OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[luvthe9]

You ignored my question. Show your work.

How many east F/O without the merger would not have upgraded?

How many east F/O's using the Nicolau will not upgrade?

You made the statement MOST east F/O would not upgrade under the Nic.

Prove it.

Show your work.Just sit back and watch it happen my boy!

 

[cleardirect]

No additional comment needed here.

You learned well from the usapa comm department. Half truth and clips statements.

View Postcleardirect, on 02 November 2012 - 07:09 AM, said:
So there are no furloughed west pilots.

You east guys make these crazy statements with nothing to back up the logic.

What I really said. I was using the east logic to make my point. Read a little better.

Dave O'dell has accepted a job on the east. Do you consider that a recall (I do not)? If so then every west pilot has had an opportunity to come back and therefore not furloughed but really on a leave. So there are no furloughed west pilots. All the west has to do is use the MDA argument that they were recalled to the "east division" and not furloughed.

 

[cleardirect]

Exactly. This entire issue has moved on so far past the Nicolau, it is a non issue. You now have a furloughed pilot from the western division David O Dell with better career prospects than the entire western pilot group. He will be an eastern captain within 5 years, while the rest of the jihadists of Leonidas will still be paying off their installments to Martyr Harper.All for a lost cause.
They have years of working holidays ahead of them, and no movement.

Oh yes the mythical 5 years upgrade. Calling BS. In the next 5 years the east has 800 retirements. Between the bottom captain and Dave Odell there are over 1200 pilots. Between the east junior captain there are 900 F/O's senior to him. Not all of those retirements are active and not all of those retirements are captains. Stand alone a new hire is looking at at least 10 years without some event happening like a merger. So anyone that says 5 years upgrade is full of crap.

 

[Claxon]

Oh yes the mythical 5 years upgrade. Calling BS. In the next 5 years the east has 800 retirements. Between the bottom captain and Dave Odell there are over 1200 pilots. Between the east junior captain there are 900 F/O's senior to him. Not all of those retirements are active and not all of those retirements are captains. Stand alone a new hire is looking at at least 10 years without some event happening like a merger. So anyone that says 5 years upgrade is full of crap.

Your post is a waste of time. These arguments have already been decided by a court of law.

"IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Clerk of Court shall enter judgment dismissing
Counts I and III of the complaint and in favor of US Airline Pilots Association on Count II
of the complaint stating US Airline Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach
its duty of fair representation provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose."
DATED this 11th day of October, 2012.

Time to get a contract and you can file a DFR suit and wait ten years for the results. Your west law firm is bordering on frivolous filings.

 

[cleardirect]

These are not a "snippets", it is the bottom line. Judge Silver could not have made it more clear and direct in her order.

"This conclusion places US Airways in a difficult position. At the present time, it is
not possible to predict what will result from the collective bargaining negotiations. Thus, the
Court cannot grant US Airways prospective immunity from any legal action by the West
Pilots. But based on the representation at oral argument that the seniority list is unlike other
matters addressed in collective bargaining, it is unlikely the West Pilots could successfully
allege claims against US Airways merely for not insisting that USAPA continue to advocate
for the Nicolau Award. See Davenport v. Int’l Broth. of Teamsters, AFL-CIO, 166 F.3d 356,
361-62 (D.C. Cir. 1999) (addressing, without deciding, “the proper standard for determining
whether an employer can be implicated in a union’s breach of duty&rdquo😉."

"IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Clerk of Court shall enter judgment dismissing
Counts I and III of the complaint and in favor of US Airline Pilots Association on Count II
of the complaint stating US Airline Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach
its duty of fair representation provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose."
DATED this 11th day of October, 2012.

Once again ignored the most important part of her order.

usapa does not have a LUP not to use the Nicolau.

 

[A320 Driver]

usapa does not have a LUP not to use the Nicolau.

You forgot the "IMO". It goes on one end or the other.

K?

Driver...

 

[Claxon]

Once again ignored the most important part of her order.

usapa does not have a LUP not to use the Nicolau.

That will have to be decided by your next option, a DFR accusation. The 9th already made that clear.

 

[cleardirect]

That will have to be decided by your next option, a DFR accusation. The 9th already made that clear.

No court has said that usapa has a LUP for changing the Nicolau. Not the Ninth, not Wake, not Silver

 

[Metroyet]

That will have to be decided by your next option, a DFR accusation. The 9th already made that clear.

Being USAPA was handed their own asses by a jury once before...because they couldn't articulate a LUO that wasn't discriminatory, arbitrary or in good faith, what makes you believe you have a shot in hell at winning ANOTHER DFR? Besides the resident psychosis that eats away at your brain that is.

Gee, I wonder if that's why USTUPID and Hummer are bending over backwards to somehow, someway, involve "the west", ( who ever that is) in drafting a "compromise" I guess USAPA just assumes everybody is as chronically stupid as they are themselves.

Ain't ever going to happen. The West will simply let Hummer and crew twist in the wind until the appropriate time.

 

[Keroseneuser]

Oh yes the mythical 5 years upgrade. Calling BS. In the next 5 years the east has 800 retirements. Between the bottom captain and Dave Odell there are over 1200 pilots. Between the east junior captain there are 900 F/O's senior to him. Not all of those retirements are active and not all of those retirements are captains. Stand alone a new hire is looking at at least 10 years without some event happening like a merger. So anyone that says 5 years upgrade is full of crap.

I believe it was Isom that said 5 to 7 years in response to Doug asking him. I do not know how full of crap he is but since you are in PHX you can probably drop in and ask him.

There are currently 1186 pilots on the line between the bottom 320 capt and the junior guy. Not counting anybody new in the training snake or that hit the line in the last 2 months. Mgmt. also went into some detail concerning the new rest rules and how that will increase staffing needs and require more upgrades. Did you not attend the town hall?

Also the new 330's hitting the line will require pilots. i do not know how many seats they require per plane for staffing but it also increases movement.

Right now there are only 342 pilots between the bottom airbus capt. and the 1989 hires...who were all furloughed and got tacked on the bottom of NIC. You refuse to factor that into your NIC numbers you like to toss out. I know that is inconvienient for you when trying to convince everybody it is still 2005. The simple fact is we are way beyond that short period of history. So what should we tell all those folks that are more than 342 numbers below the current junior captain to get them to vote in a NIC? "well we have 800+ retirements in the next 5 years plus new rest rules and airplanes that increase movement past the 800......so how about you just vote to let those nice chaps from the west with the 2005 hire dates jump ahead of you eh?"

I am pretty sure this will drag on until it is a moot point. In another 7 years or so anybody on the east that would get jumped by a NIC will already be upgraded so it should be fairly easy to figure something out then.

 

[Claxon]

No court has said that usapa has a LUP for changing the Nicolau. Not the Ninth, not Wake, not Silver

Where did I state that. The court said USAPA must have a legitimate reason and that this can only be decided in a Duty of Fair Representation Suit after a CBA has been signed.

This is your next move. The Franke management is playing you like a violin to attempt to avoid bargaining in good faith. The courts patience is wearing thin.

You will never get damages, you will never be anything but a former America West Pilot.

 

[Claxon]

http://flitetime.net/awabonus.jpg

 

[Claxon]

 

[EastUS1]

You learned well from the usapa comm department. Half truth and clips statements.

What I really said. I was using the east logic to make my point. Read a little better.

Sigh! Did you or did you not make the following statements? :View Postcleardirect, on 02 November 2012 - 07:09 AM, said:
So there are no furloughed west pilots.

You east guys make these crazy statements with nothing to back up the logic."

It's no one's fault but your own if the obvious absurdity of your assertion that "there are no furloughed west pilots" seems clearly and directly at odds with your subsequent notion that ANY others/"You east guys"/etc..."make these crazy statements with nothing to back up the logic"

You currently have people on furlough out west, True or False? The honest and correct answer is True. Spin away, and "make these crazy statements with nothing to back up the logic" at your pleasure.

PS: If, as I suspect; you're one of the unfortunately furloughed; I'd seriously advise you and any and all others ever wishing to return, to try and do so prior to any merger.

 

[EastUS1]

How many east F/O without the merger would not have upgraded?

How many east F/O's using the Nicolau will not upgrade?

1) Who cares? This isn't Fantasyland.
2) "using the Nicolau"? See response 1) above.