OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

LOA 93 , ! STAGNATION WEST, AS DUI POINTS TO THE OBVIOUS!, Your contract has "NO SCOPE" NO OPERATIONAL INTEGRATION as pointed out in the "RECALL METHOD" pointed out in a document on the USAPA website( BTW WHAT MORON ARGUED THAT FOR THE WEST?) and upheld because someone actually recognized "NO JOINT CBA, NO JOINT OPERATIONAL INTEGRATION , "NO LIST") ! NEW DAWN ! Gets better EAST moving forward! MM! BTW your contract (WEST) can be sold!

So what is the problem? Everything seems to be going your way. Now all you need is a contract and life is good.

You just have a couple small problems. One the T/A requires min block hours for the west and Parker is not going to sell the west.
The other is usapa has no LUP so no change to the Nicolau for you.
another small problem is usapa is still the bargaining agent and the are responsible for ALL pilots. If the east is making out so well it is usapa DFR responsibility to make sure ALL pilots are receiving the benefit of this airline. DFR's are not just about seniority.

But if you have won and indeed everything is going your way an adult would be a gracious winner. Instead you act like an ass. Maybe you are losing but just an ass no matter what.

where is that contract? $125 an hour to be a captain at a major airline. Embarrassing.

 

[luvthe9]

Amen LUV that list and yes "WE" have had our knock downs with all of them but "ERIC ROWE" led a big charge against ALPA national , I know, I know but he kicked ALPA's BUT and deserves respect!

I agree with you, was on the bus to Herndon with him but for him and his compass correction group that put Hummel in office was a major and I mean a major mistake, he's weak and clueless. Rowe, Menear, Thomas, Campbell and Ciabittoni need to take care of the problem that they created.

 

[Phoenix]

Gees dude. Could you be more intellectually dishonest. Are you so desperate to make a point that you now make up crap?

Going to blame pilots for everything that happens in PHX.

Nowhere in the article did it mentions pilots. It really has turned into monkeys flinging poo at the zoo.

If you are going to make a point at least be honest about it.

You are way too spun up dude, and are taking stuff way too personal. If you have chickens its ok by me, I eat at Chick-Fil-A all the time and at Bojangles too for the Chicken. I am too busy to raise them myself so I appreciate folks that are industrious enough to raise their own.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Why should you be thankful?

You have stated that you don't even work here. Is it possible that you are an F'ing liar!!!!

I think so.

You must be on the AOL ," DISSINEMATION OF FACTUAL INFORMATION " committee to keep those "MARTY DOLLARS" coming in!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

So what is the problem? Everything seems to be going your way. Now all you need is a contract and life is good.

You just have a couple small problems. One the T/A requires min block hours for the west and Parker is not going to sell the west.
The other is usapa has no LUP so no change to the Nicolau for you.
another small problem is usapa is still the bargaining agent and the are responsible for ALL pilots. If the east is making out so well it is usapa DFR responsibility to make sure ALL pilots are receiving the benefit of this airline. DFR's are not just about seniority.

But if you have won and indeed everything is going your way an adult would be a gracious winner. Instead you act like an ass. Maybe you are losing but just an ass no matter what.

where is that contract? $125 an hour to be a captain at a major airline. Embarrassing.

IN YOUR OPINION JUNIOR!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

I agree with you, was on the bus to Herndon with him but for him and his compass correction group that put Hummel in office was a major and I mean a major mistake, he's weak and clueless. Rowe, Menear, Thomas, Campbell and Ciabittoni need to take care of the problem that they created.

AGREED, I will give them a mulligan, they used it! Time for a reality check!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

So what is the problem? Everything seems to be going your way. Now all you need is a contract and life is good.

You just have a couple small problems. One the T/A requires min block hours for the west and Parker is not going to sell the west.
The other is usapa has no LUP so no change to the Nicolau for you.
another small problem is usapa is still the bargaining agent and the are responsible for ALL pilots. If the east is making out so well it is usapa DFR responsibility to make sure ALL pilots are receiving the benefit of this airline. DFR's are not just about seniority.

But if you have won and indeed everything is going your way an adult would be a gracious winner. Instead you act like an ass. Maybe you are losing but just an ass no matter what.

where is that contract? $125 an hour to be a captain at a major airline. Embarrassing.

AGREED but making a 125 an hour flying with a CAPT hired 13 years after you , "MORE EMBARRASSING"! BUT YOU WILL BE SOLD! A LUP is a ratifiable contract, the NIC is not your correct us EASTHOLES can file a "DFR" also!

 

[Claxon]

I agree with you, was on the bus to Herndon with him but for him and his compass correction group that put Hummel in office was a major and I mean a major mistake, he's weak and clueless. Rowe, Menear, Thomas, Campbell and Ciabittoni need to take care of the problem that they created.

I know I missed a lot of names who started USAPA. Eric Rowe and Jim Portale and many more. The following is an update before the Herndon road trip;;;

William S
From: aaa041-fastread@ames.alpa.org
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 6:53 AM
To: aaa041-fastread; aaa041-fastread
Subject: 41 Update 01-20-08
Page 1 of 4
1/20/2008
Update for January 20, 2008
Herndon II
Or
See How They Run…a meeting
Hey! It’s NOT a meeting!
As you all know we, Dave, Jim and I are loathe to comment on other Council’s business. But sometimes
events just overcome our ability to refrain! Recent events in Charlotte come to mind.
Marshall, Lance and Lyle not only happen to be sitting on “ground zero,” if you will, of ALPA survival;
they are also out of ideas on just what to say in the Association’s defense in the face of the enactment of
the Nicolau Award.
Captain Stephan has told your Council Chairman that it was Lance’s idea to bring in the ALPA heavy
hitters for a little meeting in CLT to help the Charlotte’s reps explain why they should support ALPA in
the representative election which has not yet been called...maybe ALPA knows something, eh? Well,
Jack didn’t exactly call it a meeting. You see, there’s a little constitutional problem with that. It seems as
though almost a couple hundred pilots have petitioned for the recall of the CLT reps to be added to the
next CLT meeting which creates a problem for the boys down there. You see, by constitution, only the
President of the Association or the Council Chair can call an LEC meeting. If a “special” LEC meeting
is called it must be preceded by a “regular” LEC meeting. This is a constitutional requirement in order
that the pilots’ business gets done and NOT the business of special interest groups within the
Association. So there will be no CLT LEC meeting in CLT the day of the next CLT LEC ALPA
National meeting. Dave and I would be willing to call it a Special Council #41 meeting if that would
give the CLT reps cover.
Herndon II-----Minus the Bus Ride
Many within the Association and your MEC, along with the CLT representatives believe that enough
time has passed since May for your wounds to heal from the announcement of the Nicolau Award. Now
may be in a more vulnerable financial position to sign onto Donn Butkovic’s plan to fix the Nicolau
Award with some money. Jack Stephan is hoping the movie that Marty Bell took of him in Herndon
will never be broadcast on U-Tube----Hey Jack, it’s the only one Marty’s got that can be shown in
mixed company, so what’s your problem? Eh? That fist in the air thingy about never, never sucking up
to Nicolau is ca-ca!
Million Dollar Rode Show
Yes! It’s a R-O-D-E show. This will be proof positive of just how hard a pilot group can be ridden by a
million dollar team of attorneys and have them still swallow the Nicolau Award. You are the ridden! In
addition to the crack ALPA legal staff, head of legal, head of representation (I’m not kidding), will be
about $600,000.00 worth of ALPA communications folks…all there to explain to you why after Prater
handed over Nicolau to Parker they are still the “best money can buy,” as they said in their latest flyer emailed
to you at YOUR expense.
Special Attraction….
A Re-Enactment
Those of you not MEC insiders and especially you Philly First Officers will love the tearful reenactment
of Lyle Newman’s teary speech to Prater given in DCA this past fall telling Prater how, if he
passed the list to the company and the age rule changed that Lyle Newman would become a Thirty-Six
Year First Officer on this property. Yep, hopefully you’ll see it live. This is an emotionally draining
performance - so we cannot be assured there will be more than one performance. It will be followed by
an explanation of why less than two weeks later he signed onto Pollock’s Posse, the ACPC group. It’s
quite a story.
BE THERE
CLT
JANUARY 22
HERNDON II
OR
SMACKDOWN IN CHARLOTTE
ALL ARE WELCOME
WELL ALMOST!
________________________________________________________________
OOOPS!
Page 2 of 4
1/20/2008
WE’RE UNINVITED
This just in…
Council 90 UPDATE
Monday, January 14, 2008
Fellow Pilots,
We have invited representatives of ALPA to come to CLT to discuss legal and collective bargaining
issues raised by our pilots and by USAPA. We feel obligated to support the pilots of USAirways by
providing you with as much information as possible regardless of which organization you support.
We have seen some emails that would rather turn your informational opportunity into a “rally” and
take the “opportunity to express to ALPA national our displeasure with the representation we have
been receiving from ALPA National” and “to kick ALPA off the property.”
This undignified approach to gathering information does a disservice to all of us who will be affected in
a representation election. We should make our decision on the basis of solid information rather than
emotions.
USAPA has held meetings in CLT and PHL in which ALPA members attended without any disruption.
We support our member’s right to speak directly with those who have knowledge of circumstances
and events in our history. We want you to be able to get answers to any questions you may have. We
have chosen the particular meeting space in CLT because it is more casual and will allow you to hold
individual conversations with the folks in attendance. If you don’t want more information, or have
already made up your mind, there is no need to stop by.
We will meet in the conference room behind the Business Center in the center of the food court on
the main floor. The meeting will be on January 22nd, from 10:00 am until 4:00 pm. We will be there to
introduce you to the invitees. We look forward to seeing you.
Fraternally,
Marshall Rogers Lance Svendsen Lyle Newman , 36 YEAR F/O, ACPC Guy,
Bill’s Buddy
Page 3 of 4
1/20/2008
AND SO DO WE!
FORGET WHAT THESE GUYS SAY
WE’LL SEE YOU THERE
GET RESTED
THEY AIN’T WORN US OUT YET!
THEY AIN’T GONNA!
Follow the three prong approach, Fly safe, Family First, and SAP down for quality of life.
Fraternally,
Eric Rowe Dave Ciabattoni Jim Portale
Chairman Vice Chairman Secretary/Treasurer
603-235-5045 610-627-5896 609-709-9515
councl41@worldpath.net
ciaalpa@comcast.net
compute@cybercomm.net
You can correspond with all three of us with the “contact us” link on our LEC website at:
http://crewroom.alpa.org/aaa041lec .
------------------------------

 

[traderjake]

I won't settle for another POS contract.

Absent a merger you'll retire on this POS contract.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Absent a merger you'll retire on this POS contract.

Karma, D.E.

Karma.

Enjoy your holiday.

 

[Claxon]

From: aaa041-fastread@ames.alpa.org
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 8:35 AM
To: aaa041-fastread; aaa041-fastread
Subject: 41 Update 01-18-08
Page 1 of 4
1/19/2008
Update for January 18, 2008
Part 3 of the Trilogy
Fellow Philadelphia Pilots,
We just got done reading another Chairman’s message which has inspired us to release part three of our
trilogy started last month.
Does anyone really believe that there won’t be a “10 day lock down?” ALPA National and our
Chairman need this to happen to legitimize what will come next. And hey, don’t worry about the
cost….ALPA has it covered. Additionally the Wilson center polling will provide additional cover for
ALPA self serving actions. The only thing they don’t have covered yet, is your vote…..they’ll be
working on that with FUD. Did you notice Jack didn’t mention our parity and retro pay.
On December 1st our MEC Chairman Captain Jack Stephan penned another one of his messages
distributed to all pilots from the Chairman’s bully pulpit. In that missive we fondly titled, The Firewall
Chat, Jack disparages the actions of your PHL reps and claims inaccuracies in our Council 41 Updates.
Once again, Jack's true colors are showing.
Here are a few observations and comments your PHL reps would like to share with you regarding a few
pertinent messages from MEC Chairman Jack Stephan:
May 4, 2007: He shared “in your outrage and your indignation” about the Nicolau Award. He also
assured us that the MEC “will not just sit back and remain victims of this travesty.”
May 21, 2007: In front of 400 Pilots at the Bus Trip to Herndon, Jack tells Captain Prater we are not
interested in “Fixing the Nicolau Award.”
Flip-flop to:
December 1, 2007: Jack writes that you will be “asked to ratify a single agreement that would
implement the Nicolau Award.”
Then, in his Chairman’s message dated December 15, 2007 he’s back to:
And again, let me make this perfectly clear. The Nicolau Award, as is, will never see the light of
day.
September 6, 2004: MEC Communications Chairman Jack Stephan is the ultimate master of incendiary
and divisive communications as he served ex-MEC “Chairman-For-Life” Bill Pollock in the attempt to
get you to buy onto the ALPA-sponsored 6 cents CASM scheme. This time period, the summer and fall
of 2004 found this pilot group divided and fighting among themselves, loaded with misinformation and
political mudslinging under the leadership of Bill Pollock and Jack Stephan. Does anyone believe we
would still be working some three years later under a bankruptcy court 1113 imposed contract, today?
Great advice.
November 7, 2007: Jack warns us that “Incendiary and divisive communications will only bring us back
to the dismal days of LOA 93. It didn’t work for us then and it won’t work now.”
Waffle House doesn’t have this many waffles.
What’s the difference between then and now?
The short story is that someone is up to something, but their actions are not out in the light. This
illegally-formed and illegally staffed Blue Ribbon Committee has begun to morph into a Shadow
MEC/JNC, complete with ALPA National lawyers doing behind-the-scenes support, and members of
the JNC hard at work. The phrase “implementation of the Nicolau Award” is showing up more and more
in official MEC Chairman’s communications on both sides of the Mississippi. Just who was it who
helped Jack get over his outrage and indignation?
We won’t be part of it.
No, Jack, we will NOT stop turning on the kitchen light when the cockroaches are at work. Your feeble
attempt to shame us into shutting our mouths by crying “Unity” will only bring us back to the dismal
days of LOA 93. It didn’t work for us then and it won’t work now. The pilots are tired of back room
deals, secret meetings, ACPCs, and closed MEC meetings. But mostly the pilots are tired of the politics
and the infighting. The pilots are tired of failed leadership that has been rampant for the past several
years.
Instead of Firewall Chats from the bully pulpit, Jack, why don’t you start giving the dues-paying pilots
some answers to the following questions:
Page 2 of 4
1/19/2008
• Why was the election for this ‘Blue Ribbon Committee’ not on any Agenda? Why was it born
from the shadows?
• Just who invited the lawyers into this process? Was the effort to keep them away from DEN
merely a smoke screen?
• Who wrote this “counter-proposal” to the process? Where is it, and what exactly is it a
counter-proposal to?
• Why has the de-facto Chairman of this ‘Blue Ribbon Committee’ re-commissioned the JNC in
violation of a standing MEC Resolution?
• Why have you, Jack, interfered with the stated position of this MEC and the desires of this
pilot group by interjecting your will to re-enter the JNC process, demonstrated by calling 9
special MEC Meetings during a 3 months period?
• Do you think the pilots have finally figured out who looks out for the membership first and
who looks out for the Association first?
• Who wrote the “Pledge of Allegiance to ALPA” letter which, to your chagrin, we refused to
sign? And why was it written?
• Why is the term "implement the Nicolau Award" showing up in every proposal to move
forward?
The pilots have supported this MEC all summer and fall, and the resolutions this MEC has passed. The
desire of the pilots is to continue this path, as we continued to capture our attrition and protect our
precious seniority. This pilot group has unified like never before. Only this time Jack, the pilots see the
ALPA mothership and its failed leadership for what it is. The line pilots see ALPA National as an
obstacle to their futures, not the path to a better profession. Unfortunately, this is in direct conflict with
the few who see ALPA National as a meal ticket to a better job outside of US Airways.
We have been beaten to the bottom of the barrel by the very people who claim to represent us. We may
be slow learners, but we have collectively awakened.
Your world has changed, Jack.
It’s time to honor the MEC resolutions and work to represent the will of the line pilots. Its time to stop
the back room deals, the secret meetings, the closed meetings and the political backstabbing. It’s time to
start working for the line pilot of US Airways. It is happening with, or without you, Jack!
Follow the three prong approach, Fly safe, Family First, and SAP down for quality of life.
Page 3 of 4
1/19/2008
Fraternally,
Eric Rowe Dave Ciabattoni Jim Portale
Chairman Vice Chairman Secretary/Treasurer
603-235-5045 610-627-5896 609-709-9515
councl41@worldpath.net
ciaalpa@comcast.net
compute@cybercomm.net
You can correspond with all three of us with the “contact us” link on our LEC website at:
http://crewroom.alpa.org/aaa041lec .
------------------------------
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Page 4 of 4
1/19/2008

 

[traderjake]

You guys are going to be shccked by the bid results, and the next one will be even better. Wait till you see how many captain upgrades there are. The gates just opened on the 65 year old guys.

You can quit begging the West to come off the Nicolau Award so you can get a pay raise, it ain't going to happen.

 

[traderjake]

Karma, D.E.

Karma.

Enjoy your holiday.

Karma, you should be very afraid.

Santa is making a list and he doesn't like people who lie and cheat.

 

[prechilill]

Absent a merger you'll retire on this POS contract.

So true.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

I know I missed a lot of names who started USAPA. Eric Rowe and Jim Portale and many more. The following is an update before the Herndon road trip;;;

William S
From: aaa041-fastread@ames.alpa.org
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 6:53 AM
To: aaa041-fastread; aaa041-fastread
Subject: 41 Update 01-20-08
Page 1 of 4
1/20/2008
Update for January 20, 2008
Herndon II
Or
See How They Run…a meeting
Hey! It’s NOT a meeting!
As you all know we, Dave, Jim and I are loathe to comment on other Council’s business. But sometimes
events just overcome our ability to refrain! Recent events in Charlotte come to mind.
Marshall, Lance and Lyle not only happen to be sitting on “ground zero,” if you will, of ALPA survival;
they are also out of ideas on just what to say in the Association’s defense in the face of the enactment of
the Nicolau Award.
Captain Stephan has told your Council Chairman that it was Lance’s idea to bring in the ALPA heavy
hitters for a little meeting in CLT to help the Charlotte’s reps explain why they should support ALPA in
the representative election which has not yet been called...maybe ALPA knows something, eh? Well,
Jack didn’t exactly call it a meeting. You see, there’s a little constitutional problem with that. It seems as
though almost a couple hundred pilots have petitioned for the recall of the CLT reps to be added to the
next CLT meeting which creates a problem for the boys down there. You see, by constitution, only the
President of the Association or the Council Chair can call an LEC meeting. If a “special” LEC meeting
is called it must be preceded by a “regular” LEC meeting. This is a constitutional requirement in order
that the pilots’ business gets done and NOT the business of special interest groups within the
Association. So there will be no CLT LEC meeting in CLT the day of the next CLT LEC ALPA
National meeting. Dave and I would be willing to call it a Special Council #41 meeting if that would
give the CLT reps cover.
Herndon II-----Minus the Bus Ride
Many within the Association and your MEC, along with the CLT representatives believe that enough
time has passed since May for your wounds to heal from the announcement of the Nicolau Award. Now
may be in a more vulnerable financial position to sign onto Donn Butkovic’s plan to fix the Nicolau
Award with some money. Jack Stephan is hoping the movie that Marty Bell took of him in Herndon
will never be broadcast on U-Tube----Hey Jack, it’s the only one Marty’s got that can be shown in
mixed company, so what’s your problem? Eh? That fist in the air thingy about never, never sucking up
to Nicolau is ca-ca!
Million Dollar Rode Show
Yes! It’s a R-O-D-E show. This will be proof positive of just how hard a pilot group can be ridden by a
million dollar team of attorneys and have them still swallow the Nicolau Award. You are the ridden! In
addition to the crack ALPA legal staff, head of legal, head of representation (I’m not kidding), will be
about $600,000.00 worth of ALPA communications folks…all there to explain to you why after Prater
handed over Nicolau to Parker they are still the “best money can buy,” as they said in their latest flyer emailed
to you at YOUR expense.
Special Attraction….
A Re-Enactment
Those of you not MEC insiders and especially you Philly First Officers will love the tearful reenactment
of Lyle Newman’s teary speech to Prater given in DCA this past fall telling Prater how, if he
passed the list to the company and the age rule changed that Lyle Newman would become a Thirty-Six
Year First Officer on this property. Yep, hopefully you’ll see it live. This is an emotionally draining
performance - so we cannot be assured there will be more than one performance. It will be followed by
an explanation of why less than two weeks later he signed onto Pollock’s Posse, the ACPC group. It’s
quite a story.
BE THERE
CLT
JANUARY 22
HERNDON II
OR
SMACKDOWN IN CHARLOTTE
ALL ARE WELCOME
WELL ALMOST!
________________________________________________________________
OOOPS!
Page 2 of 4
1/20/2008
WE’RE UNINVITED
This just in…
Council 90 UPDATE
Monday, January 14, 2008
Fellow Pilots,
We have invited representatives of ALPA to come to CLT to discuss legal and collective bargaining
issues raised by our pilots and by USAPA. We feel obligated to support the pilots of USAirways by
providing you with as much information as possible regardless of which organization you support.
We have seen some emails that would rather turn your informational opportunity into a “rally” and
take the “opportunity to express to ALPA national our displeasure with the representation we have
been receiving from ALPA National” and “to kick ALPA off the property.”
This undignified approach to gathering information does a disservice to all of us who will be affected in
a representation election. We should make our decision on the basis of solid information rather than
emotions.
USAPA has held meetings in CLT and PHL in which ALPA members attended without any disruption.
We support our member’s right to speak directly with those who have knowledge of circumstances
and events in our history. We want you to be able to get answers to any questions you may have. We
have chosen the particular meeting space in CLT because it is more casual and will allow you to hold
individual conversations with the folks in attendance. If you don’t want more information, or have
already made up your mind, there is no need to stop by.
We will meet in the conference room behind the Business Center in the center of the food court on
the main floor. The meeting will be on January 22nd, from 10:00 am until 4:00 pm. We will be there to
introduce you to the invitees. We look forward to seeing you.
Fraternally,
Marshall Rogers Lance Svendsen Lyle Newman , 36 YEAR F/O, ACPC Guy,
Bill’s Buddy
Page 3 of 4
1/20/2008
AND SO DO WE!
FORGET WHAT THESE GUYS SAY
WE’LL SEE YOU THERE
GET RESTED
THEY AIN’T WORN US OUT YET!
THEY AIN’T GONNA!
Follow the three prong approach, Fly safe, Family First, and SAP down for quality of life.
Fraternally,
Eric Rowe Dave Ciabattoni Jim Portale
Chairman Vice Chairman Secretary/Treasurer
603-235-5045 610-627-5896 609-709-9515
councl41@worldpath.net
ciaalpa@comcast.net
compute@cybercomm.net
You can correspond with all three of us with the “contact us” link on our LEC website at:
http://crewroom.alpa.org/aaa041lec .
------------------------------

GREAT POST!