M&R Vote

[unionguy1]

75% of our guys rejected this deal, you wont see them jumping through hoops to help this company anymore.

In fact they were headed for a third one when Bethune took over and restored many of the benefits that were lost and increased wages. When you compare their real wages to what we are making today their Lorenzo wages were higher than our current wages.

We've been through BK twice, once when the company said they would file so we gave them more than they probably would have gotten and the second time to once again lower the standard for the industry.

The Judge said they overreached, well we had a much better case than the pilots but we will never hear it. Thanks to people like you.

Hell Overreach, We gave the permission to do a reach around.

 

[Realityck]

[background=rgb(242, 242, 242)]
Realityck, on 20 August 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:[/background][background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]

All of those "smug high seniority" AMT's as you call them, have watched for years of TWU concessions lead us to nowhere.


Have you been taking a nap for the last 30 years?

Major Carrier Bankruptcies During Following Deregulation

• May 13, 1982 – Braniff
• Sep 24, 1983 – Continental
• Mar 9, 1989 - Eastern
• Sep 28, 1989 – Braniff
• Dec. 3, 1990 – Continental
• Jan. 8 1991 — Pan Am World Airways
• Jan. 18, 1991 — Eastern Air Lines
• June 27, 1991 — America West Airlines
• Jan. 31, 1992 — Trans World Airlines
• June 30, 1995 — Trans World Airlines
• Feb. 26, 1998 — Pan American World Airways
• Dec. 6, 2000 — National Airlines
• Jan. 10, 2001 — Trans World Airlines
• Aug. 11, 2002 — US Airways
• Dec. 9, 2002 — United Airlines
• Sept. 12, 2004 — US Airways
• Sept. 14, 2005 — Delta Air Lines
• Sept. 14, 2005 — Northwest Airlines
• Nov. 29, 2011 — American Airlines

For those who remember, Deregulation caused a major upheaval in the Airline Industry and we are still dealing with its fallout. While the TWU dodged the silver bullet until now, it’s our turn to face the effects of a Bankruptcy Court’s indifference to Airlines employees and our union contracts. It’s a no-win situation no matter how many “experts” claim to know an easy way out, and no union has succeeded in avoiding the fallout. Anyone that tells you different is either lying, or has a personal agenda.

SWA was never in this position but neither have they ever had a losing quarter (and hopefully they never will).

What exactly don’t you understand about the real world, not AMFA’s version?[/background]


You seem to forget that we gave up more outside of BK and went into this BK worse off than our peers who went BK.

Are you saying that airlines didnt fail prior to deregulation?



Now I didn't say that did I?

Here is an overview of what transpired prior to Deregulation: Pre-1978, bankruptcies were extremely rare in the unduly regulated environment. [Some exceptions existed for intra-state carriers, which were not regulated by the Civil Aeronautics Board.] The CAB typically arranged marriages between failing carriers (i.e., Northeast) and survivors (i.e., Delta), transferring routes and assets to the surviving carrier. Since 1978, there have been well over 100 bankruptcy filings, although not all of these have resulted in liquidation. The early years of deregulation saw numerous filings amongst startup carriers that lacked viable business plans or sufficient capitalization. However, recession, fierce competition, rising costs, the Gulf War, and the September 11, 2001 tragedy prompted bankruptcy filings amongst several larger carriers.

 

[2ndGENAMT]

Bob all but one group at AA has accepted their deals. The APA are weeks away from abrogation and read the decision. They won nothing but a few weeks. The creditors have stated they will go against any sweetening of deals. There is nothing more to get. Deal with it.

And it's not just AA that doesn't believe in your arguments. Don't you remember trying to rally the CO and UA AMTs? They listened and voted the opposite of your recommendations.

And you keep putting out there about the cornerstone locals. Who cares? They are members just like the ones everywhere else and their votes are not more important than a guy in SAT.

The deal passed Bob, threatening that unhappy AMTs make bad workers is a weak strategy. Weren't post Lorenzo AMTs unhappy at CO? Now you want to be like them but you fail to see you already are. They got kicked in the groin twice by BK before they got to be where you desire to be now. So we are in BK1, prepare for the next rochambeau

As you know, the company and the APA worked hard to reach a tentative agreement on a new labor contract, which was not ratified by the membership. While this was not the preferred course, we respect this democratic process and our fine pilot colleagues who serve American with great distinction. At this point, we must continue to take the next steps in the court process to secure the changes necessary to move forward with a successful restructuring. We will continue to work with the union to explore paths to a consensual deal which addresses our pilots’ priorities while working within the economic parameters of the tentative agreement.


And we were all led to believe that the company would impose the "ASK"...
Show me any abrogated CBAs in our industry where the ASK was enforced...

 

[DonnaU]

Donna, did you throw out 108 votes?

If no, then stuff it.

Comatose, this constant talking and rehashing is not going to change anything. Its time to come to terms with it and move on!!!

 

[DonnaU]

Donna, its too late. You can support the twu or ibt as much as you want! Article 42 is gone, and we have open language in our contract for workrules and overtime, we F'ckd up. We'll get'em next time. Any union that gives away job protection, is not a union ....period

Odie , I agree, we %*$@(* up , its time to move on and take positive and meaningful steps to get by and meet this challange head on. And have accountable results from our actions. I've come to terms with it.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

For most of us here at AA there wont be a next time and THAT IS A SHAME..

2003 now 2012 when do you all figure we'll get another 2021. How many of you will still be here?

Was it worth it to vote YES and is it still worth staying with the TWU=Totally worthless Union?

Lets send J Little , Don V. Bobby Gless, and the rest Packing.

Sign a card to bring this to a vote and lets be done with them and the AA colusion.

 

[737823]

Bob all but one group at AA has accepted their deals. The APA are weeks away from abrogation and read the decision. They won nothing but a few weeks. The creditors have stated they will go against any sweetening of deals. There is nothing more to get. Deal with it.

And it's not just AA that doesn't believe in your arguments. Don't you remember trying to rally the CO and UA AMTs? They listened and voted the opposite of your recommendations.

And you keep putting out there about the cornerstone locals. Who cares? They are members just like the ones everywhere else and their votes are not more important than a guy in SAT.

The deal passed Bob, threatening that unhappy AMTs make bad workers is a weak strategy. Weren't post Lorenzo AMTs unhappy at CO? Now you want to be like them but you fail to see you already are. They got kicked in the groin twice by BK before they got to be where you desire to be now. So we are in BK1, prepare for the next rochambeau

Overspeed,
Are you an international rep? Why to you keep spinning the crappy TA that everyone here is unhappy with and attacking Bob? I have my disagreements with Bob as well but I respect that he takes and position and has a presence here for his members.

Josh

 

[737823]

Nothing. Little is international president. Don V will always have a place as long as Little is in that position.

I guess my question is more how important is AA to the TWU in terms of members and dues revenues? Does anyone here think the international believes a decertification is likely? If so, they must be banking on a successful campaign with DL FAs and other organizing activities. Isn't Jimmy very cozy with AA management? Wouldn't that shake things up?

Josh

 

[Hopeful]

I guess my question is more how important is AA to the TWU in terms of members and dues revenues? Does anyone here think the international believes a decertification is likely? If so, they must be banking on a successful campaign with DL FAs and other organizing activities. Isn't Jimmy very cozy with AA management? Wouldn't that shake things up?

Josh

Anything is possible. But given the 48 vote spread to pass this contract, I would say that a vote for another union would be just as tight.

 

[737823]

Anything is possible. But given the 48 vote spread to pass this contract, I would say that a vote for another union would be just as tight.

Does anyone else find it compelling that the yes-no margin was less than the votes deemed in eligible? Have certified results been made available? Were I in your position Id be a yes voter but would want to see the results and have confidence the international did not taint the voting.

Josh

 

[Hopeful]

Does anyone else find it compelling that the yes-no margin was less than the votes deemed in eligible? Have certified results been made available? Were I in your position Id be a yes voter but would want to see the results and have confidence the international did not taint the voting.

Josh

It's over and done with...Can't change a thing except new representation.

 

[AA89]

Anything is possible. But given the 48 vote spread to pass this contract, I would say that a vote for another union would be just as tight.

Many of the Yes voters will be taking the early out package. That gives AMFA a better chance than ever at AA. That leaves only the IBT interference to dilute the TWU haters. Well, that and another election with an imaginary seniority list.

 

[Hopeful]

Many of the Yes voters will be taking the early out package. That gives AMFA a better chance than ever at AA. That leaves only the IBT interference to dilute the TWU haters. Well, that and another election with an imaginary seniority list.

Possible... but don't rule out the TWU going back to the playbook they just used in TULE instilling fear into the OH people that should there be a NO vote, the line stations were going to rule the world.

Should another union vote come to be, you can be damn sure they will be doing what they are doing now,,,,instilling fear that OH will be decimated under AMFA......OH I forgot, OH is ALREADY decimated WITHOUT the help of AMFA.

 

[BigMac]

 

[AA89]

Possible... but don't rule out the TWU going back to the playbook they just used in TULE instilling fear into the OH people that should there be a NO vote, the line stations were going to rule the world.

Should another union vote come to be, you can be damn sure they will be doing what they are doing now,,,,instilling fear that OH will be decimated under AMFA......OH I forgot, OH is ALREADY decimated WITHOUT the help of AMFA.

Agreed, it won't be an easy win for several possible reasons but if the TWU doesn't get ousted now, it won't be until OH is completely gone and our maintenance program looks like the other carriers. By then we will have 1/3 of the heads we have today and the majority will be on the line. My guess is somwehere around the 3 year mark or shortly thereafter. Yes, the TWU will not go easily.