OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

I will take a shot at this....

nic4us, ever since the west pilots have tried to take advantage of the east pilots and leap frog 15 yrs in seniority, "west class" is an oxymoron in the eyes of the east pilots.

breeze

Now I understand...it is the consensus out east that the West pilots lack "class" because we sought and were awarded a "fair and equitable" seniority list integration that complied with the company's statement of labor principles and federal law.

I suppose by lacking "class" you might also mean, we don't kowtow to reneging malcontents, or their fake union.

 

[Ames]

The newest east chant; "it's over, you lose!!". If they say it enough then it will become true. Honest.

Now I'm convinced. The east bought the west AWA would be liquidated without the east saving it. West pilots are rookies. West pilots couldn't get a job anywhere else. Nicolau is a senile old man. Judge Wake is an idiot. The judges on the 9th are gods. Leonidas is broke. An east pilot with 17 years of DOH should not be junior to a west new hire..

It's over we lost. Now let's just take our place at the bottom of their list and help these deserving, long sacrificing pilots get a raise and better work rules and let's help them get DOH in the American merger. It is, after all, the gold standard.

 

[Metroyet]

The newest east chant; "it's over, you lose!!". If they say it enough then it will become true. Honest.

Now I'm convinced. The east bought the west AWA would be liquidated without the east saving it. West pilots are rookies. West pilots couldn't get a job anywhere else. Nicolau is a senile old man. Judge Wake is an idiot. The judges on the 9th are gods. Leonidas is broke. An east pilot with 17 years of DOH should not be junior to a west new hire..

It's over we lost. Now let's just take our place at the bottom of their list and help these deserving, long sacrificing pilots get a raise and better work rules and let's help them get DOH in the American merger. It is, after all, the gold standard.

Or just appeal for the fun of it and force LOA93 for another couple years or until APA cures the cancer.

 

[Move2CLT]

I will take a shot at this....

nic4us, ever since the west pilots have tried to take advantage of the east pilots and leap frog 15 yrs in seniority, "west class" is an oxymoron in the eyes of the east pilots.

breeze

More stupidity from an eastie.

How about that arbitration you east jerkoffs agreed to. You've true to rebuild your f'ed up careers off of ours and we stopped your greedy SOBs from doing it.

And now you're pissed.

Suck it.

 

[Pi brat]

Or just appeal for the fun of it and force LOA93 for another couple years or until APA cures the cancer.

The fun of it. That's exactly the kind of genius thinking we have come to expect from you. Maybe your really don't work for US. Maybe you're working at the Apple store.

 

[Pi brat]

More stupidity from an eastie.

How about that arbitration you east jerkoffs agreed to. You've true to rebuild your f'ed up careers off of ours and we stopped your greedy SOBs from doing it.

And now you're pissed.

Suck it.

Bad day huh uhaul? I'm guessing you didn't get the deposit back.

 

[Move2CLT]

Bad day huh uhaul? I'm guessing you didn't get the deposit back.

Not at all hairPi.

Great day in fact. Thanks for asking AW.

 

[Move2CLT]

October 12, 2012

Leonidas Update

Dear EASTUS1,

Yesterday, Judge Silver issued her final ruling on the Company’s Declaratory Action. You can read the order here

Judge Silver did incorporate one addition requested by West Pilots’ attorney Marty Harper:

“Accordingly, if USAPA wishes to abandon the Nicolau Award and accept the consequences of this course of action, it is free to do so.” (Doc. 193, p.7, line 14.)

USAPA must have missed that in their update today.

Overall, there were not any surprises in the order based on her line of questioning from the October 2nd oral arguments. Judge Silver made it clear that she felt constrained by the Ninth’s opinion in Addington, and therefore she could not offer as much guidance as she had originally hoped. What she did lay out in plain language is that USAPA’s freedom to negotiate is limited by their duty to fairly represent the West. The significant part of the order is the connection made between USAPA’s DFR and the Nicolau:

“Of course, in negotiating for a particular seniority regime, USAPA must not breach its duty of fair representation. Accordingly, if USAPA wishes to abandon the Nicolau Award and accept the consequences of this course of action, it is free to do so. By discarding the result of a valid arbitration and negotiating for a different seniority regime, USAPA is running the risk that it will be sued by the disadvantaged pilots when the new collective bargaining agreement is finalized. An impartial arbitrator’s decision regarding an appropriate method of seniority integration is powerful evidence of a fair result. Discarding the Nicolau Award places USAPA on dangerous ground.” .(Doc. 193, p.7.)

It is unmistakable that what Judge Silver is saying here is that a non-Nicolau list will be compared against the Nicolau for purposes of the DFR. The Nicolau doesn’t disappear. Rather, it will be the yardstick against which any non-Nicolau will be measured. Where that leaves all of us--- East and West – is that USAPA’s structure, combined with the Ninth’s ruling, has created an endless loop for all US Airways pilots and for the Company. The reason is that the Company must negotiate with USAPA now, and since they don’t have a judicial determination on whether a non-Nicolau is a DFR until it is too late for them to avoid liability, it is up to USAPA to convince the Company that there exists a legitimate union objective to disregard a binding arbitration and instead accept a seniority scheme which benefits every East pilot at the expense of every West pilot. In other words, USAPA will now sit at the negotiating table and try to make the argument that it is in the Company’s best interests to raise pilot costs across the board in the form of a new contract, and at the same time, venture with USAPA to the “dangerous ground” of avoiding the Nicolau.

If you’re on the East, plan on working under LOA93 for a lot longer.

 

[Move2CLT]

Luv won't be able to buy all that extra chicken hex was hoping for now that he'll be on LOA93 for a few more years.

 

[Pi brat]

Not at all hairPi.

Great day in fact. Thanks for asking AW.

Sure thing DH.

I’m finally cleaning out my B.S file. Here they are, sorry I didn’t get all the authors. Any of these yours uhaul?


“You'll be working under a Nic. inclusive joint contract by next Christmas.

MARK MY WORDS!!

Res Judicata...a thing already decided.
“


“By April, USAPA's already immensely deep hole they're in is going to get immeasurably deeper. They can either accept the ruling and move on with a nic inclusive contract or they can appeal and waste another year at poverty wages. I don't care either way. USAPA holds NO CARDS here and the contractual delays are crushing the East...now some of you nut jobs are flying out to phoenix to embarrass yourselves at the PHX crew news like that bible thumping, incoherent nut case.

Less than two weeks away to Watch USCABA get destroyed in court. Can't wait.”


“You're wrong. This will move through Judge Silver's court pretty quickly. The union controlled by the East will get its a$$ handed to it, refuse to accept the ruling, appeal, wash rinse spin. It's not the courts that's the problem. It's not the West that's the problem. And dare I say it's not even the company that's the problem.”

“Ames Today, 11:43 AM


cleardirect, on 31 December 2011 - 11:34 AM, said:
I think what the west is saying the seniority fight will be over by April. Once Silver rules that should be the end. The company will point to the court and say the court said. an appeal is not going to matter. Once the company makes up their mind and it will time to move towards a contract or merger. If there is a merger the company is going to say the seniority dispute is over so investors don't worry.

An appeal does not matter. Even if the court says not ripe or you can do something other than the Nicolau They can still stand on the Nicolau. they need to move forward and are not going to wait much longer. So yes the seniority issue will be over by April. The usapa leadership issue should be over by April too.



Well said. I, too, will go on record to say that the seniority fight will be over upon Judge Silver's ruling. There is no doubt the east will continue to stamp their feet, hold their breath, and cry but the fight will be over. Tantrums will continue but they will be totally impotent.”

And, my all time favorite:

Run Like Hell
Posted Today, 04:14 PM 9/19/10

• Newbie

• Group: Registered Member
• Posts: 10
• Joined: 12-September 10

All this fighting, but keep in mind that within twelve months

1. We WILL have a new contract

2. It WILL contain PBS

3. The nic WILL be the list

4. Cleary WILL be gone

5. We won't be paired with the FA's

6. The FO won't be doing the silly east ritual of signing everyone in at the hotel

7. This is NOT your fathers USAir! Get over it!

 

[Pi brat]

Judge Silver did incorporate one addition requested by West Pilots' attorney Marty Harper:

"Accordingly, if USAPA wishes to abandon the Nicolau Award and accept the consequences of this course of action, it is free to do so." (Doc. 193, p.7, line 14.)

THAT'S what Marty got in? Wow, he really did earn his money!

 

[Move2CLT]

THAT'S what Marty got in? Wow, he really did earn his money!

Good enough.

You're still on LOA93 AW.

 

[cleardirect]

The newest east chant; "it's over, you lose!!". If they say it enough then it will become true. Honest.

Now I'm convinced. The east bought the west AWA would be liquidated without the east saving it. West pilots are rookies. West pilots couldn't get a job anywhere else. Nicolau is a senile old man. Judge Wake is an idiot. The judges on the 9th are gods. Leonidas is broke. An east pilot with 17 years of DOH should not be junior to a west new hire..

It's over we lost. Now let's just take our place at the bottom of their list and help these deserving, long sacrificing pilots get a raise and better work rules and let's help them get DOH in the American merger. It is, after all, the gold standard.

Now all the east pilots have to do is wait for the west to be sold off. A merger with APA by DOH when the American pilots go into their list and they are kings of the world. All bow to east pilots.

 

[Hawkhunter]

You guys gave been saying that for a while and yet here you are on loa93 years later no closer to DOH.

Glad you're use to it because its staying that way.

"gave" = Have

 

[Hawkhunter]

Wow, hoping for 3%? LMAO.

And of course you'll hit it thus time - things are different, right? LMAO.

"thus" = this, pay attention and quit pissing your pants.