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US IAM Fleet Service topic 15Jul-

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To all Sisters and Brothers affected by Displacement wishing PHX was an option? If PHX would be your choice to work and transfer to put it first on your selection! It is possible PHX will be added to the list of stations? This will also let the company know this station should of been on the transfer list of stations. THX GF
Do it! Always good to see new faces. I'd think if they can hand out OT in the mornings they could probably accommodate more transfers. Most of the people that transfer to PHX from field stations like the change of pace...
 
Do it! Always good to see new faces. I'd think if they can hand out OT in the mornings they could probably accommodate more transfers. Most of the people that transfer to PHX from field stations like the change of pace...

And the heat stroke... does anyone recall the guy that transferred into PHX last summer and gorked about after a week on the ramp? Quiet guy... Richard-something... By the way, My Dear Mister Roabilly, how might you enjoy your tamales when you make the X-fer to Fry Town? Also Mexican or sweet rice?

However, I post not to taunt, but rather to prevail upon some to think differently from expectations, as in the case of my newly admiring, Mr. Tally Yo. Tossing down both baggage stained gauntlets looking for response after being highly critical of my admonishments to better oneself through either an education or job skills, were you?

First, let's set the record straight contrary to your assertions... I am not advocating for everyone to get a degree in Business Adminstration. In fact, quite the opposite, as business graduates are not the hot majors compared to degrees in Nursing, Education, and science related fields. There is a reason as to why H-1B visas are still being issued mostly to those with a strong math and science background, because there are not enough US residents who can fulfill the need. Furthermore, I would never advocate college for everyone, but rather also consider an alternative in obtaining particular job skills in demand... mashing bags few would consider to be a meaningful job skill. Being able to pee clean urine for a drug screening or failing to have a criminal history to preclude a ramp agent job would not be a good example of our "skills" given prior to the mergue America West would move hundreds of employees through the PHX ramp every year prior to the bad economy and sizable pay raise.

Secondly, unless you are a few years away from retirement, you are never too old by continuing to improve your education and skill set. I believe I read somewhere once, that on average, someone will change careers approximately 7 times in their adult working years. That means, even at 50 years of age, there is still a good chance of another career change before retirement. Will you coast the next 15 years into retirement with a menial, low-paying job requiring minimal skills or will you finish-up strong into retirement saving a handsome sum to live comfortably? Your IAM coveted pension won't do you much good at 50 as 15 years will be a long time to be unemployed. I fully understand that change is hard, especially as one ages and learning new ways and new thinking would be particularly difficult. However, we need to embrace the idea of needing to learn and improve yourself, or become a victim to those who are willing to put the time into bettering themselves.

And finally, something we agree upon... like you, I enjoy my anonymity, thus I shall eschew in providing any particular details to my prior work experiences, education, or skill set.

So Offers Jester.
 
To all Sisters and Brothers affected by Displacement wishing PHX was an option? If PHX would be your choice to work and transfer to put it first on your selection! It is possible PHX will be added to the list of stations? This will also let the company know this station should of been on the transfer list of stations. THX GF

Does anyone have the list of cities? PHX was on the list last winter with that downsizing.
 
And the heat stroke... does anyone recall the guy that transferred into PHX last summer and gorked about after a week on the ramp? Quiet guy... Richard-something...
Richard Turner. I think he had a heart attack, and it wasn't at work. Transferred from LAS...
 
First, let's set the record straight contrary to your assertions... I am not advocating for everyone to get a degree in Business Adminstration. In fact, quite the opposite, as business graduates are not the hot majors compared to degrees in Nursing, Education, and science related fields. There is a reason as to why H-1B visas are still being issued mostly to those with a strong math and science background, because there are not enough US residents who can fulfill the need. Furthermore, I would never advocate college for everyone, but rather also consider an alternative in obtaining particular job skills in demand... mashing bags few would consider to be a meaningful job skill. Being able to pee clean urine for a drug screening or failing to have a criminal history to preclude a ramp agent job would not be a good example of our "skills" given prior to the mergue America West would move hundreds of employees through the PHX ramp every year prior to the bad economy and sizable pay raise.

Secondly, unless you are a few years away from retirement, you are never too old by continuing to improve your education and skill set. I believe I read somewhere once, that on average, someone will change careers approximately 7 times in their adult working years. That means, even at 50 years of age, there is still a good chance of another career change before retirement. Will you coast the next 15 years into retirement with a menial, low-paying job requiring minimal skills or will you finish-up strong into retirement saving a handsome sum to live comfortably? Your IAM coveted pension won't do you much good at 50 as 15 years will be a long time to be unemployed. I fully understand that change is hard, especially as one ages and learning new ways and new thinking would be particularly difficult. However, we need to embrace the idea of needing to learn and improve yourself, or become a victim to those who are willing to put the time into bettering themselves.

And finally, something we agree upon... like you, I enjoy my anonymity, thus I shall eschew in providing any particular details to my prior work experiences, education, or skill set.

So Offers Jester.
Ok, you listed 3 job careers, Teaching well I make more working on the ramp than having a simple teachers degree ... i think you would agree!!! Nursing well If I use your example of being 50, now I go back to school for another 4 yrs to become a nurse, accumulate debt for school, then I turn 54 and it takes me 5 yrs to pay off that debt if Im lucky now Im 59 So you have 6 years to make enough money to retire on??? that math doesnt work. Science related fields for that matter would lead to the same place. So now lets look at staying with US and the IAM at age 50 full - time I believe our multiplier for the pension is somewhere around 70, so 70x15=1050 per month in retirement without having to pay back loans and you are now also receiving social security(if our fearless govt doesnt fold). If you can figure some other kind of math out let me know, FUZZY MATH doesnt work on the educated.

So Opines,
Tally yo
 
Does anyone have the list of cities? PHX was on the list last winter with that downsizing.
Saw the list recently, the choices are: DEN, DFW, MCI, MSY, CLT, DCA, PHL, MHT. There may have been one other East City listed, but the 8 I mention were on the list of choices. I have a feeling the reason PHX has no current openings is that 1) The TUS furloughs from back in May filled some slots, and 2) possible reduction in flying with the Fall schedule.

I would list PHX as a recall city only if none of the other cities listed were viable options... otherwise you subject yourself to the gamble of the 60-day rule. The odds are not in your favor. If at all possible, stay on the payroll and go to one of the cities listed above!!
 
Saw the list recently, the choices are: DEN, DFW, MCI, MSY, CLT, DCA, PHL, MHT. There may have been one other East City listed, but the 8 I mention were on the list of choices. I have a feeling the reason PHX has no current openings is that 1) The TUS furloughs from back in May filled some slots, and 2) possible reduction in flying with the Fall schedule.

I would list PHX as a recall city only if none of the other cities listed were viable options... otherwise you subject yourself to the gamble of the 60-day rule. The odds are not in your favor. If at all possible, stay on the payroll and go to one of the cities listed above!!

i'm known for having a bad memory , but didn't we do away with the 60 day rule ?
 
Saw the list recently, the choices are: DEN, DFW, MCI, MSY, CLT, DCA, PHL, MHT. There may have been one other East City listed, but the 8 I mention were on the list of choices. I have a feeling the reason PHX has no current openings is that 1) The TUS furloughs from back in May filled some slots, and 2) possible reduction in flying with the Fall schedule.

I would list PHX as a recall city only if none of the other cities listed were viable options... otherwise you subject yourself to the gamble of the 60-day rule. The odds are not in your favor. If at all possible, stay on the payroll and go to one of the cities listed above!!

We had the entire northeast corridor on our list last winter. What happened to LGA and BOS? They were trying to get us to go there. BOS would be my main choice but I can't afford it. DFW wasn't on the list. I put down cities on my choices that weren't on the list. Can't hurt anything. In my case this all worked out in my favor. This station has good folks. Weather is horrendous, though, here at Camp Swampy. The humidity is a killer.
 
I thought so too. Unfortunately, the company still retains its trump card. Go to page 51 of our contract and see item 9.

Elimination of the 60-day rule was one of the things that was implemented but when the company printed the contracts, sure enough, it was there. It's under arbitration now. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
 
Ok, you listed 3 job careers, Teaching well I make more working on the ramp than having a simple teachers degree ... i think you would agree!!! Nursing well If I use your example of being 50, now I go back to school for another 4 yrs to become a nurse, accumulate debt for school, then I turn 54 and it takes me 5 yrs to pay off that debt if Im lucky now Im 59 So you have 6 years to make enough money to retire on??? that math doesnt work. Science related fields for that matter would lead to the same place. So now lets look at staying with US and the IAM at age 50 full - time I believe our multiplier for the pension is somewhere around 70, so 70x15=1050 per month in retirement without having to pay back loans and you are now also receiving social security(if our fearless govt doesnt fold). If you can figure some other kind of math out let me know, FUZZY MATH doesnt work on the educated.

So Opines,
Tally yo

Mr. Yo,

Your entire analysis is predicated upon one simple, yet critical assumption... That you never lose your job at US Airways. The Company never closes or you never get canned, at least, not until you get close to retirement. (How quickly the Easties forget about two bankruptcies a few years apart.) Otherwise? You are just another $8/hour schlub scrounging for a subsidence living, at least, until you can put enough years (assuming you have that many work years left) to build-up to a decent payscale. Some people are victims of circumstances, and some people make themselves victims. Life's a choice... and even if you do nothing, you have still make a choice.

I would rather have a job with much greater job security than a legacy airline paying $50K a year with $20K in debt, than to find myself after a year of unemployment picking my ass being "debt free" in terms of student loans, but having only $8/hour jobs as the only option. How's that "fuzzy math" workin' fur yew?

So Philosophizes Jester.
 
Jester I simply used you analogy of being 50!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cmon If some one gets hired on new with nothing going for them at 50 well then they arent going to do anything else anyways. Now you want to throw variables like $8/hours well thats way below our scale anyhow, no one makes less than $9.50. Now you want to throw out things like outsourcing, where were you when alot of people on this site were warning people about outsourcing. I think what you want to say is get a college education out of hiugh school so you dont have to worry about jobs like ours being lost.... I will give you that, If i could go back today when I was 18 and my parents fed me college and I showed up to class and graduated with a degree I wouldnt be worrying about this. However I was fed a golden spoon and didnt take it, not many people have that choice....... However today not many people are young in our airline anymore, and we stay here bcuz we dont want to start over again at 35 or 50.......... when we got hired back in those days the airlines were the premium jobs if im not mistaken........ Its easy to preach "Do as I say not as i did" I get it if your telling our youngsters to do it, however when you talk about being 50 and throwing examples like that out there it doesnt fit. thats straight math for you


So opines
Tally Yo
 
The cursed 60 day rule still applies to those currently on furlough prior to the ratification of the last T/A. By this time, most if not all that were put on the street with the outsourcing bonanza of 2005 are beyond thier 4 year recall preiod. The 60 day rule doesn't apply to anyone furloughed AFTER the ratification date, which was sometime last May. It is beyond me why it didn't vanish completly since there were only a few hunderd possilbe empolyees that could have came back to work at their current rate of pay. I do believe that it goes beyond someone in the company who wanted to keep these peole from returning to work given that most were very senior agants. One must wonder how and why Fleet service was the ONLY workgroup on the property that was subjest to this great injustice to begin with. If the company was the brains behind this, I'm sure they would have tried to impose it on other groups as well.
 
OK, so the 60-day rule only applies to employees furloughed prior to the T.A. That is not how it is worded in the T.A. If it is no longer applicable, than it should be removed! Sorry, but that is a major gaff by the company and the union to allow it to remain in print in the contract that we all have to follow.
 
OK, so the 60-day rule only applies to employees furloughed prior to the T.A. That is not how it is worded in the T.A. If it is no longer applicable, than it should be removed! Sorry, but that is a major gaff by the company and the union to allow it to remain in print in the contract that we all have to follow.

There are several things that are in the printed in the contract distributed to fleet that are not supposed to be in there. I believe the issue is in arbitration.
 
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