U.S Pilot Labor Thread, 8/10 - 8/17

[machtuck]

It does not have any bearing on your point?

I thought that your point was harassment in the work place. I did not mention AWAPPA, USAPA, ALPA, none of the players, you did. This is a company thing. Unless you think that the dictator Bradford now has the power to fire employees.

My point is that your east guys are not pure as the driven snow. And the harassment is also coming from the east. Talk about delicate sensibilities. You immediately want this guys fired. Thin skin I would say.

Actually, I guess it does have some bearing on my point. I'd say that this little copilot wasn't even man enough to say what he felt face to face, he said it over his shoulder as he scurried by...
And no, Mr. Bradford doesn't fire anybody, the company does..(and will, I bet) for this exact type of thing.

Anybody doing it on either side should be dealt with by the company.

(thats what you should have said)

What is fatiguing is how many of you deflect any issue by doing exactly what you did in your reply.

"whose poop"
"whose doll"
"whose phone calls"

"she did it to me..."

some kinda side-show circus act run by children.

 

[prechilill]

What is fatiguing is how many of you deflect any issue by doing exactly what you did in your reply.

So, who were the west perpetrators of your imagined injustices? Just give us their P numbers, please.

OH, that is right, you don't know anything at all- but blaming the west fits your fantasy of one day trumping the west pilot group on something, anything. Let's look at what has transpired in the real world: You can't win in arbitration, your court cases are losers and USAPA is floundering. And now a couple of you easties are getting so bent out of shape as evidenced by your heightened vitriole and rhetortic around here that you are really grasping at straws to keep what little momentum you have left now that the anger of nicolau and phony injustices by ALPA are fading away. Do you want to know why things don't work out for you? Because like your whole USAPA misadventure, your grounding principles are based on lies and misconceptions to make your battered emotional inner child feel better. You don't live in reality. Face it, you guys on the east have nothing, both inside and outside of your airline. And that is why USAPA has done nothing in the past four months. It is pretty much game over for you guys. You have accomplished nothing because you have nothing- no plan, no case against the west, no legal foundation to retract previous legal agreements and you certainly don't have good legal counsel.
Take care.

 

[nycbusdriver]

So, who were the west perpetrators of your imagined injustices? Just give us their P numbers, please.

You guys keep asking for this information, but it's not something that's yours to have. Nor is it mine.

That's the point of going to court. To find out exactly the names of who did exactly what. This is information the veracity of which can only be vetted by the court. If it's real, the court will find out. If it's a USAPA pipe dream as you contend, the court will find out.

None of us, east or west, who are posting here are privy to the details of these allegations. This is a matter for the court and the principals involved in the case...not a bunch of USAviation pontificators.

So...please stop asking. USAPA's case will come out in court and at that time, when it becomes public record, you and I will know just what is going on here.

 

[hp_fa]

That's the point of going to court. To find out exactly the names of who did exactly what. This is information the veracity of which can only be vetted by the court. If it's real, the court will find out. If it's a USAPA pipe dream as you contend, the court will find out.

Huh?

Courts are not intended to identify people who may have done wrong and may be subject to some form of penalty. There has to be some identifiable wrongdoer before the case can launch, or else it should not be filed. That said, sure John Does are listed in a Complaint so that if discovery identifies additional alleged wrongdoers the Complaint can be amended to include them, but you need a starting point of an identified person or persons to start the process.

Courts frown on fishing expeditions.

 

[cleardirect]

You guys keep asking for this information, but it's not something that's yours to have. Nor is it mine.

That's the point of going to court. To find out exactly the names of who did exactly what. This is information the veracity of which can only be vetted by the court. If it's real, the court will find out. If it's a USAPA pipe dream as you contend, the court will find out.

None of us, east or west, who are posting here are privy to the details of these allegations. This is a matter for the court and the principals involved in the case...not a bunch of USAviation pontificators.

So...please stop asking. USAPA's case will come out in court and at that time, when it becomes public record, you and I will know just what is going on here.

Wrong, wrong, wrong!

I think that I found your and USAPA’s failure. The court room is NOT the place to do an investigation. The court room is the last place you end up after the investigation. After the facts have been researched and the case put together.

Do you not watch TV crime dramas? The cops do all of the work figure out if a crime has been committed, then turn it over the lawyers. Ever heard the term a lawyer should never ask a question in court that he does not know the answer to?

So the only conclusion that I can come up with by your statement is that USAPA has no information or evidence of any crime or criminal activity. It is a pure fishing trip and intimidation tactic.

Just to remind you. A judge did look at USAPA’s so call evidence and threw your case out of court with prejudice. So as you said USAPA’s case was and is a “pipe dream“.

None of us, east or west, who are posting here are privy to the details of these allegations. This is a matter for the court and the principals involved in the case...not a bunch of USAviation pontificators.

I agree with you. So every time one of you east guys brings up one of your fantasy charges or accusations you look foolish. So if you don’t mind please talk about facts that are known and stop flinging around mere accusations of things nobody knows about. You will stop asking for details when you stop false accusations without evidence.

 

[FL430]

Huh?

Courts are not intended to identify people who may have done wrong and may be subject to some form of penalty. There has to be some identifiable wrongdoer before the case can launch, or else it should not be filed. That said, sure John Does are listed in a Complaint so that if discovery identifies additional alleged wrongdoers the Complaint can be amended to include them, but you need a starting point of an identified person or persons to start the process.

Courts frown on fishing expeditions.

Honey, last time I checked fish dont use telephones, e-mail, or poop in envelopes.

 

[hp_fa]

Honey, last time I checked fish dont use telephones, e-mail, or poop in envelopes.

Wow, using a pejorative already.

 

[machtuck]

So, who were the west perpetrators of your imagined injustices? Just give us their P numbers, please.

OH, that is right, you don't know anything at all- but blaming the west fits your fantasy of one day trumping the west pilot group on something, anything. Let's look at what has transpired in the real world: You can't win in arbitration, your court cases are losers and USAPA is floundering. And now a couple of you easties are getting so bent out of shape as evidenced by your heightened vitriole and rhetortic around here that you are really grasping at straws to keep what little momentum you have left now that the anger of nicolau and phony injustices by ALPA are fading away. Do you want to know why things don't work out for you? Because like your whole USAPA misadventure, your grounding principles are based on lies and misconceptions to make your battered emotional inner child feel better. You don't live in reality. Face it, you guys on the east have nothing, both inside and outside of your airline. And that is why USAPA has done nothing in the past four months. It is pretty much game over for you guys. You have accomplished nothing because you have nothing- no plan, no case against the west, no legal foundation to retract previous legal agreements and you certainly don't have good legal counsel.
Take care.

What a complete patch of sod...

Listen, maybe you think you belong in the mental health industry...(and maybe you do.)
If I want your "head" advice, I'll ask.

As to "getting P numbers"...if a stunt gets pulled on me in PHX like what I described about this other crew...junior won't be able to outrun me...and I'll get the P number...guaranteed.

You act as though all these things (example above) are imaginary. In fact, you and yours almost gloat over the "dine and dash" style of activities...

"hit, and run"...hide your badge....etc etc...

why don't some of your "moreso endowed with integrity" out west stand up and identify the perpetrators...otherwise, you'll all get grouped together as you do now.

meanwhile, time ticks away....and your band of "thugs" continues with your apparent blessings.

 

[EastUS]

Take care.

You too. I'll go so far as to suggest that you not only take care, but seek out some professional care. You might want to someday revise your self-ascribed knowledge of, but fully delusional notions of what constitutes "reality". The last time you were running on about "reality" as you imagine it, was to support your blatantly fraudulant "war hero"..who has since mysteriously dropped from these boards, and is no longer loudly braying out the "INTEGRITY MATTERS" utter BS. West notions of "reality" are right up there with their fantasies of "INTEGRITY", and prove equally ridiculous when tested. If you ever want ANY respect out west, stop acting the part of your "inner child".

 

[cleardirect]

Honey, last time I checked fish dont use telephones, e-mail, or poop in envelopes.

Accusations only.

Facts:

East pilot failed to follow SOP shot an airplane and was terminated.

East pilot racing a west airplane to the gate ran off the taxiway and buried his plane in the mud.

East pilots agreed to final and binding arbitration now trying to renege on that agreement.

New CBA sued individuals they pretend to represent for now over 357 million dollars.

 

[SegmentKing]

Fact:

Every other USAirways union has been able to merge using DOH.

 

[EastUS]

East pilots agreed to final and binding arbitration now trying to renege on that agreement.

Fact: By popular vote; Alpa no longer exists, and St Nic isn't coming to town.

Fact: Nothing you say, nor any denial of jumpseats, or any other pathetically childish behaviors out there will effect any change to the above.

Fact: A legally elected Union is in place that represents the entire pilot group.

Fact: The west's beliefs and behaviors are a great source of comfort to mangagement, and they're laughing themselvess sick from having a cadre of easilly manipulated stooges out west. "Here Boy!, Here Boy!...Keep up your Union sabotage in futile dreams of your Nic!...That's a good, good little Boy!...now Jump even higher!...That's good!....Now...run around in circles and keep barking at those Easties for Daddy Doug!!" "Aww..that's so very precious..What a good little Boy...here's a treat for you..You can even have your callsign biscuit now"..."There...good Boy..you're happy now. Don't think of those 175 that we're taking to the pound as proof of how much we really care about you and your Nic"..."Just be a good little Boy and keep barking at those easties". .Pathetic.

SegmentKing: "Fact:
Every other USAirways union has been able to merge using DOH." Doesn't matter sir....You have to realize that these are very "Special" people in the west pilot group that are owed free rides over any and all others in life....Just ask them. 😉

 

[cleardirect]

Yes the election was won by the majority of the east pilots. But do not fool yourself into thinking that USAPA in any way represents the west interests.

Yes, ALPA is no longer the CBA for this property at the moment. But USAPA inherited ALL agreements. Not just the ones they /you like. Nicolau is one of those agreements that USAPA inherited.

All along USAPA has said that they can get rid of Nicolau by negotiating a new seniority list section 22. That however implies two parties to that bargain. What makes you think that the company will negotiate a DOH list? What if the company says We agreed to the Nicolau that is our position. Then what is USAPA’s plan? They can not impose DOH. So Nicolau is in full force.

If a DOH list is such a slam dunk why has USAPA not presented it? What are they waiting for??? Is there a problem?

Have you thought about the events of the past week? Doug goes to CLT and is insulted by USAPA leadership. Accused of stealing $35 million and furloughing pilots for a bargaining position. Within a week he implements the cactus call sign. All we had been hearing was that it would be a third different call sign. Next USAPA is crying about only 6 days of talks in the next 60 days. Doug just spanked your boys and sent them to the corner.

Where is that quick contract that USAPA promised? With the delay when exactly do you think they will present a TA? Only six days that puts us into October. You know nothing gets done in Nov Dec because of the holidays. Now we are into Jan 2009 already. We all know USAPA is unreasonable in their demands. Doug has signaled that the only improvements will be west pay parity no DOH. How long will USAPA hold a bad bargaining position? July 2009, December 2009 July 2010? USAPA will be lucky to get anywhere near a TA in less than a year from taking over April 2009. Without DOH according to your C &BL they can not even present a contract that is not DOH. Company will not negotiate DOH. What then? How long can USAPA put off the east membership from a pay raise and work rule improvements?

As far as jumping for Doug, no but I will bet on Doug before USAPA. But speaking of jumping when someone yells. The would be all of you east “good unionâ€￾ pilots jumping for the self appointed dictator Bradford. Blind following is cult like, think man think for yourself.

 

[machtuck]

Accusations only.

Facts:

East pilot failed to follow SOP shot an airplane and was terminated.

East pilot racing a west airplane to the gate ran off the taxiway and buried his plane in the mud.

East pilots agreed to final and binding arbitration now trying to renege on that agreement.

New CBA sued individuals they pretend to represent for now over 357 million dollars.

Lets talk about facts:

Fact: USAPA has telephony records indicating hundreds and hundreds of phone calls from numbers registered to named individuals involved with or in conspiracy with AWAPPA. None of those calls resulted in any recorded message other than a few threats to the union or individual.

Fact: The US Postal Service has recorded the submission of human feces in envelopes earmarked for USAPA and membership applications...not just USAPA...the Post Office.

Fact: One of your west copilot types verbally accosted and initiated a confrontation with an East crew on Aug 14th at 1100 PHX local time.

Fact: The west pilots have ignored and summarily refused to join or pay maintenance fees for their NMB authorized bargaining agent.

Fact: The wests resolve to be shifty, vague, and deflective about their own behavior will not stop the business of the company or the union moving forward....apparently without you.

 

[EastUS]

What you makes you think that the company will negotiate a DOH list?

You're joking I assume....aren't you? What possible reasons do they honestly have for even caring at all about what the seniority list is? They must deal with the actual Union, as has been repeatedly said by them. The Union's Charter predicates DOH. Any contract vote will be decided by the majority of voting Union members. Are we done now?

cleardirect: "Have you thought about the events of the past week? Doug goes to CLT and is insulted by USAPA leadership. Accused of stealing $35 million and furloughing pilots for a bargaining position. Within a week he implements the cactus call sign. All we had been hearing was that it would be a third different call sign. Next USAPA is crying about only 6 days of talks in the next 60 days. Doug just spanked your boys and sent them to the corner."

And...you've been granted a "Special little treat=the callsign biscuit", (which was most likely done with more thought towards hopefully irritating the Union than keeping your "side' pleased in any case). But Hey!..Wow!..."Doug" absolutely just LOVES you all out west....No need to fret over furloughs or anything then, and St Nic must be coming down the chimney any moment now! Unbelievable, if I wasn't watching the "thinking" in action. Mr Parker's got no immediate incentive that I'm aware of, to see a fast resolution towards a single contract. I've no doubts that managemant's very unhappy with facing a non-submissive outfit, rather than a joke of a "union" like alpa was/is. This will naturally result in them trying to "push back". That you people are clearly such eager cheerleaders for the triumph of managment at any level's both misguided..and well..frankly insane. You've got 175 set for furlough...and you're all aglow over a call sign? Man!..Talk about children that are easilly pleased. I'm reminded of Mel Brooks/GOV in Blazing Saddles handing out paddle ball sets "in lieu of pay".

Keep running around in circles and barking at the easties if it amuses you to do so. They do so love that in the sandcastle, and it serves management's purposes in splendid fashion.

"Doug goes to CLT and is insulted by USAPA leadership." OK...where would you suggest kissing him in any future encounters? "Accused of stealing $35 million and furloughing pilots for a bargaining position." Yes. What's your point?