And your situational ethics allow you to believe you should go far ahead of another by years of seniority before you were even hired. And even expect a pilot with 17 yrs of uninterrupted service to go below a new hire. You are the biggest hypocrite on this board. Socialist.snapthis said:$6 million
Just like a liberal he is, NYC thinks he's entitled to other people's money.
Nov/Dec 2013 Pilot Discussion
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Claxon said:
Well Claxon...Be carefull! Don't dare forget that thing's a self-styled, ferocious "spartan"..even if well-past just a little bit "confused" on how reality/human nature/this world of ours, actually works. Per it's "leadership" at the inception of this: "It will be all-out warfare!"....So...Let's hire some smarmy lawyers and talk "spartan" tough!" 😉 If that doesn't totally intimidate and/or completely "destroy" our "enemies"...let's print up T-shirts! 🙂
It's all good. Per the longer/larger view?....Which would best serve the human Soul at Judgement? Lord...I just did my best. YOU shielded me in battle, and I'm so very grateful that Thy Will allowed me so many years to live after better men perished.....or; Yo! God-dude....I'se a self-styled AWA spartan!...Got tha' T-shirt!....and the "arbitrator" sez I'se wa-ay past entitled!....So tell all these other fools ta' git' outta' my way!....?
traderjake
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You are absolutely the stupidest westie on this board.prechilill said:
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:54:01 -0500
From: APA Communications Director
Subject: APA Information Hotline
This is the APA Communications Director, with the APA Information Hotline for Tuesday, July 22.
COURT RULING: Judge Joseph E. Irenas of the U.S. District Court for the District of New Jersey issued a ruling today in APA's favor in the class-action lawsuit against APA concerning the American Airlines-TWA pilot seniority integration. The suit had alleged that APA breached its duty of fair representation when we agreed to the terms of the integration. Judge Irenas dismissed all complaints against APA.
With this ruling, Judge Irenas has upheld the legality of the American Airlines-TWA pilot seniority integration. While the plaintiffs may choose to appeal the judge's ruling in an appellate court, the American Airlines-TWA pilot seniority integration methodology has withstood a significant legal challenge. If and when there are additional developments in this case to report, we will share them with you."
"
Big news this afternoon for former TWA pilots.
The group sued the Air Line Pilots Association in 2002 — claiming that ALPA had not fairly represented them during the American Airlines/TWA merger. The pilots argued that ALPA had acted in bad faith in regard to negotiations with the Allied Pilots Association (which represents pilots at American) and the eventual seniority list that was created.
Today a federal district court jury in New Jersey ruled in the pilot group’s favor, as it agreed the Air Line Pilots Association had “violated its duty of fair representation” to the TWA pilot group.
In addition, the jury agreed with the pilots that ALPA’s violation of its DFR “directly caused injury to some of the TWA pilots.”
That opens the door to — damages.
As of now, the amount and extent of damages has not been determined.
Great day for the former TWA pilots. Not such a good day for ALPA.'
Res Judicata
Veteran
Keep dreaming scab.Reed Richards said:
Res Judicata
Veteran
So did the "primary murder suspect" scale. Get help James.Claxon said:
I can certainly understand your thoughts there sir, but that's at best arguable, especially considering how many truly fine contenders needs must be considered over time. 😉 Look to merely the immediate past: "So did the "primary murder suspect" scale."...? 🙂 Seriously...any proper contest to fairly determine the Championship Title for the All-Time-Stupidest-westie, would, to be even at ALL fair, need to take into consideration the enitre past 6 years of postings, and far too much material's presented for so immediately and generously granting ANY award of THAT level = truly/actually/no-possible-contest/unarguably-stupidest-westie? A VERY serious reach on your part methinks...Just sayin'...Although I'll grant you that prechill's a decided front runner, but no matter. Consider Res's fine works, and that's not even beginning to dip into the vats of history here....I'm quite serious! While you're merely focusing on the most immediately obvious village idiots here: All must easily recall the classic: "You won't even get 200 cards!" era, just for starters. If we're to be at ALL fully fair here, in earnestly and appropriately crowning the truly stupidest westie...well...much more serious research is appropriate. Let's not forget: "You know why I hate you guys!?...I hate all of you'se!"/etc.Pi brat said:
One of my personal favorites was "NiceLandingCaptain", who pronounced himself/his holy cause "an inexorable glacier of righteousness" and "hero" in his nebulous "gray jet", who claimed to have "saved hundreds of troops on the ground"...well...just prior to being forcibly outed as a pathetic, lying sacka'-chit and entirely FAKE/psychotic.."war hero"...so again sir: We must reasonably evaluate the whole west "thing" over time, prior to announcing any Awards....West "spartan" infantile insanity alone isn't easily understood without proper documentation to study. 😉
West pilots always had things under control with their management. (sarcasm)
News Release
Release #02.007January 16, 2002
America West Pilots Call for Return to Mediated Negotiations
PHOENIX — The pilots of America West Airlines, represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, International (ALPA), today requested that the National Mediation Board quickly resume mediated negotiations between the union and America West management for a new contract.
"Management has shown their commitment to compensating the government through the terms of their loan guarantee," said Eric Edwards, vice chairman of the America West unit of ALPA. "Now it is time for management to show the same commitment to the employees who have repeatedly sacrificed and invested in this airline by resuming good faith negotiations with us."
As part of the agreement with the Air Transportation Stabilization Board, America West committed to keeping labor costs to those outlined in the company’s seven-year business plan. "Management has an obligation to negotiate with the unions representing America West employees no matter what commitments they make to the government," Edwards said. The pilots believe that this condition imposed by the federal government could interfere with their collective bargaining rights and are exploring all legal options if those rights are restricted.
"The federal government, which is mediating our negotiations as a neutral third party, could become a major shareholder in the airline," Edwards said. "This could present a conflict of interest that would compromise our legal bargaining rights."
The pilots, who have been negotiating with America West since February 2000, lag considerably behind their counterparts at other major carriers despite having much more demanding schedules and constraints within which to fly. They are seeking to address the following issues in their negotiations:
• No pension and no retiree medical benefits;
• Scheduling enhancements that increase productivity while on duty and, at the same time, restore sensible rest requirements;
• A commitment from management to reverse the punitive attitude toward employees and comply with the collective bargaining agreement, which they have failed to do as evidenced by the more than 300 grievances filed by pilots in 2001 alone;
• Job protection measures that limit management’s intention to outsource the pilots’ flying careers to smaller carriers; and
•Hourly pay rates that are as much as 74 percent below major airline industry average.
West pilots, the only thing you can blame USAPA for is no nicolau award, every other problem you blame USAPA for was brought by you to the merger. It is called in the animal world, a conditioned response. You allowed your former management at america west to bohica you. SCABS.
http://flitetime.net/franke.jpg
http://flitetime.net/franke.jpg
By Melanie Trottman Staff Reporter of The Wall Street Journal
Updated April 4, 2002 12:01 a.m. ET
PHOENIX -- On Sept. 10, after just nine days on the job, America West Airlines CEO W. Douglas Parker gathered for a celebration with colleagues at a bar across from headquarters. The No. 8 carrier, a perennial also-ran among the nation's major airlines, had just installed a new management team and signed preliminary documents for $200 million in badly needed financing.
The next day, terrorist attacks grounded America West's fleet and left the carrier bleeding $5 million a day. When it started flying again on Sept. 14, the losses continued, and the financing fell through.
Go to Aftermath of Terror
Mr. Parker, a 40-year-old fare analyst and financial whiz, would spend more than two months lobbying Washington for a bailout. He returned home as the first, and so far the only, CEO of a major carrier to take advantage of a new loan-guarantee program set up by Congress after Sept. 11.
Now, Mr. Parker's victory is viewed as a test case in the debate over whether the government should be in the business of propping up airlines who have fallen on hard times. Huge losses continue to mount across the industry as airlines suffer a big drop in high-dollar business travel. Losses at the major carriers are expected to top $2 billion in the first quarter of this year, on top of $7.3 billion in losses last year. Many believe losing an airline or two and taking some capacity out of the skies is the only way, in the long run, to improve lousy airline economics.
Yet instead of bankruptcy and consolidation, the most seriously ailing carriers, including UAL Corp.'s ual -0.46% United Airlines and US Airways Group Inc., now have a safety net. In late September, Congress established the Air Transportation Stabilization Board, with the authority to dole out as much as $10 billion in loan guarantees. Carriers have until June 28 to apply for their own bailouts. "The loan board is having discussions with all the leading suspects," said one investment banker who specializes in aviation.
For America West, getting government help wasn't easy. Mr. Parker had to wring concessions from dozens of creditors, build a case that America West was worth saving and agree to give the government the right to buy a third of his company. But since America West made it through the process, many expect that bigger carriers will get the same, if not better, treatment.
Consumer advocates and travelers may welcome continued brutal fare competition and increased stability for struggling airlines. But the loan program could also end up hurting travelers by saddling the U.S. with shaky airlines.
"I think the loan-guarantee program has delayed consolidation and delayed carrier failure, but it's not going to prevent it," says Mo Garfinkle, president of GCW Consulting, a Washington-based aviation consulting firm.
Mr. Parker strongly disagrees with those who say America West is one of the airlines that should have gone under. He cites the carrier's ability to achieve industry-beating profit margins and the tough review process for the loan guarantees that required the airline to submit a business plan proving it could repay the loan.
"We're the nation's largest, low-cost hub-and-spoke airline," Mr. Parker says. "We keep prices down not just for our customers but for [those of] every other airline."
Loan Guarantees
With the government's $380 million in loan guarantees, the airline was able to secure a $429 million loan from a group led by Citibank. It also won more than $600 million in other financing and concessions from manufacturers, vendors, leasing firms and others. But the carrier still isn't out of danger.
Mr. Parker promised his government backers that he will hold down labor costs -- even though he knows his pilots, the lowest-paid among major carriers, are desperate for a new contract and big raises. He also must find ways to reverse the reputation for poor service America West earned in the late 1990s. After a two-year effort to improve its on-time record and maintenance procedures, as well as curb the number of flight cancellations, the carrier has only recently shown signs of a consistent operational turnaround.
In February, the airline ranked first in on-time performance among major carriers for the third consecutive month, according to Department of Transportation rankings. It also had the second-lowest rate of canceled flights.
To survive, America West must win back business travelers. In February, 40% of the airline's traffic came from sales through discounted channels, such as Priceline.com. pcln +0.43% So last month, America West embarked on a risky new fare structure, discounting unrestricted tickets and eliminating the requirement that passengers stay over a Saturday night to qualify for a lower fare.
"Doug is a capable young manager who is really being put to a baptism of fire right now," says Kevin Murphy, an airline analyst with Morgan Stanley.
If America West should stumble further this summer, the loan-guarantee program's critics would have new ammunition, says Rep. Jeff Flake, a Republican from the carrier's home state of Arizona. Opponents of the bailout would be quick to say: " 'Look what happened here. We're just prolonging the agony,' " he says.
Familiar Crisis
For America West, the current crisis is a familiar one. The airline was launched in August 1983 with three planes. From its base in the West, the company built up service across the country. In 1991, with the industry reeling from the Gulf War, the carrier was forced to file for bankruptcy protection.
In 1992, the board brought in William Franke, who had turned around convenience-store operator Circle K, as CEO. After big cuts in staff and planes, America West made a profit in 1993 and emerged from bankruptcy reorganization in 1994, with the financial backing of financier David Bonderman, whose Texas Pacific Group still controls a majority of voting rights in America West.
Mr. Franke found himself routinely battling with employees and working to fix operational problems. As he turned management over to a younger generation, led by Mr. Parker, America West appeared to be on the upswing.
Still, cash remained tight as the company struggled to win back customers. Then Sept. 11 took its toll. The parent company, America West Holdings Corp., posted a 2001 loss of $147.9 million on revenue of $2.07 billion. In 2000, the company earned $7.7 million on revenue of $2.34 billion.
The week after Sept. 11, Mr. Parker flew to Washington to begin his induction into national politics and the fraternity of airline CEOs. Like a kid on his first day at a new school, Mr. Parker loaded onto a bus with a dozen airline CEOs -- most of whom he'd never met -- to jointly lobby Congress to come to the rescue of their ailing industry.
"I was certainly lowest in seniority," he recalls. And the most in need. To save America West, Mr. Parker lobbied for flexible terms in the loan-guarantee legislation. Some richer rivals argued for loan payback periods of between two and three years. But America West would need more time. "This was where, having held together as an airline industry, we began having factions," he says.
The final regulations for the loan guarantees, issued Oct. 5, called for a seven-year payback period. Cash-starved America West had to move quickly. By mid-October, the airline's application process was already well under way.
The applications were reviewed by the Air Transportation Stabilization Board, set up by Congress to help the industry get through the Sept. 11 crisis in a way that promotes its long-term health. As the first carrier to apply, America West was dealing with a new, opaque process that seemed to unfold through trial and error. The loan board erected one hurdle after another in front of America West, requiring new financing, warrants for an equity stake in the carrier and labor-cost caps.
The airline also faced an uphill battle against a Bush administration largely opposed to the congressionally created program. Bigger airlines were whispering in the background that the government shouldn't be rescuing airlines that looked doomed anyway. Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan and Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill had publicly voiced opposition to the concept of the loan guarantees before the board was created -- and they were two of the board's original three voting members. Their designees now fill their posts.
To qualify, America West had to line up enough financing and concessions to show the loan board it had cooperation from existing creditors. That meant winning favors from the more than 20 companies that leased aircraft to the airline, as well as aircraft manufacturers and other creditors. Some of them Mr. Parker hardly knew. Most balked unless they knew other lenders and leasing firms were cooperating, and not giving fewer concessions than they were.
Henri Courpron, head of European plane maker Airbus Industrie's North American unit, met with Mr. Parker and America West executives and listened to details of the airline's financial woes and turnaround plan. Mr. Parker assured him that powerhouse GE Capital Aviation Services, General Electric Co. ge -0.63% 's aircraft financing arm and America West's largest aircraft lessor, would be making concessions. He needed Airbus to agree to defer some of the 28 aircraft on order.
Mr. Parker was a hard bargainer who "asks nicely," says Mr. Courpron. "He's just going to tell you. 'Look Henri, this is what I need, this is why I need it,' " Mr. Courpron says. Airbus agreed to defer 17 orders.
In enlisting GE to its cause, Mr. Parker tapped goodwill he built up during a previous leasing negotiation. Typically, airlines arrange several leasing companies in different rooms during negotiations, and shuttle back and forth playing one against the other. But during a negotiation with GE just before Sept. 11, Mr. Parker didn't do that, and GE took note, says Michael Chen, senior vice president at GE Capital Aviation Services. After they struck a deal, Mr. Parker took the GE officials to a down-to-earth neighborhood bar, instead of a fancy restaurant to celebrate.
"It was more like he was one of us, where he could talk about his family and basketball," says Mr. Chen. "It made it like a more personal level where you build trust in the guy."
Although that was part of the $200 million financing that fell apart after Sept. 11, GE was ready to step up for the carrier again. After meetings Mr. Parker had with Henry Hubschman, president of GE Capital Aviation Services, and other top officials, GE committed to be a co-guarantor for the $429 million loan.
The battle moved to the loan board itself, which fired questions and requests at unexpected times. Mr. Parker, living at the Willard Inter-Continental Hotel near the White House, showered with his cellphone on the bathroom sink and worked out of a conference room loaned by GE. He and his staff shot back answers and promises.
In late November, a seven-hour meeting with the loan-board staff left the America West side deflated. The board didn't like the structure of the proposed loan, which was primarily from Citibank. Among other concerns, there wasn't enough payback for the government, and the underlying assumptions about how quickly the economy would bounce back were too optimistic.
The staff scrambled to amend the application, submitting a new version on Dec. 10. Rumors swirled that the airline was within days of seeking bankruptcy-court protection. Meetings with the loan board dragged on. Fed up, the airline on Dec. 18 filed its seven-year business plan with the Securities and Exchange Commission, a way to publicly declare the airline had a viable plan. The next day, America West handed in its third version, with even more concessions. This time, it got approved -- but with conditions.
The loan board demanded warrants from America West that represent 33% of the company's common stock on a fully diluted basis. The warrants have an exercise price of $3 and an exercise period of 10 years, but they don't carry voting rights. The company expects to file a registration statement with the SEC within the next 30 days that will allow the government to sell the warrants, if it chooses to do so. The warrants will be counted when calculating the company's diluted earnings per share.
'Mixed Emotions'
While Mr. Parker agreed to the terms, he says he had "mixed emotions" about them. "We thought what we submitted was adequate compensation and still do."
Already, America West has found itself flying through even more turbulence, raising serious questions about its future and the government's loan guarantee. In a March 20 SEC filing, the airline had to revise some of the projections it submitted just three months earlier. Higher-than-expected insurance, security and airport costs will hurt the bottom line. And the airline's seat capacity will grow between 0% and 2% this year, instead of its prior 3% projection.
"The fact that company officials have revised their projections so soon after the loan filing is not a cause for optimism that no further negative surprises are in store," said Morgan Stanley's Mr. Murphy.
After losses this year, America West still projects a "modest profit" next year, followed by five decent years. The carrier does have advantages, such as a low cost structure that most other major carriers would envy. None of that changes the high fuel costs, tight competition and drought of business travelers that can squeeze margins across the industry.
"There's absolutely no reason that an efficient, low-cost carrier like America West can't earn reasonable returns in good years. The question is how many good years will the industry have -- and when exactly," says UBS Warburg analyst Sam Buttrick.
Sticking to its business plan won't be easy. America West's pilots, who have been in mediation over a new contract for almost a year, are expecting big raises. But Mr. Parker promised in Washington to keep labor-cost increases in line with projections in the business plan or be forced to repay part of the loan early. A 10-year captain at America West makes about $126,000 a year, according to Air Inc., an Atlanta-based career-information service for airline pilots, compared with about $186,000 at some other major carriers.
While America West's business plan does leave room for some pay increases, the pilots union says the numbers don't even come close to bridging the huge gap. Mr. Parker says that would be impossible in any case. "We can't pay what American, United and Delta do," he says. "We don't have the same revenue-generating capabilities."
But pilots, sounding warnings of slowdowns and overtime refusals, say Mr. Parker is going to have to come up with some creative ways to meet their demands. "We can make the contract either work for the company or work against the company," says Ted Phipps, secretary-treasurer of the Air Line Pilots Association at America West.
Rival airlines, meanwhile, have their guns trained on America West. After the carrier launched its new fare structure, its rivals quickly cut prices on flights to Phoenix, apparently trying to hurt America West on its home turf.
No offense sir, you should be spending your time with the other lav cleaners. You spent your time going after a profession, I spent my time. Apples and Babby Ruth Bars (tm) comparison you have.700UW said:
Pi brat said:
PS Pi: Honestly? I didn't develop wholesale contempt for these people by my choice, since, despite academic courses; I'd some previously cherished fantasy that supposed adults, much less "Pilots" could NOT possibly be truly capable of their infantile BS as expressed. Long ago, realizing how wrong I obviously was in that naive assumption; it then became an issue of clinical interest and study. These "spartans" forced reasoned contempt...but a most interesting study in the process. I must almost thank them for the further education in "human" behavior....Seriously. By "human" in quotes...I mean supposed "adults". The west's behavior as supposedly such, well... I'd honestly never even imagined possible among supposed "pilots"...so again; It's been an interesting study.
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