U.S Pilot Labor Thread, 8/10 - 8/17

[machtuck]

Indeed. For someone who tries to convince everyone how confident he/she is in the inevitable outcome of things...a lot of time is spent howling at the moon.

Hilarious.

 

[cleardirect]

No answer in your response, again. Oh well. I keep trying. Here I will list them to make it easy.

What makes you think that the company will negotiate a DOH list?

What if the company says We agreed to the Nicolau that is our position. Then what is USAPA’s plan?

If a DOH list is such a slam dunk why has USAPA not presented it?

What are they waiting for??? Is there a problem?

Where is that quick contract that USAPA promised?

How long will USAPA hold a bad bargaining position?

How long can USAPA put off the east membership from a pay raise and work rule improvements?


Contrary to your view of the world USAPA does not control it. Just because USAPA has DOH in the charter big fat deal. An association could put they demand the highest pay in the industry in every contract they negotiate. It is not binding on the company. Just like DOH is not binding on the company.

Yes the contract will be voted on by the members. It is yet to be decided if that is a separate or tyranny of the majority vote.

Why would the company care what seniority list they used? I know that you can not be that obtuse. First the lawyers. The company agreed to use a list brought to them under the transition agreement. That list is the Nicolau award. To go back on that agreement has consequences. The company also knows the fire storm that will occur if you try to staple 80% of the west below an east furlough.

Are we done yet?

 

[machtuck]

I don't know...the howling is deafening..

it hasn't worked for you with Parker or Kirby...has it?

uh...yep, we're done.

When you get your wishes from them (tried ...no joy yet)..come back and ask again.

 

[cleardirect]

Lets talk about facts:

Fact: USAPA has telephony records indicating hundreds and hundreds of phone calls from numbers registered to named individuals involved with or in conspiracy with AWAPPA. None of those calls resulted in any recorded message other than a few threats to the union or individual.

Well OK half truth. The phone records are the only evidence in USAPA’s entire complaint. Could you please quote the law or the rule on how many times someone can call a public number before it becomes â€￾illegalâ€￾ Is it 10, 20, 100, 500 times? Is there a legal limit on the number of calls? No! Better check your “FACTSâ€￾ The judge threw out your conspiracy case out with prejudice. There is/was no conspiracy. Try to keep up.

Fact: The US Postal Service has recorded the submission of human feces in envelopes earmarked for USAPA and membership applications...not just USAPA...the Post Office.

The alleged feces never reached the USAPA office so no harm was done. If the post office received it then they were the ones that might be able to claim damages. Why have they not brought charges? Any names yet? Nope! Only accusations

Fact: One of your west copilot types verbally accosted and initiated a confrontation with an East crew on Aug 14th at 1100 PHX local time.

Maybe. Fact an east pilot PHYSICALLY accosted a gate agent in PHX. Bricks, glass houses.

Fact: The west pilots have ignored and summarily refused to join or pay maintenance fees for their NMB authorized bargaining agent.

Remind me. What date does anyone have until they are required to pay union dues or agency shop by? If you don’t know it is August 18, 2008. So until Monday no one has done anything wrong or had any duty to pay. Do you always pay bills that you do not owe.

Fact: The wests resolve to be shifty, vague, and deflective about their own behavior will not stop the business of the company or the union moving forward....apparently without you.

Interesting choice of words, your characterization. How exactly is the west stopping the business of the company? We are coming to work and pushing on time. Moving passenger safely to their destination. Taxing single engine and saving fuel. How about your side? How’s that fuel saving going? Still taxing with the APU and both engines? My understanding is Doug got the break out numbers this week. What to take a guess at his reaction?

Stopping the F/O club yep. As long as you want DOH and a staple of 80%. Going to do everything that I can to legally stop that.

 

[machtuck]

pissing up a rope, dude...pissing up a rope.

Further, using your logic, why don't you dial 911 about 700 times over this weekend and hang up...or leave some clever message...

legal? or not legal.

actionable by the PD and a judge, or no?
It's called harrassment....and interference with the legally recognized unions business can leave you liable...it's just the way it is...tell your schtick about 10,20,50 calls to the judge.

doing the same to the official airline safety hotline is akin to pulling fire handles in movie houses and saying prove it.

Again with the challenges, deflections, and swerves around the behavior of your own....

It's gonna stop, or your gonna pay.

Your task is monumental, your perspective is theatrical...and your success is questionable.

but you keep it up.

 

[Barberpole]

You're joking I assume....aren't you? What possible reasons do they honestly have for even caring at all about what the seniority list is? They must deal with the actual Union, as has been repeatedly said by them. The Union's Charter predicates DOH. Any contract vote will be decided by the majority of voting Union members. Are we done now?

question for you Eastus. According to your logic the west could wait till enough easties retire thus giving the west the majority. Then we could just have you stapled through the collective bargaining process. Do you see any problems with that strategy? It wouldn't be a DFR issue if we just changed the charter to state that all westies will have super seniority. Majority rules right?

 

[EastUS]

No answer in your response, again. Oh well. I keep trying. Here I will list them to make it easy.

What makes you think that the company will negotiate a DOH list?

You evidently don't bother reading anything prior to continued barking. I'll "make it easy for you" yet again:

You're joking I assume....aren't you? What possible reasons do they honestly have for even caring at all about what the seniority list is? They must deal with the actual Union, as has been repeatedly said by them. The Union's Charter predicates DOH. Any contract vote will be decided by the majority of voting Union members. Are we done now?

 

[EastUS]

question for you Eastus. According to your logic the west could wait till enough easties retire thus giving the west the majority. Then we could just have you stapled through the collective bargaining process. Do you see any problems with that strategy? It wouldn't be a DFR issue if we just changed the charter to state that all westies will have super seniority. Majority rules right?

"According to your logic the west could wait till enough easties retire thus giving the west the majority." Yep. Knock yourselves out.

"Then we could just have you stapled through the collective bargaining process." Ummm..exactly how do you go about stapling anyone that's retired and has left the building?

"Do you see any problems with that strategy?" Ummm...Not by west "logic".

The good part inherent in your latest "strategy" here is that, by the time sufficent, evil easties have gone...you might have finally been around long enough to actually understand the value of years worked, and possibly..even the very concept of seniority itself. Well..you'll probably never actually understand the true concept of seniority..but one can always hope 😉

 

[machtuck]

I continue to be shown new and ever-increasing depths by which these west guys sell the "give it to us NOW" mentality.

Super-seniority NOW!!!!


I was going to the comedy club out here in LA tonight, now I don't need to.

 

[EastUS]

Maybe. Fact an east pilot PHYSICALLY accosted a gate agent in PHX. Bricks, glass houses.

When and how did this happen? Any incidents of abusive behavior should be investigated and the wrong doers held fully accountable. This isn't some childish BS like you seem to think, involving "Bricks, glass house". Unprofessional abuses of coworkers is very serious business, and must be dealt with.

 

[EastUS]

I continue to be shown new and ever-increasing depths by which these west guys sell the "give it to us NOW" mentality.

Super-seniority NOW!!!!


I was going to the comedy club out here in LA tonight, now I don't need to.

Yeah...I've never seen anything quite like it my life. Here's a bunch of supposedly "professional adults" conducting themselves akin to the worst aspects of self-obsessed, teenaged, "It's ALL about MEEE!" behavior, without the least thought towards the worth of ANY other human beings whatsoever. "My Mommy was AWA so I'm better than you!...and I think I'm really, really Special!!". I started out thinking that NO group of people could truly be this screwed up, and that we all just needed to talk things out. After a year's worth of "Ho Ho Ho! St Nic is coming to town!"..."Booyooshaka!"..."I want the captain seat..and most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it"....Not to mention "There I was..saving hundreds of troops on the ground in my "Gray jet"..in a war tour purely of my own imaginings".....Well... I now fully and truly understand what the psychiatric diagnosis of Arrested Development really means.

We can't all have been axe murderers in previous lives...and we didn't adopt these kids....so I'm not at all sure what any of us ever personally did to deserve some of these people in any aspects of our lives...I guess we just got lucky 😉

 

[Ralph]

We are tiptoeing closely toward the edge of personal attacks and flamebaiting once again. We can be given time off. The sun is hot and the corn is ripe. Pickers are needed. BTW, if you've been suspended before for namecalling/flamebaiting, be aware that the penalty increases with each offense.

A word to the wise...

 

[Barberpole]

"According to your logic the west could wait till enough easties retire thus giving the west the majority." Yep. Knock yourselves out.

"Then we could just have you stapled through the collective bargaining process." Ummm..exactly how do you go about stapling anyone that's retired and has left the building?

"Do you see any problems with that strategy?" Ummm...Not by west "logic".

The good part inherent in your latest "strategy" here is that, by the time sufficent, evil easties have gone...you might have finally been around long enough to actually understand the value of years worked, and possibly..even the very concept of seniority itself. Well..you'll probably never actually understand the true concept of seniority..but one can always hope 😉

Well this strategy that I outlined is basically exactly what USAPA is trying to do to the west. Instead of abiding by the third party legally agreed to process you have hijacked the union in order to staple the majority of the west pilots through the tyranny of the majority.

But what really strikes me EASTUS is that you could apparently care less what happens to the east pilots after you retire. You don't give two cents about the younger easties, you just want yours before you have 'left the building.' I find it ironic that you complain about he west side being self serving when all you care about is yourself. I'm sure you'll respond with a personal attack or two but I could care less.

I hope you're comfortable with your contract. I don't expect you'll be seeing a new one soon.

 

[machtuck]

yawn. If you guys are so confident in your case, why don't you just drop it from these boards?
seriously.
Why the hardline/hardsell all the time?
If you think that Freunds' position is that this is a slam dunk ( obviously you haven't read his dissertation to the court from last year...but anyway..)
then just let it ride for awhile....you're GUARANTEED to win, right?

You guys keep saying it, and that we're crazy....so just sit back and enjoy your victory lap...😉

If indeed you don't think Freunds position is clear (implying you've read the duality of what you're asking....not binding, but a bargaining position vs. binding and ironclad)
then I suggest you start making some friends...'cause you're gonna need 'em on the East side.

 

[EastUS]

But what really strikes me EASTUS is that you could apparently care less what happens to the east pilots after you retire. You don't give two cents about the younger easties, you just want yours before you have 'left the building.' I find it ironic that you complain about he west side being self serving when all you care about is yourself. I'm sure you'll respond with a personal attack or two but I could care less.

Interesting. What I actually think will "really strike" even the casual reader is an alarmingly accurate glimpse into the more self-obsessed mind = "It's ALL about MEEE!...So everyone else must think the exact same way I do!!!, and so they too, think that everything's all about themselves!!". I long ago noted that I'm not among those whom the Nic would have harmed, and my concerns are for what I earnestly believe to be Right = Removal of Alpa's corrupt, insanity and the protection of east folks and Unionist principles against the selfish obsessions of such as your group. I also realize the absurdity inherent in any notions of waiting out enough east retirements so that you can have a vast majority of "It's ALL about MEEE!" sorts as a voting block. I don't even worry about that, as many may well grow up a little within that time frame, and a lot will change in any case. Your latest "strategy" just amounts to more adolescent ranting. How seriously should anyone take such?

Barberpole: "I hope you're comfortable with your contract. I don't expect you'll be seeing a new one soon." How very kind. Yet another westie taunt of "You can live on LOA93 forever!". I can only assume that this is the part where I'm supposed to surrender my principles and implode my basic belief structures, burst into tears, and hand you the seats and years worked of my juniors out east? ....Sure thing...any moment now.....There appears to be some very key elements missing from west perceptions. Alpa's toast. USAPA's established with DOH as a core and essential element of it's construction. The majority vote is held by those that believe in DOH as an essential principle. You're not going to change anyone's mind on any of that out here. You may eventually launch some litigation. Great. Knock yourselves out with the attempt.