Iam Vs Twu Contract

[Ramp Rogue]

I think you are outta your mind!
Anything but "date of hire" will cause a war!
Mergers create bad blood anyway....giving AWA'ers time they didn't earn will be a disaster.

Just my $.02

[post="290844"][/post]​

Very well put, Crushed.
Each employee should bid everything with the time they have earned. No more, no less. It never was and never will be fair when someone with less seniority bids ahead of someone with more seniority then they have.

Hp will not be at the bottom of the senoirity list, either. The one with the least seniority will be at the bottom. At US we have employees that were hired 1999 until 2005. Would it be fair to put them ahead of HP employees that were hired before that? I don't think so. What's fair is HIRE DATE.

 

[thom]

I don't mean to start a war here, I was just fielding some questions to see what some US rampers felt about things. I know that we need to go to pit and so on to talk to them, nothing is in stone just getting opinions. You seem to know alot about our union, did you used to worked us at some point? If anyone knows how many yrs is the most senior and the most jr.? I'm sorry if I upset anyone that was not my plan, any positive feedback to combine the work force is all I'm looking for. Thanks

 

[Ramp Rogue]

As of the seniority list that came out for January 2005, the dates range from;

9/1961 to 1/2005

This isn't that current because there are a lot on the list that have either quit, been furloughed, been fired, took a voluntary leave, or retired. I hope this helps you.

 

[Bob Owens]

The only way to do seniority is to dovetail.

And it should be date of hire, plain and simple.

The junior people won't like it, but such as life.

[post="290501"][/post]​

The TWU has already set a precedence as to how the merge the two workgroups when the other union is the IAM.

Being that the USAIR guys are basically getting AWA a raise they should be dovetailed with a 15 year fence around the places where AWA has a lot of employees. This way there is no flush.

To the AWA workers forget the TWUs language because its usually unenforceable. Hell even their Constitution is not enforceable as we proved when we sued them in 2003. The TWU claims that their Constitution guarantees members the right to ratify or reject changes to the contracts but in court they argued thats not true. They argued that they only have to ratify the initial contract . Since we are under the RLA and our contracts only become amenadable they dont ever have to let us vote on a contract after the initial contract.

At AA they had Job protection language that they simply rolled back once it actually woiuld have protected workers. In other words we had layoff protection in our contract until the company actually wanted to lay off. The protected date was 2001, but then the TWU rolled it back to 1998. This allowed the company to layoff thousands of workers who thought they had protection. I know that there were bad times but isnt that what layoff protection is for?

Go for the money.

Use this as an opprtunity to Dump the TWU. Continental rejected them, so did Delta. Over 9000 mechanics at AA signed cards to have an election that could have replaced them. Most of the Ramp guys at AA would replace them if given the opportunity.They would rather stay non-union than company union. The TWU is a company friendly union. Better yet dump both of them and go Teamsters.

For those who preach strength in numbers the Teamsters have 1.4 million members. Now that they have left the AFL-CIO airline workers could do what we should have done 20 years ago when the industry deregulated-join together into one union. This would finally give airline workers real power and stop unions like the TWU from running us all in a race to the bottom.

 

[delldude]

We were maybe thinking of of combining the seniority by every second US add the 1 ST HP guy all the way down the line. What do you think about doing it that way? Were just trying to figure a way to have a fair for everyone. If you go by date of hire HP people are going to be at the bottom. Doing it the way I menioned befor shouldn't really upset to may people. Let me know what you thin . THANKS

[post="290835"][/post]​

date of hire and prepare for a layoff at HP .
not only does the name live on so do the senior most employees at U :mf_boff:

 

[700UW]

Bob,

Misinformed again.

In the TWA bankruptcy the IAM gave up the Allegheny/Mohawk Labor Protection Provisions.

One case of seniority integration does not make it precedent setting.

When the IBT at PSA merged with US the mechanics became IAM and were dovetailed. PI was all ready IAM and were dovetailed.

What the TWU did was disgraceful, a union is about everyone and should not be to punish the TWA workers who sacrificed for years to keep their company afloat.

I do see both sides of the issue, but in all fairness the only way it should be is dovetail.

And US mechanic and related and fleet service both have LPPs in their current contracts.

 

[Ramp Rogue]

Would someone please explain what dovetail means?

 

[barbeetantrums]

When someone please explain what dovetail means?

[post="292007"][/post]​

Dovetail Seniority: Combination of two or more seniority lists (usually of different companies being merged) into a master seniority list, with each employee keeping the seniority he had previously acquired even though he may thereafter be employed by a new employer.

 

[thom]

BOB, can you explain how a fence works? I think I understand it but can you explain so i know for sure. Thanks

 

[thom]

BOB, can you explain how a fence works? I think I understand it but can you explain so i know for sure. Thanks

[post="292358"][/post]​

Can anyone explain how the fence system works so I fully understand it? thanks

 

[barbeetantrums]

Can anyone explain how the fence system works so I fully understand it? thanks

[post="292396"][/post]​

Ask Pat or Jim. They should be a cornucopia of information.

Thom, I realise that your intentions are good but it is rather disappointing that a member of the merger committee doesn't know what "dovetailing" or "fences" entail. What is going on at the local? This is really scary.

 

[thom]

Ask Pat or Jim. They should be a cornucopia of information.

Thom, I realise that your intentions are good but it is rather disappointing that a member of the merger committee doesn't know what "dovetailing" or "fences" entail. What is going on at the local? This is really scary.

[post="292405"][/post]​

Thank-you for your reply, I don't think anyone on the comittee was ever involved with a merger so this is all new to us. I don't know how you know pat or jim but I was asking questions to get as much input from people who have been involved with a merger that can shed some light on things. I have read about fences and dovetailing so I do know alittle bit about it, I was just trying to get a little feed back I guess I was wrong for doing that.Thank-you

 

[tadjr]

Fencing means that employees in a certain area (CLT/PHL/PHX/LAS) would keep their seniority as long as they stayed in their current city (or you could lump the hubs together or any other combination that you want) and if they transferred out of that area into the other fenced area, they would be given a new date for work in that area (either transfer date/merger date, whatever is agreed upon). Most likely it would be something like (PHX/LAS) and (CLT/PHL) with possibly DCA/LGA thrown in. Not sure how you could do one in all the smaller cities, but it would probably be just the hubs that would be most affected since there is very little movement in the out stations anyway right now. All the options of the fence (cities, dates, etc) would have to be agreed to along with the length of time that the fences remain in place. After that time, anyone transferring gets their regular time.

 

[thom]

Fencing means that employees in a certain area (CLT/PHL/PHX/LAS) would keep their seniority as long as they stayed in their current city (or you could lump the hubs together or any other combination that you want) and if they transferred out of that area into the other fenced area, they would be given a new date for work in that area (either transfer date/merger date, whatever is agreed upon). Most likely it would be something like (PHX/LAS) and (CLT/PHL) with possibly DCA/LGA thrown in. Not sure how you could do one in all the smaller cities, but it would probably be just the hubs that would be most affected since there is very little movement in the out stations anyway right now. All the options of the fence (cities, dates, etc) would have to be agreed to along with the length of time that the fences remain in place. After that time, anyone transferring gets their regular time.

[post="292487"][/post]​

Thank-you for your reply, that is what I had read but it's always good to make sure that is what I understood. Thanks for you help

 

[barbeetantrums]

Thank-you for your reply, I don't think anyone on the comittee was ever involved with a merger so this is all new to us. I don't know how you know pat or jim but I was asking questions to get as much input from people who have been involved with a merger that can shed some light on things. I have read about fences and dovetailing so I do know alittle bit about it, I was just trying to get a little feed back I guess I was wrong for doing that.Thank-you

[post="292479"][/post]​

Thom, I know Pat and Jim. I know you. You are a great guy and a joy to work with. I love ya. You're the man. You are a bag-stacking sex machine. You don't complain, you are always in a good mood, you know what it takes to get the job done, you never fall asleep in the breakroom and miss your flights. You are an all-around good guy. My problem with all of this is that asking these questions on an internet forum exposes our soft belly to the IAM AND management. The best way to get stomped on in this life is to reveal that you and your posse don't know anything. Fact is, Thom, we're gonna get hosed by IAM and we're gonna let it happen. There won't be even a whimper. We're gettin' hosed, Thommy... we're gettin' hosed. It's not your fault so don't think I'm saying that. I'm saying that we are rolling over. Look at the good news: We'll make better pay under the IAM contract. And I just saved a load of money by switching to Geico!

This is my final word on the subject. I'm gonna let it go, keep on movin' and accept whatever happens.