OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

See what I mean!

No you dipshidiot. No one sees what you mean.

 

[nevergiveup]

No you dipshidiot. No one sees what you mean.

Only the ones that are not willing to see!

 

[Move2CLT]

Only the ones that are not willing to see!

No, only the ones with common sense.

 

[nevergiveup]

No, only the ones with common sense.

The orange will fall faster than the grape!

 

[Move2CLT]

The orange will fall faster than the grape!

And the eastie will make the least.

 

[Phoenix]

Last night Phoenix said: "Since the Caped Marauder is sending me emails leading the charge for the recall.... well maybe I'll have some pity on him and sign the petition so he can finally be correct about something."

Please don't sign the petition Phoenix. If you are troubled by the WAY you are getting information (instead of what is being said,) and are joking about "pity" maybe you should just stay out of the process. By the way, too many pilots (myself included for 20 years) stayed at arm's length in disgust with union politics. In fact they often failed to even vote. And as a rule, they have suffered career wise for thumbing their noses at those that at least try to have an influence. There is something wrong in CLT. Maybe the very act of a recall will change behavior (that is the ultimate goal) but doing nothing will get you the exact product you are so used to.

Just post away here instead, the rest of us in CLT will attempt to take care of business.

Greeter

"Information" from the Caped Marauder is not information. Thank goodness I never took heed to his "information" when buying stocks.

"Take care of business"??? How? By attacking and tearing down fellow pilots yet again? All because management refuses to do anything except stand by (for YEARS and watch pilots get antsy). Management knows that pilots always have to be fidgeting and doing something, anything. Fix it, fix it, fix it, do something, anything, do it now, now, now. Let my daddy vote for concessions now!

Management sits back, pokes the pilots some more in their cage, and watches in glee as the pilots turn and tear at each other as if the problem resides among their ranks.

Like two cats tied together at the tails by a punk with a water hose.

Case in point... Now management is supposedly offering 10% furloughs, and pilots are starting to attack each other for MANAGEMENTS proposals. Hello.... I would never agree to anything with more furloughs, especially while we are making profits for years and when we have already cut the airline in half to let Express fly all our routes.

We have "gotten down to business" with management for decades, and in case no one has noticed... What is it now..70% of our passenger are flown by express? On a CAT III day in CLT, when the RJs are unable to fly, the ramp is a freaking ghost town. CLT looks like PIT!!

For all the folks that want to present a happy face and help out management, it would be a lot easier to just give it all away now rather than pretend we are going to ever really going to hold any line in the sand.

Let's let management have a single pay scale for all planes painted with DUI colors at any carrier regardless of capacity or type, unlimited code share, and work to FAA limits. If we would just do it now we wouldn't have to listen to anymore scary management proposals... i mean we blame each other for those scary management proposals anyway so if we would stop the scary proposals we could all be friends again... two happy kittens without our tails tied together...

and the punk with the water hose... well I guess he might grow up... nah, he'll never grow up.

 

[Metroyet]

"Information" from the Caped Marauder is not information. Thank goodness I never took heed to his "information" when buying stocks.

"Take care of business"??? How? By attacking and tearing down fellow pilots yet again? All because management refuses to do anything except stand by (for YEARS and watch pilots get antsy). Management knows that pilots always have to be fidgeting and doing something, anything. Fix it, fix it, fix it, do something, anything, do it now, now, now. Let my daddy vote for concessions now!

Management sits back, pokes the pilots some more in their cage, and watches in glee as the pilots turn and tear at each other as if the problem resides among their ranks.

Like two cats tied together at the tails by a punk with a water hose.

Case in point... Now management is supposedly offering 10% furloughs, and pilots are starting to attack each other for MANAGEMENTS proposals. Hello.... I would never agree to anything with more furloughs, especially while we are making profits for years and when we have already cut the airline in half to let Express fly all our routes.

We have "gotten down to business" with management for decades, and in case no one has noticed... What is it now..70% of our passenger are flown by express? On a CAT III day in CLT, when the RJs are unable to fly, the ramp is a freaking ghost town. CLT looks like PIT!!

For all the folks that want to present a happy face and help out management, it would be a lot easier to just give it all away now rather than pretend we are going to ever really going to hold any line in the sand.

Let's let management have a single pay scale for all planes painted with DUI colors at any carrier regardless of capacity or type, unlimited code share, and work to FAA limits. If we would just do it now we wouldn't have to listen to anymore scary management proposals... i mean we blame each other for those scary management proposals anyway so if we would stop the scary proposals we could all be friends again... two happy kittens without our tails tied together...

and the punk with the water hose... well I guess he might grow up... nah, he'll never grow up.

All true. The union ONLY has the unity of it's members to push back with. The laws are so slanted towards management that they're entirely useless to the workers interest....quite the opposite actually. However, you must know in your heart that this USAPA experiement opened the door wider than management ever could have dreamed for them to exploit the pilots. This is going to continue for years more through the legal system...barring a merger and becoming APA. Which for all of your sakes, I think is for the best. USAPA is utterly incapable of functioning at any thing close to an effective level as a REAL union. The anger from the West for being forced into this hugely expensive situation is never going to be asuaged while USAPA is alive.

Remember what I said about unity? It's all you have...and you have LESS than none.

 

[cleardirect]

"Information" from the Caped Marauder is not information. Thank goodness I never took heed to his "information" when buying stocks.

"Take care of business"??? How? By attacking and tearing down fellow pilots yet again? All because management refuses to do anything except stand by (for YEARS and watch pilots get antsy). Management knows that pilots always have to be fidgeting and doing something, anything. Fix it, fix it, fix it, do something, anything, do it now, now, now. Let my daddy vote for concessions now!

Management sits back, pokes the pilots some more in their cage, and watches in glee as the pilots turn and tear at each other as if the problem resides among their ranks.

Like two cats tied together at the tails by a punk with a water hose.

Case in point... Now management is supposedly offering 10% furloughs, and pilots are starting to attack each other for MANAGEMENTS proposals. Hello.... I would never agree to anything with more furloughs, especially while we are making profits for years and when we have already cut the airline in half to let Express fly all our routes.

We have "gotten down to business" with management for decades, and in case no one has noticed... What is it now..70% of our passenger are flown by express? On a CAT III day in CLT, when the RJs are unable to fly, the ramp is a freaking ghost town. CLT looks like PIT!!

For all the folks that want to present a happy face and help out management, it would be a lot easier to just give it all away now rather than pretend we are going to ever really going to hold any line in the sand.

Let's let management have a single pay scale for all planes painted with DUI colors at any carrier regardless of capacity or type, unlimited code share, and work to FAA limits. If we would just do it now we wouldn't have to listen to anymore scary management proposals... i mean we blame each other for those scary management proposals anyway so if we would stop the scary proposals we could all be friends again... two happy kittens without our tails tied together...

and the punk with the water hose... well I guess he might grow up... nah, he'll never grow up.

Why is it that management can smile while the pilots fight?

Because the east pilots refuse to live up to your agreements. If you had accepted binding arbitration 5 years ago we would not be sitting here watching management take advantage of us.

Parker will only give us a contract when the pilots have enough leverage. As is usapa will never get any leverage. If the east pilots were to finally accept what you agreed to Parker would have not excuse, the entire pilots group would unify and there is our leverage.

Otherwise we sit and Parker wins everyday.

 

[Phoenix]

All true. The union ONLY has the unity of it's members to push back with. The laws are so slanted towards management that they're entirely useless to the workers interest....quite the opposite actually. However, you must know in your heart that this USAPA experiement opened the door wider than management ever could have dreamed for them to exploit the pilots. This is going to continue for years more through the legal system...barring a merger and becoming APA. Which for all of your sakes, I think is for the best. USAPA is utterly incapable of functioning at any thing close to an effective level as a REAL union. The anger from the West for being forced into this hugely expensive situation is never going to be asuaged while USAPA is alive.

Remember what I said about unity? It's all you have...and you have LESS than none.

We can all talk about the past, cling to historic relics, and keep on keeping on. It is what it is and will be what it will be.

 

[Phoenix]

Why is it that management can smile while the pilots fight?

Because the east pilots refuse to live up to your agreements. If you had accepted binding arbitration 5 years ago we would not be sitting here watching management take advantage of us.

Parker will only give us a contract when the pilots have enough leverage. As is usapa will never get any leverage. If the east pilots were to finally accept what you agreed to Parker would have not excuse, the entire pilots group would unify and there is our leverage.

Otherwise we sit and Parker wins everyday.

Whatever. 🙄

 

[traderjake]

We can all talk about the past, cling to historic relics....

Like DOH and LOS.....

 

[Move2CLT]

We can all talk about the past, cling to historic relics, and keep on keeping on. It is what it is and will be what it will be.

was replied to with:

Like DOH and LOS.....

Ooohh, that's a burn.

 

[Phoenix]

Like DOH and LOS.....

No, like the Nic and failed court hopes. Folks in the minority can continue to scream that there is no unity because they fail to join the majority or they can abandon a hopeless failed strategy that the majority already rejected. The minority can offer alternatives, accept the offer to have discussions about a workable solution, or they can keep whining and hope that things will be different, though they just enjoy whining more than progress.

The circumstances have changed so dramatically since multiple base closures, the reality of age 65 around the corner, and tell us about how much the lists have changed... what, the East list is like more than 1,000 numbers shorter than it was when Nic made his decision.

Its a whole new world and those who aren't content with things the way they are can just keep whining. Its a free country.

 

[traderjake]

Its a whole new world and those who aren't content with things the way they are can just keep whining. Its a free country.

said the smiling dinosaur

 

[Metroyet]

We can all talk about the past, cling to historic relics, and keep on keeping on. It is what it is and will be what it will be.

As distasteful as personal responsibility can be, it is still a fact of life...even if one ignores it.