Results are out: F/A seniority Intergration team

[Dignity]

I think because they were already both ALPA members. We have the added issue of a vote on whether to have representation or not. That's the difference as I understand it.

good points.

but it was resolved..

they put their personal views aside and focused on protecting their best interest working together..for
a timely resolution enjoying immediate benefits to the merger while seniority meetings commensed, and arbitration concluded it all..(all done prior to the SOC)

what is preventing our group from moving forward today?

an election.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

So whats the (excuse) delay in voting now? :down:

Can we PLEASE move on from this question?! It has been answered ad nauseum.

once again:
***BECAUSE THEY ARE WAITING FOR PRES OBAMA TO REPLACE READ VAN DE WATER OF THE NMB***
It is simply strategy. You can find fault with that strategy if you so desire but it is what it is.

 

[dapoes]

Can we PLEASE move on from this question?! It has been answered ad nauseum.

once again:
***BECAUSE THEY ARE WAITING FOR PRES OBAMA TO REPLACE READ VAN DE WATER OF THE NMB***
It is simply strategy. You can find fault with that strategy if you so desire but it is what it is.

Party-pooper 😛

 

[jalbalpa]

Luke, if McCain would have won the campaign would have taken a certain approach. Such as getting congress to amend the RLA to state "a majority is defined as a majority of those casting a ballot". You can't use the same offense against all teams.

The 2,000 current Delta and Northwest flight attendants involved with the campaign have decided that this strategy will work best to ensure our collective bargaining future.

 

[Dignity]

***BECAUSE THEY ARE WAITING FOR PRES OBAMA TO REPLACE READ VAN DE WATER OF THE NMB***

this is just a general comment..

sometimes it seems people are focusing on just one person.. when in fact they should be directing their attention to who really matters...the Flight Attendants.

some are giving that woman so much power..

how is replacing one person going to actually change someone's mind or make them actually participate in an election?

 

[dapoes]

this is just a general comment..

sometimes it seems people are focusing on just one person.. when in fact they should be directing their attention to who really matters...the Flight Attendants.

some are giving that woman so much power..

how is replacing one person going to actually change someone's mind or make them actually participate in an election?

Its an act of desperation.

 

[Dignity]

if McCain would have won the campaign would have taken a certain approach. Such as getting congress to amend the RLA to state "a majority is defined as a majority of those casting a ballot". You can't use the same offense against all teams.

should they not be trying to change that as well..regardless? now this is for real...if some actually tried to wait for Congress to actually ammend the RLA, while it is absolutely possible, expect to wait a while...

 

[Dignity]

Its an act of desperation.

Dapoes,
would replacing a member on the NMB cause you...to change your mind?

I would more than likely think no.

while I completely realize its in the best interest overall (considering the new administration in place) regarding an appointment.. that does not however.. actually cause someone to automatically rethink their views...or participate in an election..(is really all my point was..)

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Party-pooper 😛

Forget party. They are having a RAVE over at No Way AFA; I'm sure you know your way there....but in case you forgot, just follow the red-widget road, Dorothy. 🙂

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

this is just a general comment..

sometimes it seems people are focusing on just one person.. when in fact they should be directing their attention to who really matters...the Flight Attendants.

some are giving that woman so much power..

how is replacing one person going to actually change someone's mind or make them actually participate in an election?

It's not just a general comment Dig. AFA has sent out in their emailers that they have been lobbying the Obama Admin. and Congress to appoint her replacement in a timely manner.
Again, you may not agree with their strategy, but this is what those running the campaign think is important. Now, it is MY opinion that this is being done again, as a strategy, because they believe that once there are 2 Democrats on the Board (Obama being a Dem will appt. a Dem), they will rule more in favor with labor rather than management. I believe this is because they are expecting a very close election and if this is indeed the case, there will most likely be challenges brought before the NMB. It only makes sense that you'd want a labor-friendly replacement.
My problem, and maybe I don't understand how long it takes as I am not involved, is that there is a perception problem of "stalling" which could, I say could, come back to thwart the very thing that they are trying to accomplish.

 

[Dignity]

It's not just a general comment Dig. AFA has sent out in their emailers that they have been lobbying the Obama Admin. and Congress to appoint her replacement in a timely manner.
Again, you may not agree with their strategy

I cannot agree or actually disagree with a 'strategy' that has not been brought to my attention as fact.

Now I can absolutely have an idea what may be happening but that does not mean that is actually the case..

I am still under the impression they are awaiting an SOC and not an actual appointment.. it appears some view that simply as the case based on an opinion on this forum.

Now, it is MY opinion that this is being done again, as a strategy, because they believe that once there are 2 Democrats on the Board (Obama being a Dem will appt. a Dem), they will rule more in favor with labor rather than management.

I agree that is a personal opinion

I believe this is because they are expecting a very close election and if this is indeed the case, there will most likely be challenges brought before the NMB. It only makes sense that you'd want a labor-friendly replacement.

I agree this election will be very close, ultimately it will probably be within a few hundred of those who chose to participate voting..(either way)

My problem, and maybe I don't understand how long it takes as I am not involved, is that there is a perception problem of "stalling" which could, I say could, come back to thwart the very thing that they are trying to accomplish.

I feel that is going to be a real issue...in not a good way regarding these perceptions.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

I cannot agree or actually disagree with a 'strategy' that has not been brought to my attention as fact.

Now I can absolutely have an idea what may be happening but that does not mean that is actually the case..

I am still under the impression they are awaiting an SOC and not an actual appointment.. it appears some view that simply as the case based on an opinion on this forum.

I agree that is a personal opinion


I agree this election will be very close, ultimately it will probably be within a few hundred of those who chose to participate voting..(either way)

I feel that is going to be a real issue...in not a good way regarding these perceptions.

Dignity,
Here is a portion of a copy of an emailer to NW f/a's. Did you receive this one?

Flight Attendants representing Delta and Northwest Airlines were on Capitol Hill this week. Members of our Government Affairs Committee and the MEC met with Congressional officials of both Houses in order to urge the Obama Administration to appoint a worker-friendly National Mediation Board (NMB) as soon as possible. Visits to the Hill will continue next week in an effort to bring attention to the urgency of these appointments. With a truly worker-friendly NMB in place we can ensure a fair election when the time comes for the combined workgroup to make a decision about our collective future. It is imperative that you, the constituent, support our efforts.

Also, I don't think AFA is waiting for a SOC. That is another year away. They are merely saying "what's the rush?" when we can not fly together until the SOC has been issued.

 

[Dignity]

Dignity,
Here is a portion of a copy of an emailer to NW f/a's. Did you receive this one?

Flight Attendants representing Delta and Northwest Airlines were on Capitol Hill this week. Members of our Government Affairs Committee and the MEC met with Congressional officials of both Houses in order to urge the Obama Administration to appoint a worker-friendly National Mediation Board (NMB) as soon as possible. Visits to the Hill will continue next week in an effort to bring attention to the urgency of these appointments. With a truly worker-friendly NMB in place we can ensure a fair election when the time comes for the combined workgroup to make a decision about our collective future. It is imperative that you, the constituent, support our efforts.

Also, I don't think AFA is waiting for a SOC. That is another year away. They are merely saying "what's the rush?" when we can not fly together until the SOC has been issued.

I do recall reading that article..

again to me, it appears the views of a small group of people who actually feel that is necessary.. they may choose to do what they feel is in our best interest however, does not necessarily mean I actually agree or feel that is the actual case. The Flight Attendant will ultimately decide by actively participating in the voting process regardless who is appointed.

this is a democracy (sometimes it doesn't feel that way), in a democracy people will voice their concerns, views and opinions. I do not agree with every issue that is placed in front of me, and certainly will vote accordingly but many issues.. I do...in a way..everyone agreeing with each other sometimes isnt a good thing either..

there are some issues I absolutely find imperative and the majority feels the same way, there are some issues that is not always going to be the same way. I do not agree with a filing a lawsuit over seniority integration as one example.

being effective is absolutely necessary or at least showing that to those who are not familiar with the process.. to some it appears they are awaiting an advantage..and that may just work against them.

 

[BABABOOY]

Can we PLEASE move on from this question?! It has been answered ad nauseum.

once again:
***BECAUSE THEY ARE WAITING FOR PRES OBAMA TO REPLACE READ VAN DE WATER OF THE NMB***
It is simply strategy. You can find fault with that strategy if you so desire but it is what it is.

J-Alpa
call me confused, but how is it, that this one women, cause the AFA to loose the
last election?

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

I do recall reading that article..

again to me, it appears the views of a small group of people who actually feel that is necessary.. they may choose to do what they feel is in our best interest however, does not necessarily mean I actually agree or feel that is the actual case. The Flight Attendant will ultimately decide by actively participating in the voting process regardless who is appointed.

this is a democracy (sometimes it doesn't feel that way), in a democracy people will voice their concerns, views and opinions. I do not agree with every issue that is placed in front of me, and certainly will vote accordingly but many issues.. I do...in a way..everyone agreeing with each other sometimes isnt a good thing either..

there are some issues I absolutely find imperative and the majority feels the same way, there are some issues that is not always going to be the same way. I do not agree with a filing a lawsuit over seniority integration as one example.

being effective is absolutely necessary or at least showing that to those who are not familiar with the process.. to some it appears they are awaiting an advantage..and that may just work against them.

Dignity,
Again, I am not disputing any of those things you're saying about agreeing with everything the leadership team of AFA decides.
But what I hear you saying, and maybe I'm wrong, is that it is an OPINION that AFA Leadership is waiting for the new Pres. appt to the NMB. THAT is NOT an opinion. THAT is called a fact.
It may not be their only strategy but it is one of their strategies and they have clearly stated it.
Now..it becomes an OPINION if I were to say "that's a great thing that they're waiting." But it doesn't dissolve the fact that indeed, it is one of the things they are waiting on.
Are we clear now on the difference between opinion and fact and opinions of facts?
The Bush Admin. was so clever in trying to tie everything to opinion and I remember on one of the talking head shows, a Dem strategist saying "there are opinions and there are facts; then there are opinions of facts." This is what I'm talking about.