce]

so you're saying that fleet service can't expect the same gains because of what the mechanics had previous to bankruptcy? Didn't the judge put everyone back to ground zero? Sounds like you want to re-establish the inequities and big gulfs between groups again to me. Elitist are not welcomed in this thread.
The mechanics aren't getting anything back because of the pre bankruptcy days, they are getting things back because of the upcoming industry consolidation that will have to happen with oil so high. If the company can afford to give mechanics back 3% raises for the next 5 years then please share with me why fleet should accept Randy Canale's opinion that the IAM should only ask for 2% for the next two years.

Mergers will happen. But in trying to protect the craft, District Lodge 142 never lost sight of what the mechanic craft had prior to bankruptcy. It was time to collect some layaway items. Even though the company tried to establish the idea of permanency, the IAM never forgot the decades of gains in our former US AIRWAYS agreement.

Unfortunately, we never had the opportunity to establish the same gains in our fleet service agreements since the history wasn't there. Because of that, fleet service can't expect the same wage increases. And neither can a mechanic expect the same type of wage increases as a pilot. I would anticipate that the pilots would get future wage increases in excess of 3%. Skill has alot to do with this.

 

[The Janitor]

Mergers will happen. But in trying to protect the craft, District Lodge 142 never lost sight of what the mechanic craft had prior to bankruptcy. It was time to collect some layaway items. Even though the company tried to establish the idea of permanency, the IAM never forgot the decades of gains in our former US AIRWAYS agreement.

Unfortunately, we never had the opportunity to establish the same gains in our fleet service agreements since the history wasn't there. Because of that, fleet service can't expect the same wage increases. And neither can a mechanic expect the same type of wage increases as a pilot. I would anticipate that the pilots would get future wage increases in excess of 3%. Skill has alot to do with this.

I'm not buying that. What you fail to realize is everyone started at ground zero. You keep talking about previous contracts that no longer exists. Everyone started at ground zero. You also never commented on why the mechanics leap frogged over fleet in regards to IAM pension contributions. Correct me if I'm wrong but when were the mechanics ever members of the pension fund? By your reasoning, fleet should get about $3.00 per hour in their pension fund since they have been members of the fund alot longer.

Your pilot comparison is wrong. Back when I was involved, the pilots took a certain % and then demanded that fleet service take the same %. We refused but the company insisted that all groups take the same % pay cut. When it happened it was retroactive of all things.

After all that I realized that what fleet needed was a 'me too' so if pilots ever got any pay raise, then fleet would get the same %. If fleet could get the same pay reduction then they should be entitled to the same pay increase. Nelson's absolutely right, if Hemenway can afford to pay a mechanic 3% more in each of the next 5 years then he can afford to pay the ramp the same increases. That's how it worked for the decreases so your opinion is inaccurate.

 

[orioleman]

farce,
"Unfortunately, we never had the opportunity to establish the same gains in our fleet service agreements since the history wasn't there. Because of that, fleet service can't expect the same wage increases. And neither can a mechanic expect the same type of wage increases as a pilot. I would anticipate that the pilots would get future wage increases in excess of 3%. Skill has alot to do with this."

we are talking about % not equal hourly rate. theres a big difference . And from the scoreboard I'm looking at . I have NOT received A POSITIVE gain in any of our amendable

contracts since becoming a union member back in the 90's . So to say Fleet hasn't given up what mtc has in the last 10 yrs is a bunch of crap. Unless you count throwing your

dues paying utility folks under the bus. You would do the same to fleet if you could.

 

[Districtforce]

I'm not buying that. What you fail to realize is everyone started at ground zero. You keep talking about previous contracts that no longer exists. Everyone started at ground zero. You also never commented on why the mechanics leap frogged over fleet in regards to IAM pension contributions. Correct me if I'm wrong but when were the mechanics ever members of the pension fund? By your reasoning, fleet should get about $3.00 per hour in their pension fund since they have been members of the fund alot longer.

Your pilot comparison is wrong. Back when I was involved, the pilots took a certain % and then demanded that fleet service take the same %. We refused but the company insisted that all groups take the same % pay cut. When it happened it was retroactive of all things.

After all that I realized that what fleet needed was a 'me too' so if pilots ever got any pay raise, then fleet would get the same %. If fleet could get the same pay reduction then they should be entitled to the same pay increase. Nelson's absolutely right, if Hemenway can afford to pay a mechanic 3% more in each of the next 5 years then he can afford to pay the ramp the same increases. That's how it worked for the decreases so your opinion is inaccurate.

New participants in the IAM pension fund have nothing to do with the employer contribution levels of other groups. The participation of each new group is measured against their current retirement articles and then our experts analyze the benefit for the group to participate. The employer contribution level would not have been a benefit to them if they were only getting the fleet service levels.

 

[Districtforce]

I'm not buying that. What you fail to realize is everyone started at ground zero. You keep talking about previous contracts that no longer exists. Everyone started at ground zero. You also never commented on why the mechanics leap frogged over fleet in regards to IAM pension contributions. Correct me if I'm wrong but when were the mechanics ever members of the pension fund? By your reasoning, fleet should get about $3.00 per hour in their pension fund since they have been members of the fund alot longer.

Your pilot comparison is wrong. Back when I was involved, the pilots took a certain % and then demanded that fleet service take the same %. We refused but the company insisted that all groups take the same % pay cut. When it happened it was retroactive of all things.

After all that I realized that what fleet needed was a 'me too' so if pilots ever got any pay raise, then fleet would get the same %. If fleet could get the same pay reduction then they should be entitled to the same pay increase. Nelson's absolutely right, if Hemenway can afford to pay a mechanic 3% more in each of the next 5 years then he can afford to pay the ramp the same increases. That's how it worked for the decreases so your opinion is inaccurate.

Look who's going back to prior bankruptcy days? You can't compare the % decreases since there was no leverage and the alternative was chapter 7. Even so, weren't you the only ones that gained the IAM pension fund?

 

[john john]

It was time to collect some layaway items. Even though the company tried to establish the idea of permanency, the IAM never forgot the decades of gains in our former US AIRWAYS agreement.

If you think management thinks a mechanic is due to get a higher percentage than other union work groups because of what management got rid of in bankruptcies you better brace yourself. What happen in the past was a calculated move by some smart highly pay people to get to square one. We are as good as our bargaining now

 

[orioleman]

"Look who's going back to prior bankruptcy days? You can't compare the % decreases since there was no leverage and the alternative was chapter 7. Even so, weren't you the only ones that gained the IAM pension fund?" :down:

Dude that was one of our concessions not a benefit.. Lets see YOU can have this pension. and YOU can retire UNRESTRICTED with 30yrs .. But one catch. YOU can't

go out and work in ANY field that is related to the IAM.. SO lets see . A person has to go get another job because of the pension fund. lets see YOU get full credit for years of service

but your income is calculated based on when you got thrown in there . ex, fleet 05 so if you want to leave at 30 yrs you'll get about 300 bucks a month. SO one has to get a job

to pay the bills. But wait the job you've done for 30 yrs YOU CAN'T do anymore or ELSE you won't get your pension ... THAT is utter b/s .You are vested in the IAM . YOU retire

you SHOULD get your MONEY,, without restrictions period. IF you want to get a job with UA and start all over again YOU SHOULD STILL GET YOUR PENSION FOR THE SERVICE YOU

GAVE YOUR OTHER EMPLOYER FOR 30 yrs.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Look who's going back to prior bankruptcy days? You can't compare the % decreases since there was no leverage and the alternative was chapter 7. Even so, weren't you the only ones that gained the IAM pension fund?

excuse me but I was on the committee that had the IAM pension plan presented to us, and it was presented as a 48.2 million concession. The math was pretty simple.
401k= up to 10% company contributions + company contributions on overtime also.
IAM Pension = 5% for full time or 3% part-time + zero company contributions for overtime hours.

At any rate, DF, everyone is at square one and if you think one group is going to get 'extra credit' because of decades of previous membership then you're nuts. Sorry, no extra credit on this test.
If hemenway can sign a contract to one group with oil at '$113 buck' and explicitly says its affordable to give them a 31% pay raise over 5 years, Big fat Pension increases, benefit gains, then it's more than fair for other groups to demand it. That's how the wage decreases worked in bankruptcy so it should naturally follow that that's how they work now in post bankruptcy.

Now fleet has to 'clean up' it's proposal so that it fits the new 'template' that hemenway fashioned for the mechanics, and implicitly said was affordable.

FWIW: if we have any fleet negotiators out here, be aware of one of Canale's tricks to get a tentative and then after you all agree, the darn thing goes back to "IAM Legal" only to find out you been 'hoodwinked' with language that didn't rightfully represent your intentions. Same with your proposals, read them thoroughly before it gets presented to the company. The last one was a mess and all over the place. If it takes an extra few hours to clean it up then it's worth the time. Two sacreds: the proposal that goes to the company, and the final language of any TA.

At any rate, I am not convinced that the company understands the September mandate. So, don't be surprised if things continue to drag out. One big thing is that we have those 19 west stations. If there are any mergers coming, then keeping those 19 stations in tact [should stay in tact anyways] as we have now is powerful.
For example only, we have SLC and in a merger with Delta, that would have the big potential to make SLC a union hub. IMO, I wouldn't be the least surprised if US AIRWAYS makes another pitch for Delta once the company tries to secure more favorable contracts to position it for another merger.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[usfurloughed]

New participants in the IAM pension fund have nothing to do with the employer contribution levels of other groups. The participation of each new group is measured against their current retirement articles and then our experts analyze the benefit for the group to participate. The employer contribution level would not have been a benefit to them if they were only getting the fleet service levels.

I don't think you've ever admitted that you're part of this injustice. You're now out of the liars' club. Congradulations!

 

[diogenes]

There are only two logical metrics to compare the FS TA too:

1. Industry standards - FS contract should approximate FS contracts at other carriers, including WN.

2. Meet percentage increases vis a vis internal work groups - If ALPA gets an x percent increase (or IAM M& 'used to be R', AFA, CWA), then FS gets the same $$$.

OK, IAM M&'used to be R' had a nice contract since 1949. Hope you enjoyed it.

2 BK's reset the clock to zero.

FWIW, mechs wanted no part of fleet ("strength in numbers", what B$!) from the jump.

Fine - stay out of the way, and let fleet tend to their own business.

If you think FS $$ comes out out your action, you have fallen for the oldest management scam in the world - divide and conquer.

Quit being a tool.

 

[Tim Nelson]

DL141 Electon update: Alex Gerulis keeps his Local Chairman position for United Ramp in Chicago with sweeping victory over Canale's pick.

The New Direction Team is now pitching a no hitter in March by winning all runoff and local elections. We are also securing even more stations in our network, and communication is now flowing better with more Local Chairman at US AIRWAYS. Remember, much of our support at US AIRWAYS has been from the masses and only a few US AIRWAYS Local Chairman were willing to support the rank and file in this movement. That is now changing as the New Direction team wants to bring in more members to support bringing this district back to the members. Once The New Direction Team wins the June election, even those who supported Canale will be welcome because unlike Parker's boy, we believe we have to include even those who disagree with us because the more solidarity the more strength and better representation.

Positive developments indeed.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[The Bagfather]

Sidebar #25: Maybe this should be a new thread but it has
to do with the IAM so here goes. FS employee Y transfers
from LAS to SAN 7 months ago. Things don't work out for
him here so he puts in to go back. This is approved by mgt
but it is stopped by the IAM. According to them only east
employees can transfer before a year is up.

Does anybody have any suggestions? DF?

 

[orioleman]

bf,'
whats in your twu contract.. I'm guessing they are administrating your contract on transfers

 

[usfurloughed]

Sidebar #25: Maybe this should be a new thread but it has
to do with the IAM so here goes. FS employee Y transfers
from LAS to SAN 7 months ago. Things don't work out for
him here so he puts in to go back. This is approved by mgt
but it is stopped by the IAM. According to them only east
employees can transfer before a year is up.

Does anybody have any suggestions? DF?

TWU contract
Section 13d
Page 13-1

Technically the IAM is right