OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[end_of_alpa]

To all of the hypocrites on the east.

Many of you scream about how unfair the Nicolau is. How you will NEVER allow a seniority list that does not honor LOS or DOH. How the only fair way to integrate is by service to the company.

Well it seems that only applies when it favors east pilots and not really a “gold standard” philosophy.

Dave O’Dell and other west pilots have worked for US Airways for 8 years. Yet he has been placed below new hires. Pilots with now 8 years less as Breeze would say “seniority”. Yet what have any of you done to correct the injustice of a west pilot having his “seniority stolen”? Where have been your cries of unfairness for these long suffering west pilots? Have any of you demanded that usapa file a grievance to correct this horror? After all the C&BL of usapa demands integration by DOH. We do not need a joint contract to place those west pilots moving to the east just a demonstration of consistent principles.

You east pilots say that a LUP is that length of service is all important and that you will use that as a defense in court.

Well gentlemen past actions and consistency of policy is strong evidence in court. How are you going to argue that DOH is the end all be all of usapa if you have done nothing for west pilots when they came east not using DOH but want all east pilots to have DOH when it benefits east pilots?

When you fly with those new hires are you telling them they are stealing a west pilot’s seniority because they have 8 years less seniority than the man that put his time in for the company?

Past actions demonstrate what usapa really wants. That is to put as many west pilots below east pilots as possible. By not demanding a consistent seniority method you east pilots have destroyed what you think your defense was in court. Usapa had a chance to demonstrate that they think DOH is important and actually ignored your C&BL by not doing anything for the west pilots coming east

So much for the “gold standard” of seniority that must only apply to east pilots.

CYIC

That issue was grieved and YOUR legal experts failed to come to the arbitration hearing. That is why it's that way. I've explained it to those West pilots and they know FULL WELL why their seniority is now that way and will continue to get worse for those that remain out on furlough longer. Remember, the company DOESN'T care about seniority (longevity, age, sex, etc.) they just don't want to pay for it.

Keep tilting at windmills. Have a Happy Holiday in PHX.

Question to you, BTW, are you going to keep repeating this argument again next year?

 

[end_of_alpa]

AOL is funded, but not overly funded enough to file frivolous lawsuits.

that is the purview of usapa.

the West is not tilting at windmills, but we most certainly have the lance to slay a dragon when it shows up.

So now we go from Spartans to "dragon slayers"?

Your not Mike, the same guy a few years ago in the Parker crews news who stated "We hate you guys"?

Parker told you "that's not productive". Would that be short for GROW UP?

 

[BLT]

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman (1903) "Maxims for Revolutionists"

 

[cleardirect]

There is also the term "sham action". (Anyone can download Black's Law Dictionary on apple apps for ipad and be their own lawyer). So when the Parker crew news tapes are admitted into evidence, along with the fact that ALPA policy is internal in its nature then this whole sham action you propose to bring falls far short of the issues of law, regardless of whether there is any dispute over issues of fact, which I doubt there will be after all the briefs that have been filed so far.

The company is simply buying time.

Keep tilting at windmills and enjoy your holiday.

How many crew news videos were admitted during the Addington trial?

usapa can try and submit those videos but those are just internal communication means nothing. That would allow us to put Parker under oath on the stand. I think Parker may have a different story under oath. Just look at what he says in crew news and what he files in court.

ALPA merger policy was internal right up to the point where the company accepted it according to the T/A.

 

[cleardirect]

That issue was grieved and YOUR legal experts failed to come to the arbitration hearing. That is why it's that way. I've explained it to those West pilots and they know FULL WELL why their seniority is now that way and will continue to get worse for those that remain out on furlough longer. Remember, the company DOESN'T care about seniority (longevity, age, sex, etc.) they just don't want to pay for it.

Keep tilting at windmills. Have a Happy Holiday in PHX.

Question to you, BTW, are you going to keep repeating this argument again next year?

What! No,No, No. usapa does not believe in arbitration results. So we can ignore that and usapa should prove that they really really believe in DOH and fix that 8 year "seniority" difference.

The company may not care about seniority but they do care about contract signed and liability.

Why would I repeat this argument next year? Are we still going to be waiting for usapa to get a contract? Are we still going to be waiting for usapa to find a LUP? Are you still going to be on LOA 93 next year?

 

[end_of_alpa]

How many crew news videos were admitted during the Addington trial?

usapa can try and submit those videos but those are just internal communication means nothing. That would allow us to put Parker under oath on the stand. I think Parker may have a different story under oath. Just look at what he says in crew news and what he files in court.

ALPA merger policy was internal right up to the point where the company accepted it according to the T/A.

You mean the Addington trial "legally nullified" by the appeals court?
You mean the declaratory judgment action held for count II in favor of USAPA?
You mean at least FOUR, YES THAT'S FOUR, Crew news videos explaining to you and yours what I just posted the other day? (Not to mention the 10-K).

So Parker is going to testify he was LYING in those videos?

Oh and ALPA merger policy in the TRANSITION agreement was in NO WAY RATIFIED by the rank and file let alone under the "Dual ratification" policy allowed for under that same policy. Oh, BTW, it's still internal policy.....only it's not ours.

Also, ALPA, USAPA, IBT, AFL-CIO and all the other unions have what the courts term "attorney-client" type relationship and cannot commit anyone to any contract without OUR consent....that's a legal fact that has been held true in court time after time, otherwise called a "legitimate union purpose". That legal consent is memorialized by a vote.

Have a good holiday.

BTW the reason I came back to post was I happen to know that BOTH USAPA AND THE COMPANY follow these web boards. Looking forward to having this "evidence" brought forth. I'm not really saying evidence in court per se, I'm really saying that this is one form of how they keep their pulse on the pilots. Sort of an informal web poll.

 

[end_of_alpa]

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman (1903) "Maxims for Revolutionists"

I like that! Is it copyrighted?

 

[end_of_alpa]

What! No,No, No. usapa does not believe in arbitration results. So we can ignore that and usapa should prove that they really really believe in DOH and fix that 8 year "seniority" difference.

The company may not care about seniority but they do care about contract signed and liability.

Why would I repeat this argument next year? Are we still going to be waiting for usapa to get a contract? Are we still going to be waiting for usapa to find a LUP? Are you still going to be on LOA 93 next year?

You mean through a so called "job action" where west crew news videos keep asking the company why they continue to tolerate us taxiing with three engines on not asking for direct or making unnecessary write ups to cost the company more money?

I didn't do any of that last year (or ever in my career) and I'm not doing it now. But you are welcome to do that and see where that gets you. I didn't stick my neck out then and I have no intention of changing that ever, especially for you. They pay me what they pay me and I will do the SOP's in the FOM. Remember, injunction, right?

BTW, in America anybody can sue anyone for anything. They call this tilting at windmills.

I know you'll fly these aircraft whether we come to work or not.....that's why I come to work. I enjoy my job, I'm pity you that you don't.

 

[end_of_alpa]

What! No,No, No. usapa does not believe in arbitration results. So we can ignore that and usapa should prove that they really really believe in DOH and fix that 8 year "seniority" difference.

The company may not care about seniority but they do care about contract signed and liability.

Why would I repeat this argument next year? Are we still going to be waiting for usapa to get a contract? Are we still going to be waiting for usapa to find a LUP? Are you still going to be on LOA 93 next year?

Oh, BTW, are you Mike "we hate you guys" ________?

Doug "well that's not productive" Parker would like to know.

 

[Portly Dorman]

BTW the reason I came back to post was I happen to know that BOTH USAPA AND THE COMPANY follow these web boards. Looking forward to having this "evidence" brought forth. I'm not really saying evidence in court per se, I'm really saying that this is one form of how they keep their pulse on the pilots. Sort of an informal web poll.

Dear usapa

Please provide us a contract to vote on. It's been almost 6 years now, crew meals and hostage benefits is the only thing you could agree on, really?

I knew the 90 days was a joke but 6 years?? You promised the pilots would get to have a say and get to vote. What have we voted on except for inept leadership???

Put up or shut up. Your giving the entire contract way to get DOH isn't necessary anymore, you have your LUP.

Go for it boys!!

Hugs

Portly

 

[mrbreeze]

To all of the hypocrites on the east.

Many of you scream about how unfair the Nicolau is. How you will NEVER allow a seniority list that does not honor LOS or DOH. How the only fair way to integrate is by service to the company.

Well it seems that only applies when it favors east pilots and not really a “gold standard” philosophy.

Dave O’Dell and other west pilots have worked for US Airways for 8 years. Yet he has been placed below new hires. Pilots with now 8 years less as Breeze would say “seniority”. Yet what have any of you done to correct the injustice of a west pilot having his “seniority stolen”? Where have been your cries of unfairness for these long suffering west pilots? Have any of you demanded that usapa file a grievance to correct this horror? After all the C&BL of usapa demands integration by DOH. We do not need a joint contract to place those west pilots moving to the east just a demonstration of consistent principles.

You east pilots say that a LUP is that length of service is all important and that you will use that as a defense in court.

Well gentlemen past actions and consistency of policy is strong evidence in court. How are you going to argue that DOH is the end all be all of usapa if you have done nothing for west pilots when they came east not using DOH but want all east pilots to have DOH when it benefits east pilots?

When you fly with those new hires are you telling them they are stealing a west pilot’s seniority because they have 8 years less seniority than the man that put his time in for the company?

Past actions demonstrate what usapa really wants. That is to put as many west pilots below east pilots as possible. By not demanding a consistent seniority method you east pilots have destroyed what you think your defense was in court. Usapa had a chance to demonstrate that they think DOH is important and actually ignored your C&BL by not doing anything for the west pilots coming east

So much for the “gold standard” of seniority that must only apply to east pilots.

CYIC

You should re-read your post. The ONLY thing this points to is the fact that the West pilots are unwilling to try to work out a reasonable solution to the problem, yet you want us to stand up for you and support you.

If you don't like what is currently taking place.....the East bid movement, East hiring, and the O'Dell situation, just try and work things out with YOUR union. That's the only answer, along with dropping the threat of a lawsuit. As long as you refuse to try and work things out, they will just get worse for the West guys.

This union is going to leave you guys behind if you don't get onboard.
breeze

 

[nic4us]

Oh, BTW, are you Mike "we hate you guys" ________?

Doug "well that's not productive" Parker would like to know.

I don't recall that as being ...umm...Mike.

Have you watched the Nov CLT crewnews?

Parker sums up the Silver ruling real nice. DOH is dead. Usapa has no threat, but the West....well let's just say.."some peoples rights would be violated" and the company is on the hook if usapa delivers anything other than the Nic.

BTW...we don't hate you guys...we just hate that your stupidity is costing us all a ton of money.

New catch phrase on the West..."reparations".....you are going to see either a bump and flush or a very large damages award...so I am guessing the company will opt for the bump and flush. this is inclusive if there is an AMR deal.

Oh, one more thing..."tilting at windmills" is a Don Quiote reference, and usapa is a classic example of the delusion involved.

 

[Metroyet]

This union is going to leave you guys behind if you don't get onboard.
breeze

One problem. That's ILLEGAL. The "union" has done everything in its power to try and leave behind the west. 7 years now and the East hasn't advanced a nanometer. The "East attrition" is completely irreverent as there is no such thing. It's US Airways attrition. Whatever benefits there are to that WILL BE SHARED EVENTUALLY. At some point every single upgrade will go to West pilots instead of the 1 out of 3 nicalau allowed for. It's just a matter of time.

 

[traderjake]

You should re-read your post. The ONLY thing this points to is the fact that the West pilots are unwilling to try to work out a reasonable solution to the problem, yet you want us to stand up for you and support you.

You're the one who needs to re-read.

A reasonable solution was worked out, just like the Shuttle and Delta-Northwest mergers.

 

[cleardirect]

Oh, BTW, are you Mike "we hate you guys" ________?

Doug "well that's not productive" Parker would like to know.

Man you guys have thin skin.

That comment was 4 years ago and it still bothers you guys. Wow was that the first time anyone has told you flat out that east pilots are hated?

Maybe if you all knew it a long time ago you might have changed your behavior. A little secret. After four years and multiple attacks from east pilots on the west. We don't like you any more today then we did then.