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OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

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Because it blows?

Why do you keep telling the East to accept, embrace, and roll out the red carpet for the NIC? Is it because, in spite of the millions you've spent trying to force it, you have been unable to do so using every legal avenue available to you? It certainly appears that way.

We'll have to wait and see what USAPA puts up as an integration proposal knowing that it will have to be defended in court. Of course that also means the NIC has to be defended since that is the slide rule Marty will use to judge the other proposal by. You've lost the case of trying to impose it. Now you will have to see both integration methods on trial before a judge and jury. I'm sure that is exactly what you DON'T want, but that is where this is headed.

BTW, I am not in favor of either a do over or a three way at this point. It's gone on too long. Let's put two seniority methods on trial and see which one prevails.

Driver...
"Because it blows" is not an answer.

I don't care if the east likes the Nic or not, they will eventually be forced to accept it as a result of their previous agreements to do so. Any judge that would allow a union to evade the responsibilities of binding arbitration would be the judge that greenlights the dismantling of the arbitration system, and I doubt you'll find even the most activist of judges willing to throw themselves on that land mine.

I doubt any judge will weigh the fairness of either integration methodology, since the primary question is the legitmacy of binding arbitration. Fairness is in the eye of the beholder so to speak, but responsibiility is pretty clear-cut.

We will have to wait for USAPA to submit a methodology that avoids the DFR threat from either side (which is precisely why ALPA did not want to put itself in that position and utilized arbitration). What puts us in uncharted waters is dealing with a group of people so warped and vindictive that they would withhold presenting a contract to vote on until they have stolen the benefits intended in the arbitration under the protection of No Bump No Flush.

I would say that there are ways for the west to recapture the intended position of the Nic under a displacement/ Nic Superseniority right of first return plan, so to those who felt entitled to take what was denied them in the Nic, I say don't get too comfortable in that seat. You are only temporarily renting it from a west pilot.
 
Just like your all or nothing give me DOH or else. Tell me, oh wise one, just how we will ever find "middle ground" when DOH is clearly the centerpiece of your "union's" constitution and bylaws. To the easthole contingent middle ground is the west pilots rolling over and giving up. Thus, our "take no prisoners" mentality. We aren't giving up. Deal with it.

I guess the middle ground will be who ultimately prevails in court.
 
It is an internal union dispute. No judge is allowed to interfere in a unions' internal mechanism. No judge is allowed to tell a union what it may or may not propose with regard to it's membership. It is not binding. It is only binding between the employer and the union, or a Federal arbitration. Your only recourse is the DFR. Period.
Silver reaffirmed that very clearly.
 
"Because it blows" is not an answer.

I don't care if the east likes the Nic or not, they will eventually be forced to accept it as a result of their previous agreements to do so.
Well, that just hasn't been the case, has it? The 9th could have done it and didn't. Judge Silver could have done it and didn't. Now you will probably ask the 9th to rethink their decision...again.
I doubt any judge will weigh the fairness of either integration methodology, since the primary question is the legitmacy of binding arbitration. Fairness is in the eye of the beholder so to speak, but responsibiility is pretty clear-cut.
See above.
We will have to wait for USAPA to submit a methodology that avoids the DFR threat from either.
That won't ever happen. It only takes one pilot and one lawer and you're off to the races again.
I would say that there are ways for the west to recapture the intended position of the Nic under a displacement/ Nic Superseniority right of first return plan, so to those who felt entitled to take what was denied them in the Nic, I say don't get too comfortable in that seat. You are only temporarily renting it from a west pilot.
Hmmmmmm, don't you have to win first?

Driver...
 
Give up on them driver. They need to go to court again and learn their only possible avenue of attack is harm. Period.
 
It is an internal union dispute. No judge is allowed to interfere in a unions' internal mechanism. No judge is allowed to tell a union what it may or may not propose with regard to it's membership. It is not binding. It is only binding between the employer and the union, or a Federal arbitration. Your only recourse is the DFR. Period.
Silver reaffirmed that very clearly.

Silver did NOT give the company immunity from the responsibility it has to the TA, which is what they were looking for. It is doubtful the company will expose itself to a breach of contract without the immunity it sought.
 
You fools always resort to namecalling......

Once again...one just couldn't make this stuff up..... 😉

My greatest sense of personal loss throughout all this mess, has been the necessary surrendering of my previously, long-held and well-cherished belief (now, but past fantasy, as it sadly turns out) that it required some slight degree of actual intelligence for anyone to find their way to the front seat(s) in even so much as an airliner....
 
I don't care if the east likes the Nic or not, they will eventually be forced to accept it.....

Don't give up. There is help available from many sources.

http://people.howstuffworks.com/cult7.htm
 
I will keep my position in hopes that it is to your detriment. That's the point. You fools always resort to namecalling when you know you're wrong. That's a tell.

"You FOOLS always resort to name calling.." Don't you see any problem with that statement? Which side of this fight regularly uses "scab,scumbag, thieves" etc?

You really should give EAP a call.
 
Overtaken by events...maybe..but,,

Threeway...highly unlikely....how does the West get seperate representation fom usapa, and if the West has seperate rep...is usapa then guilty at that point of not representing the West? Further, what if say DCA then demands sepereate reps, to protect their intereset, and the TWA pilots sue to get seperate repst to look out for their interest? A 3 way causes huge problems.

So, the overtaking will mean Nic and the AMR list combined in a "fair and equitable manner" as per AM and MB.


Also, I am sure you were right about fencing and the AMR 777 captain, the point was that DOH is an absolute no go in an LCC/AMR merger (fencing included) and east poster's BS about the legitimacy of DOH at LCC an in regard to the ramifications of the nic are just that BS.


There is no East-West JCBA, hence no NIC. When and if a merger with AMR occurs and when USAPA and APA get to the issue of SLI, the TWO lists that do exist at LCC will be put on the table and the discussion will continue from there. If unable to reach a negotiated agreement (very likely) on the matter, an arbitrated MB solution (also very likely) will be reached.

That's the way it will be and as far as the company is concerned, the longer the process takes, the better. Eventually, a JCBA will be in place and then everyone can start sending more money to their lawyers to their hearts content. Chances of prevailing in the face of a ratified and or arbitrated JCBA, not so good, but in a country where you can sue someone for a bad date, go ahead and knock yourself out.


seajay
 
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