OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Beancounter]

More than yours ! 1 per day! I KNOW I KNOW your minimization of the reality is in trouble but the "RISK" you were warned! 1 per day starting DEC 15!

"You were warned,"? You act like we have a choice. We no longer do, you're in the drivers seat. You were warned if you formed USAPA there would be no more west to negotiate with. Way to go Gomer Pyle you royaly screwed the pooch. You've got DOH, but you get LOA93 along with it. The only way to get off LOA93 is get off DOH. Quite a predicament you've gotten yourself into. Don't blame us, we didn't do the arbitration. If you want some one to blame, go look in the mirror at the guy in the four stripped dunce hat.

Bean

 

[cleardirect]

True enough, it's only one every other day and then two every three days. How does that stack up to movement in PHX, according to DUI, for 2013 & 2014?


seajay

That is half the claim made by mad man.

It drives me nuts when people out right lie.

 

[mrbreeze]

That is half the claim made by mad man.

It drives me nuts when people out right lie.

I agree (drives me nuts, too).......sorta like the lie that relative seniority is fair, while the truth is that you guys "can't wait to skip over us and put us on reserve for the rest of our careers."

Your lottery ticket is not going to happen. That is a windfall no matter how you look at it.

Again, call it seniroity or longevity......the bottom line is that time spent on the job has to be honored. "Relative seniority" is a made up term that just allows leapfrogging.

breeze

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Won't you be bidding it for pay purposes only?

Good luck. I'd like to see you make at least what a West Captain makes your last six months on the job at USAirways.

Why would I care what they make?, "END OF ALPA" has it correct I refuse to be a victim of DUI just like you choose your position for personal reasons, heck I'd like to see us all on DELTA wages but the circumstances are what they are!

 

[flyingskier]

Can't wait to skip over you and into a line while you sit reserve for the rest of your career.

What are you doing for the next 10 Christmases? Oh ya, working.

Just like the bid open now and every other bid you have ever participated in, what ever your date of hire can hold. Have at it.

Skier

 

[end_of_alpa]

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-11-16/us-airways-pilots-seek-information-tied-to-amr-deal

USAPA lacks standing to ask the court for any information. It will be denied and thousands of dollars misspent. What a waste.

 

[nic4us]

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-11-16/us-airways-pilots-seek-information-tied-to-amr-deal

USAPA lacks standing to ask the court for any information. It will be denied and thousands of dollars misspent. What a waste.

Ya think?

actually, I like this motion. Whether allowed or denied, usapa gets to learn that nobody cares what they think, and that reneging idiots don't get to sit at the grown up table.

 

[nic4us]

Now,now, little Nic........go run and collect your damages. Meanwhile, we'll run with the growth. And maybe you can convince DUI Doug that you guys should get the 330 flying so you can run the Phx-San turns with them. Remember .......single engine taxi and don't start the Apu.......

Got any idea what a litigation hold means for the company?

You won't be running with anything, other than what your Nic seniority can hold when merged into the AMR list.

have a happy holiday!

 

[nic4us]

True enough, it's only one every other day and then two every three days. How does that stack up to movement in PHX, according to DUI, for 2013 & 2014?


seajay

Looks more like an average of one every two days for the next two years. One short of being exactly that....

The way it stacks up against PHX is somewhat meaningless. unless of course you are looking for motivation in a Hybrid DFR trial.

 

[cleardirect]

I agree (drives me nuts, too).......sorta like the lie that relative seniority is fair, while the truth is that you guys "can't wait to skip over us and put us on reserve for the rest of our careers."

Your lottery ticket is not going to happen. That is a windfall no matter how you look at it.

Again, call it seniroity or longevity......the bottom line is that time spent on the job has to be honored. "Relative seniority" is a made up term that just allows leapfrogging.

breeze

This seems to be the problem. East pilots don't know the difference between seniority and longevity or facts and opinion.

Longevity is not seniority.

Your opinion is not a fact. Your opinion that relative seniority is "made up term" is not fact or that relative seniority is not fair.

But a court, judge Silver and the man hired to decide what is fair George Nicolau that is a fact.

An impartial arbitrator’s decision regarding an appropriate method of seniority integration is powerful evidence of a fair result.

Mad Mut saying that there will be one retirement a day when the fact facts are it really is half if that. His statement is a lie. I informed him of the facts yet he continued to spread the lie.

Like you the Nicolau has been determined to be fair. Yet you continue to spread the lie that it is not.

 

[cleardirect]

To all of the hypocrites on the east.

Many of you scream about how unfair the Nicolau is. How you will NEVER allow a seniority list that does not honor LOS or DOH. How the only fair way to integrate is by service to the company.

Well it seems that only applies when it favors east pilots and not really a “gold standard” philosophy.

Dave O’Dell and other west pilots have worked for US Airways for 8 years. Yet he has been placed below new hires. Pilots with now 8 years less as Breeze would say “seniority”. Yet what have any of you done to correct the injustice of a west pilot having his “seniority stolen”? Where have been your cries of unfairness for these long suffering west pilots? Have any of you demanded that usapa file a grievance to correct this horror? After all the C&BL of usapa demands integration by DOH. We do not need a joint contract to place those west pilots moving to the east just a demonstration of consistent principles.

You east pilots say that a LUP is that length of service is all important and that you will use that as a defense in court.

Well gentlemen past actions and consistency of policy is strong evidence in court. How are you going to argue that DOH is the end all be all of usapa if you have done nothing for west pilots when they came east not using DOH but want all east pilots to have DOH when it benefits east pilots?

When you fly with those new hires are you telling them they are stealing a west pilot’s seniority because they have 8 years less seniority than the man that put his time in for the company?

Past actions demonstrate what usapa really wants. That is to put as many west pilots below east pilots as possible. By not demanding a consistent seniority method you east pilots have destroyed what you think your defense was in court. Usapa had a chance to demonstrate that they think DOH is important and actually ignored your C&BL by not doing anything for the west pilots coming east

So much for the “gold standard” of seniority that must only apply to east pilots.

CYIC

 

[end_of_alpa]

Got any idea what a litigation hold means for the company?

You won't be running with anything, other than what your Nic seniority can hold when merged into the AMR list.

have a happy holiday!

There is also the term "sham action". (Anyone can download Black's Law Dictionary on apple apps for ipad and be their own lawyer). So when the Parker crew news tapes are admitted into evidence, along with the fact that ALPA policy is internal in its nature then this whole sham action you propose to bring falls far short of the issues of law, regardless of whether there is any dispute over issues of fact, which I doubt there will be after all the briefs that have been filed so far.

The company is simply buying time.

Keep tilting at windmills and enjoy your holiday.

 

[Metroyet]

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-11-16/us-airways-pilots-seek-information-tied-to-amr-deal

USAPA lacks standing to ask the court for any information. It will be denied and thousands of dollars misspent. What a waste.

You should run for office and run things correctly....never mind. I forgot. You did...and we're summarily crushed by your colleagues. I guess you and your pickleballers union have a lot in common. Nobody gives two sh@ts what you think.

 

[nic4us]

To all of the hypocrites on the east.

Many of you scream about how unfair the Nicolau is. How you will NEVER allow a seniority list that does not honor LOS or DOH. How the only fair way to integrate is by service to the company.

Well it seems that only applies when it favors east pilots and not really a “gold standard” philosophy.

Dave O’Dell and other west pilots have worked for US Airways for 8 years. Yet he has been placed below new hires. Pilots with now 8 years less as Breeze would say “seniority”. Yet what have any of you done to correct the injustice of a west
pilot having his “seniority stolen”? Where have been your cries of unfairness for these long suffering west pilots? Have any of you demanded that usapa file a grievance to correct this horror? After all the C&BL of usapa demands integration by DOH. We
do not need a joint contract to place those west pilots moving to the east just a demonstration of consistent principles.

You east pilots say that a LUP is that length of service is all important and that you will use that as a defense in court.

Well gentlemen past actions and consistency of policy is strong evidence in court. How are you going to argue that DOH is the end all be all of usapa if you have done nothing for west pilots when they came east not using DOH but want all east pilots to have DOH when it benefits east pilots?

When you fly with those new hires are you telling them they are stealing a west pilot’s seniority because they have 8 years less seniority than the man that put his time in for the company?

Past actions demonstrate what usapa really wants. That is to put as many west pilots below east pilots as possible. By not demanding a consistent seniority method you east pilots have destroyed what you think your defense was in court. Usapa had a chance to demonstrate that they think DOH is important and actually ignored your C&BL by not
doing anything for the west pilots coming east

So much for the “gold standard” of seniority that must only apply to east pilots.

CYIC

very good post Clear...but you left out one thing.

Upper management has Means, Motive and Opportunity to collude with usapa in these direct violations of the transition agreement.

 

[nic4us]

There is also the term "sham action". (Anyone can download Black's Law Dictionary on apple apps for ipad and be their own lawyer). So when the Parker crew news tapes are admitted into evidence, along with the fact that ALPA policy is internal in its nature then this whole sham action you propose to bring falls far short of the issues of law, regardless of whether there is any dispute over issues of fact, which I doubt there will be after all the briefs that have been filed so far.

The company is simply buying time.

Keep tilting at windmills and enjoy your holiday.

AOL is funded, but not overly funded enough to file frivolous lawsuits.

that is the purview of usapa.

the West is not tilting at windmills, but we most certainly have the lance to slay a dragon when it shows up.