US IAM Fleet Service topic 15Jul-

[cltrat]

If we really are going under moaning about our managment won't help a twit. Instead we should seek to direct our anger where it will do us the most good,at the bond holders and creditors of our company.

If we want to save our jobs then we must go after them.

What kind of statement is that? If not for them you likely would not be here! The only thing wrong they did was invest in people who apparently don't know what they are doing

Running off FF's
Treating workers like necessary evils the list for Dumb and Dumber goes on and on

get off Dumbs lawn mower and smell the coffee

given your idiotic rants in other forums about running up your credit card and not paying it off

you must think you deserve something for nothing.

but I doubt that surprises anyone here

 

[700UW]

I never said you dont have influence over management I said unions dont run the company.

They have to follow the CBA, and if they violate it they have to pay for it, so it makes them think before they do something that will violate the CBA.

They have to follow the wages, benefits, vacations, pensions and everything in the CBA.

Like I said, go ask the East workers who were non-union in 1992 how the company changed their working conditions.

Go ask the Delta employees, not NW, but DL how much of a say did they have when the company changed their working conditions during their chapter 11 bankruptcy, ask them how many Section 1113 negotiations took place, oh thats right, there ramp and customer service is non-union so none.

Go ask the CO employees ramp and CSA what happened to them in 2005 when CO took concessions, did they have a say?

Do you get the pattern here?

Ask yourself why the airlines have one of the highest percentage of a unionized workforce, has to be a reason.

 

[LD3]

its a lot better to be in a union job than a non union job because in a non union job mgmt can and will screw you up

Depending on what industry your in...I am ok with what I make, sure I think I am worth more, I have stability, good beni's and a pension...It's who you work for that determines if a union is needed or not..

 

[freedom]

[quote name='cltrat' date='Jul 20 2009, 10:33 AM' post='

you must think you deserve something for nothing.

but I doubt that surprises anyone here
[/quote]

I don't want something for nothing ,I just want to work.

 

[Jester]

I never said you dont have influence over management I said unions dont run the company...


Do you get the pattern here?

Ask yourself why the airlines have one of the highest percentage of a unionized workforce, has to be a reason.

Indeed 700UW!

I see a pattern here... you play these cute games of blaming management for this company's failures, and now begrudgingly admit, well, yes... the unions DO have influence over management (and company policies), not to mention, consumer service. That only took you two months to admit to it... Props to you!

Of course, the mantra of "Work Slow, errrr... Safe" would NOW suddenly have an impact on a company's performance, not to mention, various other bloated ideas in the name of "solidarity" and "Stickin' It to The Man!" I warned you months ago to be careful on how you answer that question, because now you admit that the IAM is also culpable in the success and failure of this organization.

Furthermore, don't try economics as a secondary career. The airlines have one of the highest unionized work forces for systemic reasons which go back to their inception. The fact that airlines are "old industry" like steel, mining and auto manufacturing from 80 years ago would be a greater influence than on poor wages in non-unionized organizations. Also don't overlook the pre-Deregulation Era whereby there was little in the way of competition fares were set by the CAB on a cost-plus system. Higher wages through the establishment of unions were able to be passed along in higher fares, especially as airline executive were fat, happy, stupid, and very profitable, and partaking in higher wages were part of "rent sharing" (that's a good economic concept for you to review for next time). Once these unions were established, it would be nearly impossible to have them removed along with all their legacy cost structures for decades into the future. It is not a function of unhappy workers, but a function of a begone era of guaranteed profits regardless of costs. If unions where the antidote to unhappy workers, then this board would to fail to exist.

So Schools Jester.

 

[700UW]

Both sides agree to the CBA, working safe is nothing more than working by the established company rules, policies and guidelines, not cutting corners, dont want to get hurt you know.

US East on the ramp have only been organized since 1995, CSAs was 1990, not a long time considering M&R have been since 1949.

Same as UAL, back in the 90s is when their CSA and Res organized, age of a company has nothing to do with being organized or not, its when the workers want a say in what happens to their wages, benefits and working conditions.

You fail to grasp the concept that every union in the airline industry at one time or another has taken concessions to save the business only to see management fail again.

You preach education, why dont you educate yourself on why airlines so are unionized and how many time have those very unions taken concessions to save their jobs.

I sat in Bankruptcy court and watched Lakefield say I am not tkaing a paycut but my workers need to take a 21% immediate cut or we will go out of business, yet Lakefield's salary was more than Kelleher and Neelman, gee both who ran airlines that were making profits, not losses and not in bankruptcy, Bronner and Lakefield should have hired Ioccia or at least consulted him on how to run a business, leadership starts at the top and US is soarley lacking leadership.

In the 90s we came up with so many money saving ideas we bought a Boeing 757-200 A/C 610AU with the cost savings, we saved millions in CLT hvy mtc only to see jobs lost to outsourcing, right now the bridge checks in PIT are taking forever cause HP's paperwork sucks. Once again the unionized workers are stepping up to streamline the process to the planes dont sit in the hangar cause of paper fiascoes.

Crawl out of the bag bin and see the real world our there.

 

[Dog Wonder]

Crawl out of the bag bin and see the real world our there.

Nothing about working in a bag bin interferes with seeing the real world.

 

[Tally yo]

Jester....Jester..... Jester.......

You seem to be highly educated, though you've never given us any background on yourself, other than you went to college for many years. And then you (posing/acting/actually) a ramper come on here and bash the union and ask what its going to do for you or any of us if the doors close. Well I have one small simple answer, PENSION, yes it is small being newly implemeted on the West, I take it thats where your from, however I believe the East has been in it for three years now and if the doors close tomorrow their will be something their down the road for you. Ask yourself, what will the company do for you if the doors close tomorrow? You say everyone needs to go on monster.com and get a job their from a degree, well some employees are in their 40s and 50s and are not going to go back to school. What would happen if everyone in this country got a degree in Business Administrations?? Guess what they would be hiring you for 9.00 an hour because everyone has that degree. By simply going back to school to get a degree will not answer all problems. If US Air closes tomorrow and every employee lets say 75,000 goes back to school to get a degree guess what now you have just lowered pay in that job due to the newly educated just out of college folk, Companies will simply fire the old in with the new and cheap work force. SUPPLY and DEMAND, O educated one. And just so you know, US Air simply cant go to a bus stop anymore and hire someone, they have to be Drug free, and a clean background check, its harder than it sounds, O educated one.

PS, Ive been here before, Ive posted before, but I will now hide my identity like most on here do......

 

[roabilly]

Tally Bro!

Welcome to this thread! Very insightful post! The essence of what I’ve been addressing here was captured in your words! Just a few more words regarding EDUCATION.... don’t get me wrong...I like ol’ Jester... he keeps things interesting...but...we all know what’s up! I have an Aunt that went to college for years and years...actually her whole life!

We’ll never know how many degrees she has acquired, because she is s lives as a spinster...and will not disclose her personal achievements, or her socioeconomic status.

Education, is obviously beneficial to anyone whom may pursue it...but...is it beneficial to our society as whole? Especially when the application is directed toward the advancement of Global Corporate Conglomerates that have absolutely NO interest in the wellbeing of mankind?

 

[Dog Wonder]

Education allows one to pursue their own course.

The course they take is not always in pursuit of wealth or power.

 

[roabilly]

Education allows one to pursue their own course.

The course they take is not always in pursuit of wealth or power.

Very well said... should wealth and the pursuit of additional wealth, always supersede our obligations as human beings? From a Fleet Service perspective let’s ask Corporate America that question.... and see what response we get!

 

[orioleman]

I hear yahh 'O'...

He's gonna attend a BBQ down here soon...Yew in charge ahh accommodations make sure he’s comfortable!

Roa Got it covered..

 

[Edward]

Folks this is a warning to everyone posting here. This thread is about USAirways Fleet Service issues. It is NOT about other posters. Also attempts to out other posters will not be tolerated & the next one gets time off.

I've gone through here & deleted several off topic posts as we are not editing. So lets get back on topic.

 

[ChockJockey]

Now...I’m going to become a career advisor for you. I’ll submit to you the same advice I gave Chock Jockey regarding this matter. Simply seek a position, or a career field that is NOT unionized! Your Monstor.com has thousands of these positions available!

I think you entirely misunderstand my opinions on this matter. Every day I enjoy the benefits of a union job and a union shop. This is the easiest and funnest job I've ever had and I left a job paying 2.5 times as much in order to get it.

I think the union provides useful tools and resources for the membership and is worth the dues I pay into it, because I can realize the practical benefits of having a union. As such, I am not anti-union.

Where I deviate from the lot of you is that I refuse to see these complex issues and my day-to-day interactions at work through the filter of union ideology. This may have to do with the fact that I see no reason to trust the greater IAM (or TWA or Teamsters or whomever) as a large funded organization more and more apt to see to its own greater survival than to the trials of its component lodges. Tell me there are no fat cats in the IAM and that there never have been. Tell me that unions, unlike the federal government, mass media, religious leaders, the CIA, lobbyists, political parties, big industry, political action committees, defense contractors, foreign governments, trade blocs are free from the trappings of back-room dealing and the wholesale exploitation and selling-out of those that depend on them and feed them and trust them.

So the union doesn't make this job so intolerable that I'd want to quit, the opposite actually. Do you understand how there is more to this than simply being "pro-union" or "pro-management"? Why am I here at US Airways? I get paid to work out, drink soda, read, meet new people, and travel for free on my time off. Essentially, my job is to do things that other people wish they were doing with their spare time.

 

[ChockJockey]

Education, is obviously beneficial to anyone whom may pursue it...but...is it beneficial to our society as whole? Especially when the application is directed toward the advancement of Global Corporate Conglomerates that have absolutely NO interest in the wellbeing of mankind?

I think it's completely hilarious that you're really trying to justify the demonizing of education. Education can be used in the fight against the working man, therefore education = bad. Nice.

Education is what I originally went to school to get my degree in, and I will likely be going back soon to finish while still at US; that way I can have the best of both worlds.

We live in an era of crumbling institutions. To think that airlines and their unions are going to always facilitate an environment that allows cradle-to grave blue-collar careers with pensions and lollipops is becoming a riskier bet by the day. I agree with Jester that it behooves one to find or hone a skill that increases an individual's value in the job market. It may be different on the East coast, but out here nobody's interested in paying you more for unskilled labor just because you think they have a moral imperative to subsidize your middle class lifestyle for the good of the country.

I made good money and gained valuable experience working at non-union companies; I was well treated and never had any disciplinary issues whatsoever. Unfortunately there was more stress and BS than I was anymore willing to deal with and I broke for a job with a lot less responsibility...

So I'll continue to work at US as long as I can and maintain it as something to launch my future from and fall back on if necessary but I won't rely on it as my sole livelihood.