Nov/Dec 2013 Pilot Discussion

[end_of_alpa]

 
Neither UA nor CO were bankrupt facing possible liquidation.

Irrevelent.

 

[end_of_alpa]

 
Would we have liquidated without the merger?

Irrevelent.
McCaskill.Bond:
 
"Nothing in the text of the statute asks whether one of the merging carriers is bankrupt and about to vanish when the transaction closes. There's a good reason for the omission: this statute grew out of American Airlines' acquisition of Trans World Airlines, which was bankrupt and would have closed its doors had it not been acquired. TWA had its main hub in St. Louis; the two Senators whose names are on the legislation represented the State of Missouri. (The original sponsors were Senators Bond and Talent; Sen. McCaskill replaced Sen. Talent as a sponsor when she succeeded him.) What seniority TWA's former employees would retain was a contentious issue that threatened to frustrate the transaction or precipitate a strike; the statute provides how these transactions must be handled in the future. One cannot remove bankrupt and soon-to-disappear carriers from the statute's coverage, as the Teamsters propose, without simultaneously circumventing the statutory text and frustrating the design behind it. "

 

[luvthe9]

Would we have liquidated without the merger?

Why don't you tell us genius. Traitor.

 

[luvthe9]

Come on, keep digging your hole, it is always so amusing.

Ask Traitor to come up with a scheme for court seniority. DOH rules.

 

[traderjake]

Why don't you tell us genius. Traitor.

 
What I will tell you is we are very fortunate we didn't have to find out and now work for American.
 
Now matter how the seniority plays out we just won the lottery.
 
Happy Thanksgivings.

 

[snapthis]

Who died and left you in charge? The furloughed pilots deserve credit for their time in service. They didn't bump "Save Dave" from anything so there is no reason not to give them something for the time they were active. Using your logic, the West pilots on furlough go to the bottom of any list you can think of. I don't know if they have returned to work or not but I am pretty sure if they haven't, it's because they don't want to.
 
Also, I am not sure why West pilots that accepted recall to the East were not given there West LOS.

Let's start by clearing something up. I'm in charge of who represents my interests. It's not the fake, lame-duck association known as USAPA. It's Leonidas by my choice and the thousands of dollars I have donated to an organizattion which represents my interests. The same organization will remain in place long after the office on Woodlawn has been closed.
 
Your side presented  those very arguments. He used logic to make a determination. USAPA was emotion riddled response. As a result, no contract, no increase in pay and no DOH. West pilots let you know we would keep you all in court until we get the justice denied.
 
How about the East furloughed pilots which came West and then were allowed to transition East to avoid being furloughed? Who made that decision? Could it have been the East managers who made those decisions? It certainly appears to have been a cozy management-USAPA deal to protect East pilots.
 
So go ahead, tell the APA and American pilots who's going to be boss. Just like you did with United and HP.
 
And while you are at it, tell them their first come, first served employee travel will be DOH.
 
Good luck.

 

[Freighterguynow]

 
How about the East furloughed pilots which came West and then were allowed to transition East to avoid being furloughed? Who made that decision.

They were East pilots with an East seniority number.

Something you do not have and never will.

 

[snapthis]

They were East pilots with an East seniority number.

Something you do not have and never will.

 
Why would I want a bankrupt East seniority number?
 
Have you looked at the arbitrated seniority decision? If you were furloughed, you don't leapfrog over a pilot who had a job at the time of the merger.
 
It's called the Nicolau decision. The abritrator East pilots chose and we agreed to accept as the decider.
 
That's the list we intend to present with the APA.

 

[Crzipilot]

Think your counting your chickens a little early there.

I would imagine you need to get a favorable court decision that isn't overturned before you present anything. At least with the mou rates you guys can start to pay down your legal bills...

 

[Claxon]

It's called the Nicolau decision. The abritrator East pilots chose and we agreed to accept as the decider.
 
That's the list we intend to present with the APA.

There were other conditions that had to be met, your list is useless.  It always was.  Your union will provide a list.  You will have to deal with this, get over it and move on.
 
 
“In the US Airways – America West case, it went to binding arbitration but there was a requirement as part of that that the two unions negotiate a joint contract with the company, which wasn’t done yet.
“And because it wasn’t done yet, the side that didn’t like it could prevent a joint contract from getting done. And because of that, the seniority integration never happened.
“In this case, there’ll be a joint contract in advance, and the seniority integration will happen.
“I’m encouraged that USAPA and APA, the two respective unions, are working well together and working jointly with the company. So I am optimistic that this ironically solves the largest hangover from the US Airways – America West transaction.”
 
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2012/05/kirby-we-expect-an-amr-us-airw.html/

 

[Reed Richards]

Very shortly, APA and USAPA will negotiate a seniority integration protocol, "according to the terms of the MOU" (where did we hear that before?).. Snappy's fantasy may well be in the cards, or not.

[SIZE=10.5pt]Yep. And will Judge Silver also give LEO a seat at the table deciding the integration protocol, and not just the actual negotiations? After all, when a new bargaining agent is created out of thin air, might as well give them all the trimmings that come with the turkey! [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]And notice our own guy here who thinks we were dishonest for not accepting the NIC, is now saying we only delayed a "resolution" of Nic problems, rather than eventual "implementation." Everyone is scrambling for a new position on the forum podium, realizing their foundations are crumbling. Why not just do as I did about my merger prediction, and confess total "wrong!" Even when I fail I show the way to redemption. And I love 1984's (closet USAPA hater) seething anger at my failed merger prediction.  RR[/SIZE]

 

[Reed Richards]

 
Why would I want a bankrupt East seniority number?
 
Have you looked at the arbitrated seniority decision? If you were furloughed, you don't leapfrog over a pilot who had a job at the time of the merger.
 
It's called the Nicolau decision. The abritrator East pilots chose and we agreed to accept as the decider.
 
That's the list we intend to present with the APA.

[SIZE=10.5pt]So Judge Silver is going to let LEO ask for the NIC? Actually walk into a negotiation for the seniority of ALL westies and take that kind of stupid gamble? What does Vasin think about that? What does AWAPPA think? What do the top 300 guys on your list, and the 400 or so nonmembers think about that?  For the thousandth time, I did not agree for NIC to ignore ALPA merger policy and put a 17 year pilot behind a new hire.  RR[/SIZE]

 

[Phoenix]

Yep. And will Judge Silver also give LEO a seat at the table deciding the integration protocol, and not just the actual negotiations? After all, when a new bargaining agent is created out of thin air, might as well give them all the trimmings that come with the turkey!
 
And notice our own guy here who thinks we were dishonest for not accepting the NIC, is now saying we only delayed a "resolution" of Nic problems, rather than eventual "implementation." Everyone is scrambling for a new position on the forum podium, realizing their foundations are crumbling. Why not just do as I did about my merger prediction, and confess total "wrong!" Even when I fail I show the way to redemption. And I love 1984's (closet USAPA hater) seething anger at my failed merger prediction.  RR

ORDER OF THE COURT

"The West shall have separate and equal representation, and all pilots shall henceforth address me as Judge Cranberry, and the Honorable Judge Wake as Judge Stuffing.

 

[snapthis]

What's the company's position?

"US Airways has argued throughout the course of this litigation,
4 including in its Motion For Summary Judgment, that, because the McCaskill-Bond
5 seniority-integration process following the US Airways-American merger will, by
6 necessity, finally integrate the East and West Pilots seniority lists, and because of the
7 long-standing dispute between the West Pilots and USAPA over whether the Nicolau
8 Award should be used to integrate those two seniority lists, McCaskill-Bonds fair and
9 equitable standard mandates that the West Pilots be given an opportunity to separately
10 advance their view on the Nicolau Award in the upcoming McCaskill-Bond process."

Doc 287 filed 11/26/13

 

[A320 Driver]

What's the company's position?

"US Airways has argued throughout the course of this litigation,
4 including in its Motion For Summary Judgment, that, because the McCaskill-Bond
5 seniority-integration process following the US Airways-American merger will, by
6 necessity, finally integrate the East and West Pilots seniority lists, and because of the
7 long-standing dispute between the West Pilots and USAPA over whether the Nicolau
8 Award should be used to integrate those two seniority lists, McCaskill-Bonds fair and
9 equitable standard mandates that the West Pilots be given an opportunity to separately
10 advance their view on the Nicolau Award in the upcoming McCaskill-Bond process."

Doc 287 filed 11/26/13

Which is just one more opinion on how things should go that has NO weight unless Judge Silver and the 9th agree. The company will do what is in its own best interest. It has NOTHING to do with what is best for the pilot group, East or West.