Nov/Dec 2013 Pilot Discussion

[snapthis]

You are preaching to the choir.

By stating that the SLI will be "fair and equitable" all I am really saying is it will go to arbitration.

Whether I like the result or not is a completely different matter. But, the result of the arbitration will be "fair and equitable" and I will live with that result.

Unlike the whining malconts whose only arguments have been "it's not fair.....whaaaaaa"....oh, and that other great argument we see here often...."Grow up!". The later always cracks me up coming from the same people who have absolutely no regard for their own integrity, and basically took their ball home to hold their breath til they are blue in the face.

 
Flying screamer has no idea what she's talking about. The DFW based AA pilots I talk with know all about the Usapians' integrity deficiency syndrome.  
 
They know these people can't and should not be trusted.

 

[Claxon]

If your "legacy airway"  was in such great shape then why was it acquired by Parker's commuter airline?

Your airline was acquired by USAirways if you had the sense or ability to comprehend the historical facts of the transaction. And it was acquired to provide life support for your failing airline.

 

[EastUS1]

...... know all about the Usapians' integrity deficiency syndrome.  

 
Well, naturally. None out east ever printed up way-cool-dude-T-shirts proclaiming their universal integrity to the world, after all! 🙂
 
"They know these people can't and should not be trusted." Speaking of trust; I see from the discussion that you've yet to find ANY way in which to put even the slightest bit of positive spin on the emails......? How are your constituents reacting after now learning their umm..."leaders" served them a whole bowl full of pure BS? 😉

 

[Claxon]

Flying screamer has no idea what she's talking about. The DFW based AA pilots I talk with know all about the Usapians' integrity deficiency syndrome.  
 
They know these people can't and should not be trusted.

Sure they do. Ask them if they ever applied to your scummy airline too.
You know the answer. You guys helped start the train that ultimately took them down with the rest of the industry.
They have got to be stunned that america west got swept into their operation.

 

[snapthis]

You have a key to the Executive Washroom, and upon arriving on the inside you are complaining the faucets are gold instead of platinum. Be grateful at your luck that your entrance isn't as the attendant.

 
 

Tell us, how many PHX crews transit or overnight in PHL on a daily basis..... Yeah. 😉

 
Executive washroom? What the heck are you rambling about? Is it happy hour at McKoy's? TGIF, Red Solo Cup.
 
Tell us? Multiple personality disorder?
 

 

[snapthis]

Your airline was acquired by USAirways if you had the sense or ability to comprehend the historical facts of the transaction. And it was acquired to provide life support for your failing airline.

 
Yea, right bonehead.

 
Thanks for hiring Parker and moving the headquarters to Tempe.

 

[Res Judicata]

Your airline was acquired by USAirways if you had the sense or ability to comprehend the historical facts of the transaction. And it was acquired to provide life support for your failing airline.

Bankrupt entities acquire NOTHING. How fking stupid are you? Rhetorical question...

 

[end_of_alpa]

Bankrupt entities acquire NOTHING. How fking stupid are you? Rhetorical question...

“ On September 27, 2005, US Airways Group, Inc. (US Airways Group) consummated the transactions contemplated by its plan of reorganization, including the merger transaction with America West Holdings Corporation (America West Holdings). As a result of the merger, America West Holdings became a wholly owned subsidiary of US Airways Group. As described in greater detail in Notes 1 and 2, while the merger was structured such that US Airways Group was the legal acquirer, the merger has been accounted for as a reverse acquisition such that America West Holdings has been treated as the accounting acquirer. Financial information for periods prior to the merger include the accounts and activities of America West Holdings. America West Holdings is the holding company that owns all of the stock of America West Airlines, Inc. (AWA). This combined Form 10-Q is filed by both US Airways Group and AWA and includes the financial statements of each company in Item 1A and Item 1B, respectively.” Form 10-Q Quarterly Report, September 30, 2005.

“The accompanying unaudited condensed consolidated financial statements include the accounts of America West Airlines, Inc. (AWA), a wholly owned subsidiary of America West Holdings Corporation (America West Holdings). On September 27, 2005, America West Holdings merged with Barbell Acquisition Corp., a wholly owned subsidiary of US Airways Group, Inc. (US Airways Group), and as a result itself became a wholly owned subsidiary of US Airways Group.” Form 10-Q Quarterly Report, September 30, 2005.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/701345/000095015305002835/p7141401 e10vq.htm

 

[end_of_alpa]

Bankrupt entities acquire NOTHING. How fking stupid are you? Rhetorical question...

Parker: Legally, it's an acquisition by US Airways, the legal structure that we kept in place is US Airways Group remained as an entity and America West is a subsidiary of US Airways Group. So from a purely legal structure, the real deal is, we can't lie about this, IT WAS A MERGER. What happened is we had two companies neither of which could acquire the other one, some people put in a BUNCH of new money to put them together, and merge them, yeah I'm still CEO, yeah we had more board members, yes because we had a solvent company, we got more of the value of the merger than US Airways creditors did, because we had shareholders that had a share in it too, and we got a higher percentage (of the shares) but when it was all done, the new money CONTROLLED the entity. They had many more shares than America West shareholders did, and many more than US Airways creditors did. I might have these numbers a little off but to my recollection it was like 10 percent went to US Airways creditors, almost thirty percent to America West shareholders and all the rest was in new money do, it's a merger, it's just what it is, I can't go around lying about it, it's what it was.

 

[luvthe9]

Yea, right bonehead.

 
Thanks for hiring Parker and moving the headquarters to Tempe.

Snap got snapped. Don't let the facts get in the way of your and angry boy Res's way.

 

[snapthis]

Snap got snapped. Don't let the facts get in the way of your and angry boy Res's way.

Once again, tell me how US Airways moved it's headquarters to Tempe and hired Doug Parker as CEO?

I'll give you a hint, Flounder. It's called a reverse merger transaction.

http://www.businessweek.com/
"As of September 27, 2005, US Airways Group, Inc. was acquired by America West Holdings Corp. in a reverse merger transaction. US Airways Group, Inc., through its subsidiaries, operates a network air carrier. Its subsidiary, US Airways, Inc. (US Airways) engages in the transportation of passengers, property, and mail. As of December 31, 2004, its subsidiary operated 281 jet aircraft and 22 regional jet aircraft; and provided scheduled service at 89 airports in the continental United States, Canada, Mexico, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Ireland, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, and the Caribbean. The company is headquartered in Arlington, Virginia."

 

[snapthis]

Parker: Legally, it's an acquisition by US Airways, the legal structure that we kept in place is US Airways Group remained as an entity and America West is a subsidiary of US Airways Group. So from a purely legal structure, the real deal is, we can't lie about this, IT WAS A MERGER. What happened is we had two companies neither of which could acquire the other one, some people put in a BUNCH of new money to put them together, and merge them, yeah I'm still CEO, yeah we had more board members, yes because we had a solvent company, we got more of the value of the merger than US Airways creditors did, because we had shareholders that had a share in it too, and we got a higher percentage (of the shares) but when it was all done, the new money CONTROLLED the entity. They had many more shares than America West shareholders did, and many more than US Airways creditors did. I might have these numbers a little off but to my recollection it was like 10 percent went to US Airways creditors, almost thirty percent to America West shareholders and all the rest was in new money do, it's a merger, it's just what it is, I can't go around lying about it, it's what it was.

You can't go around lying about it?

America West Holdings Corporation was an Arizona-based company whose primary holding was America West Airlines. During its acquisition of US Airways, America West's parent company adopted the name of US Airways's parent company, which at the time had the name "US Air Group" and which subsequently became US Airways Group after the merger.

America West's corporate offices in Tempe, Arizona were housed in one of the first commercial high-rise buildings constructed in the downtown area, featuring an "airfoil" motif in the shape of its roof.

On May 19, 2005, America West Holdings Corporation announced it would acquire the Arlington, Virginia-based US Airways Group. The new entity is named US Airways Group and is based in America West's former corporate offices in Tempe. US Airways Group corporate offices in Arlington were closed, and most US Airways management were laid off. America West CEO Doug Parker became CEO of the merged companies, and his management team remains in control. The merger was completed on September 27, 2005, and America West now operates under the US Airways brand, which was felt to be more appropriate to the combined airline's nationwide route network. A merger of the two airlines' FAA operating certificates occurred on September 25, 2007 (the US Airways certificate survived), ending the 24-year history of the America West Airlines name.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_West_Holdings

 

[700UW]

Who raised the money and proposed the merger?
 
Hint hint, it wasnt HP nor Parker.

 

[snapthis]

Who raised the money and proposed the merger?
 
Hint hint, it wasnt HP nor Parker.

 
The finances of both companies were discussed in great detail in front of an arbitrator
as you are aware. The board made decisions based on those facts.
 
The facts being, America West was in a better financial position in 2005.
 
The ALPAArbitration Board
-------------------------------------------------------------x
In the Matter of the Seniority Integration of
The Pilots of US Airways, Inc.
and
The Pilots of America West Airlines, Inc.
-------------------------------------------------------------x
The ALPA Arbitration Board
George Nicolau, Chairman
Captain Stephen Gillen, Pilot Neutral
Captain James P. Brucia, Pilot Neutral
 
 
"There were also differences in the financial condition of the two
carriers. For a short time, America West had been in bankruptcy but
emerged in 1994 as a low cost carrier (LCC) operating out of hubs in
Phoenix and Las Vegas. US Airways had also declared bankruptcy, not once but twice. And it was still in bankruptcy at the time of the merger and was unprepared to present a reorganization plan for its emergence."
 
"Yet, it cannot be disputed that there were differences in the financial condition of both carriers and that US Airways was the weaker. This necessarily means that career expectations differed and that US Airways pilots had more to gain from the merger than their new colleagues."
 
"Before discussing the aforesaid approaches in greater detail,
some uncontroverted facts and then some recent history. US Airways is the product of a series of mergers stretching back to 1968. At the time  of the US Air/America West merger, US Airways had a grand total of 5098 pilots on its seniority list, 1691 of which (33%) were on furlough."
 
"A majority of the Board has also decided that the totality of premerger career expectations weighs in favor of active pilots as of the date of the announcement. When one considers the number and length of furloughs on the US Airways side and the dim prospects the airline faced and compares it to the lack of furloughs on the America West side, which furloughs ceased to exist long before the merger took place, merging active pilots with furloughees, despite the length of service of some of the latter, is not at all fair or equitable under any of the stated criteria."

 

[Phoenix]

The finances of both companies were discussed in great detail in front of an arbitrator
as you are aware. The board made decisions based on those facts.
 
The facts being, America West was in a better financial position in 2005.
 
The ALPAArbitration Board
-------------------------------------------------------------x
In the Matter of the Seniority Integration of
The Pilots of US Airways, Inc.
and
The Pilots of America West Airlines, Inc.
-------------------------------------------------------------xThe ALPA Arbitration Board
George Nicolau, Chairman
Captain Stephen Gillen, Pilot Neutral
Captain James P. Brucia, Pilot Neutral
 
 
"There were also differences in the financial condition of the two
carriers. For a short time, America West had been in bankruptcy but
emerged in 1994 as a low cost carrier (LCC) operating out of hubs in
Phoenix and Las Vegas. US Airways had also declared bankruptcy, not once but twice. And it was still in bankruptcy at the time of the merger and was unprepared to present a reorganization plan for its emergence."
 
"Yet, it cannot be disputed that there were differences in the financial condition of both carriers and that US Airways was the weaker. This necessarily means that career expectations differed and that US Airways pilots had more to gain from the merger than their new colleagues."
 
"Before discussing the aforesaid approaches in greater detail,
some uncontroverted facts and then some recent history. US Airways is the product of a series of mergers stretching back to 1968. At the time  of the US Air/America West merger, US Airways had a grand total of 5098 pilots on its seniority list, 1691 of which (33%) were on furlough."
 
"A majority of the Board has also decided that the totality of premerger career expectations weighs in favor of active pilots as of the date of the announcement. When one considers the number and length of furloughs on the US Airways side and the dim prospects the airline faced and compares it to the lack of furloughs on the America West side, which furloughs ceased to exist long before the merger took place, merging active pilots with furloughees, despite the length of service of some of the latter, is not at all fair or equitable under any of the stated criteria."

Nicolau and his board members had/have zero vote on your/our MOU. 🙂