M&R Vote

[High Speed Steel]

If they start.

In the four years of negotiations they repeatedly announced layoffs in maint that didnt materialize, they added heads.

When I came into this industry I understood that what little security you could expect would be from having a lot of seniority, building up your own savings and choosing to work in a location where the carrier would more than likely maintain operations. That we should always focus on compensation, which is real, and not on promises which dissapear if the company dissapears which has always been a possibility in this industry-even prior to deregulation. The only reason why I'm at AA is because they called first, I stayed because I got hired at a time where the airline had not hired in a long time and I moved up the seniority list quickly. But I always knew there were no guarantees, thats why even when things were better most of us kept something going on the side.

Will there be a reduction in headcount? Most likely, how much of that will be from layoffs remains to be seen. Other than the widebodies is it really cost effective to outsource if those jobs help you put in concessionary deals across an entire contract group?

As I've said before AA has supposedly been telling kids in A&P schools that they would be hiring by the time they graduate. Well if theres a big recall list that isnt likely to happen.The fact remains that the supply of A&Ps is not keeping up with the demand, the shortfall is being covered with overtime, which is why the FAA dropped changing the language on Duty Times. So in order to make up for lost wages we work more hours. The FAA, for their part dumped all the responsibility on the mechanic as far as not working exhausted, but put nothing in place to punish employers who force in short turn times between shifts, low wages and no real program for dealing with problems with working shifts, especially nights. So the FAA will tell mechanics its their responsibility to make sure they are well rested but allow companies to force mechanics to work where they arent likely to get more than 4 hours sleep between shifts.

With this agreement we are responsible for destroying whats left of this profession as a career choice. As an A&P, which I am first and foremost, since I was 18, the best thing that could happen for the profession would be for AA to liquidate before our peers get too deeply into negotiations, of course as an employee that would be disruptive, but perhaps in the long run even AA A&Ps would be better off if AA were to liquidate. EALs liquidation had a positive effect on mechanics wages two decades ago, if AA were to fail with their plan based on super low mechanics wages it would likely have the same effect.

If there is a big layoff, sure in the here and now it will cause hardship, but over the long run it may be a blessing, especially if A&P mechanics across the country are fortunate enough to see AA liquidate before our existance hurts their chances to recover some of what was lost in the post 9-11 recession.

So let the rumors fly, if you are young enough you should prepare to move on whether you get hit by a RIF or not. If you leave the industry then what happens at AA doesn't matter, but if you remain an Airline Mechanic what we have done here will haunt you wherever you go, especially if AA merges with USAIR and creates a mega carrier with super low mechanics wages.

This position reflects failed policies of a dictator. It takes courage to lead, even when faced with challenges. I think your done...

 

[767in texas]

High Speed Steel....you sure thats your name? High Speed Stool would seem more suitable for you because you must be constipated and full of S#%T with all of your TWU butt kissing you do on this forum !!!!

 

[Buck]

The workforce is older now and if airlines had to pick between a 50 and 60 year olds and 20-30 year olds...GUESS WHO THEY ARE MOST LIKELY TO CHOOSE, BOB?

They most certainly will snag an AMT with 25yrs experience over a tech school grad every time!!

They company would most likely keep one older employee for the experience you speak of and two 20-30 years olds to be trained.

 

[AC Tynker]

This position reflects failed policies of a dictator. It takes courage to lead, even when faced with challenges. I think your done...

That's what I have been trying to tell him but he doesn't listen lol

 

[AC Tynker]

What a ridiculous, self serving, arrogant statement. So BOB OWENS wants AA to liquidate so he could say "I told you so."

So let AA liquidate and put tens of thousands of people out of work. BRAVO, BOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHATTA GUY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Truly amazing that you could care less about thousands upon thousands of people losing their jobs JUST SO IT WOULD BE BETTER FOR OUR PEERS!

Guess what, BOB! All the people YOU wish ILL will on by wanting liquidation......Where are they all going to work, BOB? The workforce is older now and if airlines had to pick between a 50 and 60 year olds and 20-30 year olds...GUESS WHO THEY ARE MOST LIKELY TO CHOOSE, BOB?
I heard Fed EX at EWR needs TWO MECHANICS, BOB! Should the 350 AA mechanics apply, Bob??????????????
You've outdid yourself with this statement. You are a dreamer stuck in the decades past where unions were strong.


Do us all a favor and get a job elsewhere yourself.

That was my thought a few weeks back that I posted somewhere on here. He is hoping to help Chapter 11 turn to 7 and then be picked up by some existing carrier as a mechanic a few gates down that needs to expand to fill the gap that's left. Then he can go and tell his local presidential story with the new Union at the new job and try to run for office there and use his infinite wisdom to get them more $$.

Nobody has to put spins on anything Bob, you do such a good job on your own. I highly doubt Hopeful is a "Management Suckass" as you termed it, I have read enough of his posts on here to form a different opinion. You just got called out on your BS and realized it so you felt compelled to try and spin it again. lol too funny. Remember Bob the Early Out is available for you to sign up for like you said you should do. I promised I would remind you, now it is your turn to follow through.

 

[Hopeful]

You are a management suckass trying to spin what I wrote.

You would like to see liquidation......enough said!

If AA were to liquidate the other carriers would expand and pick up the capacity just like when Pan Am went away and when EAL went away. Back then there was a lot more excess capacity than there is now. Even then, when this was a better paying job there weren't that many 20 and 30 year olds looking for a job in the airlines, AA was hiring guys who were in their 60s. Why did AA hire 60 year old guys? Experience, demand and scarcity. AA needed to ramp up operations and they needed workers with experience.

You forgot to mention how many Pan Am folks had to interview to join Delta and how some were cherry picked to keep their jobs.
You also left out the fact that there were quite a few suicides, divorces, personal tragedies and traumas and bankruptcies following the Eastern strike.
You want everyone to believe that by AA liquidating they will be absorbed by other carriers.

Would the profession have been better off if EAL had survived with $10/hr mechanics driving down the wages at all the other carriers? It sucked for the EAL guys, what really sucked was the way they were treated when they got to AA but what they did helped stem the rapid decline in wages that would have occured had EAL survived under Lorenzo's plan. No doubt the EAL guys took a hit, but where they better off in the long run? I would argue yes, and so were we, until now.

What happened at Eastern will never happen again. The pilots and flight attendants joined the IAM because they knew they would suffer the same fate.

I'm talking about the profession here, not just you in your little world.

You chose this as your profession, would you recommend it to your kids?

The answer says it all. Your attitude helped make it this way.

Who is being "self serving" here the guy who is OK with lowering and degrading the profession or the one who admits how much damage we are doing to the profession?

You are talking about the "profession" but you conveniently omit the pain and suffering when tens of thousands of people lose their jobs..


Advocating liquidation for the sake of the profession, yes is self serving.

 

[Realityck]

You would like to see liquidation......enough said!



You forgot to mention how many Pan Am folks had to interview to join Delta and how some were cherry picked to keep their jobs.
You also left out the fact that there were quite a few suicides, divorces, personal tragedies and traumas and bankruptcies following the Eastern strike.
You want everyone to believe that by AA liquidating they will be absorbed by other carriers.



What happened at Eastern will never happen again. The pilots and flight attendants joined the IAM because they knew they would suffer the same fate.



You are talking about the "profession" but you conveniently omit the pain and suffering when tens of thousands of people lose their jobs..


Advocating liquidation for the sake of the profession, yes is self serving.

Amen Brother!

The leaders of the vote NO choir like Owens (who implies he has another income & is protected by his seniority) or his sidekick Peterson (who has the seniority and probably outside income as well) can afford to act tough as they march the troops over the cliff. They act like the cartoon character Alfred Neuman who always say's "What, me worry"!

 

[amt66]

Amen Brother!

The leaders of the vote NO choir like Owens (who implies he has another income & is protected by his seniority) or his sidekick Peterson (who has the seniority and probably outside income as well) can afford to act tough as they march the troops over the cliff. They act like the cartoon character Alfred Neuman who always say's "What, me worry"!

Señor Owens Es un comer mierda!!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

You would like to see liquidation......enough said!

Who are you to say what I would "like" to see happen?

I stated what I felt was an objective opinion on how our agreement and AAs success in implementing these terms will affect our profession as a whole. I acknowledged that its liquidation would be disruptive for us, you simply went hysterical and obviously missed that. You made it emotional and personal.

You have always been very quick to throw ex-TWA guys under the bus because they picked the wrong carrier to work for, well now you are advocating helping AA the same way they helped TWA, and hurting the entire profession just as they did, only worse.

Ok. lets do it this way, do you think that the profession of A&P mechanics is going to benefit because of what we 'negotiated' or will what we did help continue the downward trend in pay and benefits in this industry for A&Ps?

If you think we helped the profession please elaborate.

How would huge AA success affect the profession?

Do you disagree that a successful AA would force other carriers to also attack wages, Holidays, vacation, Sick Time, OT Rules, Field trips etc?

Knowing what you know now would you recommend AA as a place to work?

Are you claiming that these concessions will not cause pain and suffering? Has the last 10 years not been painful? If not then you are obviosly single with no dependants.

Come on now who is being self serving here?

 

[Bob Owens]

Amen Brother!

The leaders of the vote NO choir like Owens (who implies he has another income & is protected by his seniority) or his sidekick Peterson (who has the seniority and probably outside income as well) can afford to act tough as they march the troops over the cliff. They act like the cartoon character Alfred Neuman who always say's "What, me worry"!

We already went off the cliff, we are at the bottom.

 

[amt66]

We already went off the cliff, we are at the bottom.

Yet nobody leaves less than 500 early outs ! Señor Owens why don't you leave?

 

[DNTULSA]

I just talked to a Crew Chief friend of mine at TULE. He is 55, his wife doesn't work, and he has a daughter in college. He has 35 years seniority. If he takes the early out that AA is offering, he won't get the medical insurance, since it is going away. That is the deal breaker; he can't afford to retire, so he is going to stay on at AA until he is 65.

He is very unhappy, and wants the twu replaced. That feeling is echoed among his co-workers, who would also leave if they had medical insurance up to age 65.

I do strongly suspect that the twu is going to be voted out at AA.

 

[amt66]

I just talked to a Crew Chief friend of mine at TULE. He is 55, his wife doesn't work, and he has a daughter in college. He has 35 years seniority. If he takes the early out that AA is offering, he won't get the medical insurance, since it is going away. That is the deal breaker; he can't afford to retire, so he is going to stay on at AA until he is 65.

He is very unhappy, and wants the twu replaced. That feeling is echoed among his co-workers, who would also leave if they had medical insurance up to age 65.

I do strongly suspect that the twu is going to be voted out at AA.

I can understand that but there are guys here who are over 65 and they choose to stay . Their response is I can't play dominoes at home! They have all the right to stay but they are dragging all of us down with them. By him sitting down and playing dominoes means someone else is picking up the slack. These are the guys the union should quietly talk to them and suggest they take the early out.

 

[AC Tynker]

I just talked to a Crew Chief friend of mine at TULE. He is 55, his wife doesn't work, and he has a daughter in college. He has 35 years seniority. If he takes the early out that AA is offering, he won't get the medical insurance, since it is going away. That is the deal breaker; he can't afford to retire, so he is going to stay on at AA until he is 65.

He is very unhappy, and wants the twu replaced. That feeling is echoed among his co-workers, who would also leave if they had medical insurance up to age 65.

I do strongly suspect that the twu is going to be voted out at AA.

It isn't necessarily going away for current retirees and early outers that are of official retirement age.That is why people in TULE should go to the meeting on the 13th I believe. He needs to contact the benefits and/or retirement chair person on base because he is being fed Bad Information as is a big percentage of the people.

There are a few different directions it can go depending on the judge and the Benefits Committee can answer those questions not Local Presidents.

 

[iluvaa]

Yeah just pay for it out the ass real good advice God you TWU cultist are so clueless