Nov/Dec 2013 Pilot Discussion

[autofixer]

Too much food.....better go check my neck size!

That's pretty funny!

 

[snapthis]

Think your counting your chickens a little early there.
I would imagine you need to get a favorable court decision that isn't overturned before you present anything. At least with the mou rates you guys can start to pay down your legal bills...

BPR Meeting - the PHX Representatives will be Flooring these Resolutions:

West Representation

WHEREAS, the Court in Addington v. US Airline Pilots Association (CV-13-00471) has pending claims seeking an order declaring that the West Pilot Class must have full party status and separate representation in the procedures for integrating the seniority of the US Airways and American Airlines pilots pursuant to the Memorandum of Understanding (MOU); and

WHEREAS USAPA and its members must be prepared to proceed with the seniority integration required by the MOU soon after the anticipated final approval of the American Airlines plan of reorganization that will implement the merger of US Airways and American Airlines to form the New American; and

WHEREAS USAPA intends to fully comply with any such orders that may issue from the Court,

THEREFORE, the BPR hereby RESOLVES, if (but only if) the President of USAPA and its merger counsel find, within the next 60 days, that the Court has ruled that the West Pilot class is entitled to have representatives of its choosing participate with full party status in the MOU seniority integration procedures, as follows:

(1) To approve and direct, that USAPA immediately takes the following actions:

(a) Create an independent West Merger Committee, which shall have the sole and exclusive authority and duty to represent the West Pilots (i.e, the pilots in the Phoenix Domicile) in any negotiation or arbitration intended to reach a resolution of integrating pilot seniority between East and West pilots and/or between US Airways pilots and American Airlines pilots; and

(b Authorize the named plaintiffs/class representatives in Addington v. US Airline Pilots Association (CV-13-00471) to appoint 3 to 5 active West Pilots to the West Merger Committee and to appoint replacement members in the event that any members so appointed resign or are otherwise unable to perform their duties;

The BPR further RESOLVES, in the event that the preceding actions are taken, that the following conditions shall apply to said West Merger Committee:

(2) Any integration of pilot seniority between East and West pilots and/or between US Airways pilots and American Airlines pilots that is negotiated or arbitrated by the West Merger Committee according to the provisions of the MOU shall, without any right of ratification, be final and binding on USAPA and any successor to USAPA and on all pilots currently having a position on the East or West Pilot seniority lists, subject to the existing dispute resolution procedures in the MOU;

(3) The members of the West Merger Committee and its Chairman shall have the same status as members of other USAPA committees and their Chairmen;

(4) The members of the West Merger Committee shall elect a Chairman from among themselves and may at any time, at their sole discretion, replace the Chairman by majority vote with any other member;

(5) The West Merger Committee shall have full authority to act through its Chairman.

(6) Actions taken or not by West Merger Committee and/or its Chairman, in furtherance of the duties and responsibilities assigned to the Committee herein, shall not be subject to any review or oversight by USAPA officers, the BPR, the named plaintiffs/class representatives, or subject to ratification by any group, body or entity;

(7 The West Merger Committee acting through its Chairman shall have authority to retain counsel and expert consultants of its choice to assist and represent the Committee in the exercise of its duties and to pay the reasonable fees and other expenses of said persons or entities;

(8) The West Merger Committee acting through its Chairman shall have authority to bind the West Pilots to accept and be bound by any negotiated or arbitrated integration of their seniority with that of the East Pilots alone or combined with the American Airline Pilots;

(9) USAPA shall provide reasonable access to information that is reasonably requested by the West Merger Committee Chairman comparable to what USAPA has provided and will provide to its Merger Committee or to any other person, body or entity in existence or that may be formed, that seeks to influence the seniority integration of US Airways pilots;

(10) USAPA shall provide an amount of funding to the West Merger Committee to defray travel expenses, per diem expenses, and flight pay loss equal in amount to what it provides to its merger committee and any other committee or entity (other than the West Merger Committee) that exists or may be formed to advance the seniority interests of US Airways Pilots;

(11) USAPA shall provide an amount of funding to the West Merger Committee to defray the costs of legal representation and expert consultation equal in amount to what it provides to defray the fees and other expenses paid to merger counsel and expert consultants retained by any committee or entity other than the West Merger Committee to advance the seniority interests of US Airways Pilots;

(12) USAPA shall set up a confidential procedure for the West Merger Committee to apply for and receive the funding referenced above; and

(13) The West Merger Committee shall disband after providing a final accounting to USAPA or its successor within 60 days of the last of the following events to occur: (a) USAPA ceases to be the certified bargaining representative of the West Pilots; (b USAPA ceases to have authority to assess dues or agency fees from West Pilots; (c) USAPA has paid or properly addressed all pending requests for funds made by the who are presently in the service of US Airways.


Have a safe and fulfilling Thanksgiving holiday!

John, Roger & Dave

 

[Crzipilot]

Again,  Seems a little premature.   Do you guys have that problem out west?   Seems to be.   
 
Get a ruling that can not be overturned by another court.   Then count your chickens........

 

[flyingskier]

BPR Meeting - the PHX Representatives will be Flooring these Resolutions:

West Representation

WHEREAS, the Court in Addington v. US Airline Pilots Association (CV-13-00471) has pending claims seeking an order declaring that the West Pilot Class must have full party status and separate representation in the procedures for integrating the seniority of the US Airways and American Airlines pilots pursuant to the Memorandum of Understanding (MOU); and

WHEREAS USAPA and its members must be prepared to proceed with the seniority integration required by the MOU soon after the anticipated final approval of the American Airlines plan of reorganization that will implement the merger of US Airways and American Airlines to form the New American; and

WHEREAS USAPA intends to fully comply with any such orders that may issue from the Court,

THEREFORE, the BPR hereby RESOLVES, if (but only if) the President of USAPA and its merger counsel find, within the next 60 days, that the Court has ruled that the West Pilot class is entitled to have representatives of its choosing participate with full party status in the MOU seniority integration procedures, as follows:

(1) To approve and direct, that USAPA immediately takes the following actions:

(a) Create an independent West Merger Committee, which shall have the sole and exclusive authority and duty to represent the West Pilots (i.e, the pilots in the Phoenix Domicile) in any negotiation or arbitration intended to reach a resolution of integrating pilot seniority between East and West pilots and/or between US Airways pilots and American Airlines pilots; and

(b Authorize the named plaintiffs/class representatives in Addington v. US Airline Pilots Association (CV-13-00471) to appoint 3 to 5 active West Pilots to the West Merger Committee and to appoint replacement members in the event that any members so appointed resign or are otherwise unable to perform their duties;

The BPR further RESOLVES, in the event that the preceding actions are taken, that the following conditions shall apply to said West Merger Committee:

(2) Any integration of pilot seniority between East and West pilots and/or between US Airways pilots and American Airlines pilots that is negotiated or arbitrated by the West Merger Committee according to the provisions of the MOU shall, without any right of ratification, be final and binding on USAPA and any successor to USAPA and on all pilots currently having a position on the East or West Pilot seniority lists, subject to the existing dispute resolution procedures in the MOU;

(3) The members of the West Merger Committee and its Chairman shall have the same status as members of other USAPA committees and their Chairmen;

(4) The members of the West Merger Committee shall elect a Chairman from among themselves and may at any time, at their sole discretion, replace the Chairman by majority vote with any other member;

(5) The West Merger Committee shall have full authority to act through its Chairman.

(6) Actions taken or not by West Merger Committee and/or its Chairman, in furtherance of the duties and responsibilities assigned to the Committee herein, shall not be subject to any review or oversight by USAPA officers, the BPR, the named plaintiffs/class representatives, or subject to ratification by any group, body or entity;

(7 The West Merger Committee acting through its Chairman shall have authority to retain counsel and expert consultants of its choice to assist and represent the Committee in the exercise of its duties and to pay the reasonable fees and other expenses of said persons or entities;

(8) The West Merger Committee acting through its Chairman shall have authority to bind the West Pilots to accept and be bound by any negotiated or arbitrated integration of their seniority with that of the East Pilots alone or combined with the American Airline Pilots;

(9) USAPA shall provide reasonable access to information that is reasonably requested by the West Merger Committee Chairman comparable to what USAPA has provided and will provide to its Merger Committee or to any other person, body or entity in existence or that may be formed, that seeks to influence the seniority integration of US Airways pilots;

(10) USAPA shall provide an amount of funding to the West Merger Committee to defray travel expenses, per diem expenses, and flight pay loss equal in amount to what it provides to its merger committee and any other committee or entity (other than the West Merger Committee) that exists or may be formed to advance the seniority interests of US Airways Pilots;

(11) USAPA shall provide an amount of funding to the West Merger Committee to defray the costs of legal representation and expert consultation equal in amount to what it provides to defray the fees and other expenses paid to merger counsel and expert consultants retained by any committee or entity other than the West Merger Committee to advance the seniority interests of US Airways Pilots;

(12) USAPA shall set up a confidential procedure for the West Merger Committee to apply for and receive the funding referenced above; and

(13) The West Merger Committee shall disband after providing a final accounting to USAPA or its successor within 60 days of the last of the following events to occur: (a) USAPA ceases to be the certified bargaining representative of the West Pilots; (b USAPA ceases to have authority to assess dues or agency fees from West Pilots; (c) USAPA has paid or properly addressed all pending requests for funds made by the who are presently in the service of US Airways.


Have a safe and fulfilling Thanksgiving holiday!

John, Roger & Dave

Resolution Failed 8-3,

Skier

 

[snapthis]

Resolution Failed 8-3,Skier

8-3

Duh.

Judge Silver knows reoccurring score. She has a vote.

If it's 1-0 in favor of the West pilots....you have a problem.

 

[Graceson]

I heard the furloughed east F/Os are asking for class status including the same language above, except with membership ratification. 😉

 

[snapthis]

Again,  Seems a little premature.   Do you guys have that problem out west?   Seems to be.   
 
Get a ruling that can not be overturned by another court.   Then count your chickens........

You have a bigger problem. USAPA is a lame duck.

The APA will not pay for an appeal.

If the ruling goes against the West pilots, Leonidas is funded and prepared.

 

[EastUS1]

You have a bigger problem. USAPA is a lame duck.

The APA will not pay for an appeal.

If the ruling goes against the West pilots, Leonidas is funded and prepared.

 
Sigh! Yes, yes we know...and "You won't even get 200 cards!",etc ad nauseum. Keep dreaming as it suits "you'se". 😉

 

[Phoenix]

8-3
Duh.
Judge Silver knows reoccurring score. She has a vote.
If it's 1-0 in favor of the West pilots....you have a problem.

"If"... Everything you dream about begins with "if." Too bad none of your dreams begin with "If the MOU becomes effective...".

Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[nycbusdriver]

 
 
Overrun by Christians?
 
Corinthians 15:33

Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals."
 
 

 

 
That explains AOL, at least.

 

[nycbusdriver]

8-3

Duh.

Judge Silver knows reoccurring score. She has a vote.

If it's 1-0 in favor of the West pilots....you have a problem.

 
Not a problem. Just a delay.

 

[nycbusdriver]

You have a bigger problem. USAPA is a lame duck.

The APA will not pay for an appeal.

If the ruling goes against the West pilots, Leonidas is funded and prepared.

 
Gee. Do you think that the east pilots wouldn't form USAPA, LLC, and collect money to carry on the fight?  With the new pay rates, it will be pocket change.
 
Maybe they will give me a Coolest-Dude T-Shirt, just like you guys got from AOL.

 

[Reed Richards]

 
Gee. Do you think that the east pilots wouldn't form USAPA, LLC, and collect money to carry on the fight?  With the new pay rates, it will be pocket change.
 
Maybe they will give me a Coolest-Dude T-Shirt, just like you guys got from AOL.

The only way APA will "get" USAPA's funds is for an actual merger of the unions. That is being pursued now. Otherwise the independent union known as USAPA will continue to exist according to its CBL, and will be eventually run by a few remaining Officers. You can bet the 6M or so in the bank will be used for future litigation if required, assisted by donations. If a merger of the unions occurs, you can be sure payment of all back dues will be included and enforced, as well an agreement that litigation will be pursued as to the the antics of the West Class going forward. I believe APA is flush with moneys, maybe our small bankroll does not concern them. But either way, USAPA will have more moneys in the bank for future litigation than LEO has spent on legal total in 7 years. (and note I say "spent" not paid.") Thanks to the West Class for a full third of those funds!
Gobble Gobble! RR

 

[Black Swan]

BS^^^^^^^^^^^^
AA will take care of what should have happened in 2005
US Airways may have to liquidate without pay cut
ALEXANDRIA, Va. (AP) US Airways Group warned in a bankruptcy court filing that it may have to liquidate by February if a judge does not impose a temporary 23% pay cut on its union workers.
The airline asked a judge on Friday to impose the pay cuts by Oct. 14 at the latest. On Monday, U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Stephen Mitchell scheduled an Oct. 7 hearing on the issue.
Without the reductions, the airline's cash reserves will dip so low by February that its lenders will likely withdraw the financing that has allowed the company to operate while in bankruptcy.
Airways) cannot accumulate cash during the next five months ... there is a high probability that they will suffer irreparable harm to their asset base and ongoing business, resulting in material downsizing, massive layoffs and potential liquidation by mid-February 2005," the airline's lawyers wrote in their motion seeking the emergency cutshttp://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/biztravel/2004-09-27-us-air_x.htm

Imagine, they were going to liquidate without a pay cut. And you believe it.

 

[prechilill]

 

The only way APA will "get" USAPA's funds is for an actual merger of the unions. That is being pursued now. Otherwise the independent union known as USAPA will continue to exist according to its CBL, and will be eventually run by a few remaining Officers. You can bet the 6M or so in the bank will be used for future litigation if required, assisted by donations. If a merger of the unions occurs, you can be sure payment of all back dues will be included and enforced, as well an agreement that litigation will be pursued as to the the antics of the West Class going forward. I believe APA is flush with moneys, maybe our small bankroll does not concern them. But either way, USAPA will have more moneys in the bank for future litigation than LEO has spent on legal total in 7 years. (and note I say "spent" not paid.") Thanks to the West Class for a full third of those funds!
Gobble Gobble! RR

 

 
The east hysteria is definitely reaching uncharted heights.  Truly funny to watch, keep posting M, you're wrong with just about everything you have predicted, beginning with USAPA and DOH.  How's that looking for ya?  LOL
 
A fool truly is born every minute, you carry on the tradition well,
 
Here's a point you neglected to even address- the Addington case is owned by the union.  APA will assume the case if you were to appeal it- USAPA and the community college graduates on the east will no longer own it.  That's APA's deal and they have already declared no interest in the east's jihad against the west.  Sorry M, you're done.   USAPA is done.
 
Oh, and once the APA is the legal CBA, all funds remaining go to the APA or must be returned to the members.  Care to debate this?  Didn't think so...