US pilot labor thread 6/21-6/27

[EastUS]

Well, well, well. We now have something official. And you're not going to like it "oldie." I told you to wait until the official news came out instead of relying on the media, who are notorious for blundering the details.

So it looks like you were wrong. Again. As I predicted, the 1450 number accounts for inactive pilots. 950 is the starting point for active pilots BEFORE furlough mitigation like voluntary leaves, surplus reduction lines, early outs, etc. The number will only get smaller from there, breaking the "tie" you claimed above, and clearly bringing the final numbers closer to MY original estimate of 500-700. (Admittedly higher than I anticipated, but within a reasonable margin of error for an educated guess.) We could easily see over 100 voluntary leaves based on past experience after 9/11.

Wow "jetz"...that's such completely wonderful news then!! Gee!..Merely hundreds of your "fellow pilots" are going to be forced out of jobs...and all your pathetic arse is fretting over is you being "right" or wrong about the numbers of such? Ladies and Gentlemen...I think we've found a perfect poster child for the Alpa/"It's ALL about MEEE!" sense of "Fraternity". Excuse my wanton, spiritual and unionist ignorance...but I hate to see ANYONE furloughed.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

USAPA is my source of amusement, along with those who think that they can continue failed policies with some hope of success. Of course it's cruel to sit there and watch them bang on the door for an hour without reminding them it says "Pull". Pure genius!

But my greatest laugh is yet to come, when Parker tells Pres. Bendforward that he will not accept a DOH list and that the termination of pilots during the current crisis would be a hardship on the airline and that they should continue to look for solutions to their internal problems. All the while the clock ticks away towards the next representation election which I am sure will have some surprises for everybody.

But keep on rooting against the west. Look how much good it's done ya so far.

Oh, and the TRO is a nice touch. Do you all like when Pres. Bendforward yells, "RESPECT MY AUTHORITYYY"?

Like I said "Utter nonsense". But why should I expect anything more? Your childish attempts at insults only reveal your true character. Hope anger management class is in your future. It will help at the next interview.

Addendum: Unless you were in on the meeting with Parker, Kirby, Isom and Bradford, I would hold off on the laughs if I were you. Especially with your track record of prognostications. BTW. I'm still jealous the "Voices are talking to you".

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Not to change the subject, but....Why the red stapler?

KTM -

OK, no more wise cracks. Sorry about that. It was one of those "red suspenders" moments.

The stapler was chosen simply to annoy the certain board participants. Some of them think that stapling would be my choice (west on top, of course) were I to have the power to merge seniority lists. No so.

Meanwhile the stapler's annoyance factor seems to be effective, based on the gnarly comments that appear from time to time.

But in reality, the stapler is there for one thing: if it makes some of the east unhappy, I would hope that they could, even for one second, imagine what their inequitable and unethical DOH stance does to the west. You see, using that completely unfair methodology (which even the east hasn't done to their own) 8 out of 9 former AWA pilots would be stapled - and they would be stapled below pilots who were furloughed - not working for US Airways - at the time of the merge.

So, is the stapler arrogant? Perhaps. But it is not nearly as arrogant as the attitude of those who would be pleased to stuff DOH down our collective throats.

There are many who do not like these words, but regardless: the Nic stays, and so does the red stapler.


INTEGRITY MATTERS

NLC

 

[AAA73Pilot]

There are many who do not like these words, but regardless: the Nic stays.............

You're most definitely entitled to your opinion. IMO I think your conclusion is wrong. As for your "words". Oh well, it really doesn't matter really. At least you haven't disappeared like so many of your colleagues from here.

 

[767jetz]

Wow "jetz"...that's such completely wonderful news then!!

Excuse me, but it was YOU who said this:

imho: 500-700 total furloughs for a reduction of 100 aircraft's childish dreaming. Actually assuming that Alpa will effectively "mitigate" anything is pure insanity.

And your distinguished partner oldiebutgoody was speculating with glee about UA furloughing 1200-1500 pilots and even as high as 1760 pilots!

At every turn I argued that the bloodletting will not be as bad as you and your attack dogs were childishly speculating. My glass was half full. Yours was half empty. Of course no one (except maybe you and "oldie") wants to see ANYONE get furloughed. So yes, I am enthusiastically happy that I was right and your predictions did not come to pass. If you and oldie were right, many more pilots would be on the street. Something your group was practically hoping for, the way you attacked me with my more conservative and hopeful predictions.

Leave it to you to try and twist it around. Your hypocrisy is evident. On behalf of the hundreds of UA pilots that will NOT be furloughed as you predicted... enjoy that egg on your face! :down:

 

[EastUS]

Excuse me, but it was YOU who said this:


Your hypocrisy is evident.

MY 'hypocisiy" is evident? Ummm..you've previously and publicly announced to the "world" that you had permanently put my postings on "ignore" Would you care to see your posted reference? Given that you cant' even keep your Word on even that level...well...no matter, I expect nothing more from such as yourself in any case 😉 More to the point is: What's "evident" to me, is your narcicisstic and complete disregard for your fellows. A more perfect "champion" for Alpa I can't imagine 😉 In an earlier encounter with another poster...you went so far as to flippantly brag that you, personally, were in no danger of furlough. Would you care to have that posting revisited?

"On behalf of the hundreds of UA pilots that will NOT be furloughed as you predicted... enjoy that egg on your face!" No problem for me, in that I don't wish to see anyone furloughed...not even you "jetz"....period.

EastUS: "imho: 500-700 total furloughs for a reduction of 100 aircraft's childish dreaming." I still very much fear that such will prove true. An essential difference between us is that I do NOT wish to be proved "right" in this case, and fully hope that there will be far less, and that I'll be wrong in my assumptions here. I don't consider the massive loss of your coworker's jobs to be something to make personal sport of....you evidently differ therein.

 

[767jetz]

No problem for me, in that I don't wish to see anyone furloughed...not even you "jetz"....period.

Why thank you so much.

With the recent failure of last UA/US merger attempt, I thought there was no longer a need to have anyone on my ignore list, since I really don't care if you tear each other up in your little civil war. Obviously I was mistaken, as the attack dogs are in full swing, feverishly typing away with their attacks.

And with that you are now back on ignore status along with nostradamus.

Bye bye...

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Furloughing one is one too many. For those on the receiving end of a furlough letter, their lives are about to be turned upside down..........and for some.........again. Sorry to hear it was more than 500-700, and glad it was less than ~1700. Our own 300 is bad enough. The problem is, this go around of cuts could be much harder to recover from. If oil stays sky high (pun intended) you can bet there are more cuts for all of us on the horizon. :down:

 

[EastUS]

Why thank you so much.

With the recent failure of last UA/US merger attempt, I thought there was no longer a need to have anyone on my ignore list, since I really don't care if you tear each other up in your little civil war. Obviously I was mistaken, as the attack dogs are in full swing, feverishly typing away with their attacks.

And with that you are now back on ignore status along with nostradamus.

Bye bye...

Ummm.."since I really don't care if you tear each other up in your little civil war." What tha' heck are you doing around here then?...One of us is seriously "confused" methinks. Would you care for a reposting of one of your fabulous "going to stay" to help your west/Alpa loves Nic comrades in their righteous fight? And now?..You've not the least concern for them?..or our "little civil war"?..They must now feel so cheap. You "sir"..are one cross-threaded, lightweight that blows around in all directions with the slightest seasonal zephr. You just might yet make it up to Alpa Notional.

"And with that you are now back on ignore status along with nostradamus."

Umm, yet again..any actual, honest reason to hope that this one's actually "permanent" this time? 🙄 Aww gosh darn it.....permanently ignored...again!! 😉 Oh..the "permanent" part was ommitted this time...welll..I've always admired consistency within any person.....

 

[EastUS]

Furloughing one is one too many. For those on the receiving end of a furlough letter, their lives are about to be turned upside down..........and for some.........again. Sorry to hear it was more than 500-700, and glad it was less than ~1700. Our own 300 is bad enough.

Amen. One/any is too many....for all of us in this lunatic "industry".

 

[EastUS]

KTM -
But in reality, the stapler is there for one thing: if it makes some of the east unhappy, I would hope that they could, even for one second, imagine what their inequitable and unethical DOH stance does to the west. You see, using that completely unfair methodology (which even the east hasn't done to their own) 8 out of 9 former AWA pilots would be stapled - and they would be stapled below pilots who were furloughed - not working for US Airways - at the time of the merge.

What a completely unmitigated crock full of 100% pure BS, utterly dishonest, and so typical of west "Integrity". Would you like to have it posted here as to when you actually started brandishing the gleefull little stapler?..Hint to all...It was a LONG time before USAPA, and in actual fact, it was fully at the height of west "Ho Ho Ho, St Nic is coming to town!" feeding-frenzy fantasies.

 

[pilot]

I only know what USAPA puts out which is that they have directed their negotiating team to pursue a DOH list.They have not stated any other goals, so one can assume that this is their primary goal, at the expense of all others.

While many can talk about other lack of integrity, USAPA demonstrates it on an ongoing basis.

The intelligence level here is quite breathtaking. Wow!

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Excuse me, but it was YOU who said this:


And your distinguished partner oldiebutgoody was speculating with glee about UA furloughing 1200-1500 pilots and even as high as 1760 pilots!

At every turn I argued that the bloodletting will not be as bad as you and your attack dogs were childishly speculating. My glass was half full. Yours was half empty. Of course no one (except maybe you and "oldie") wants to see ANYONE get furloughed. So yes, I am enthusiastically happy that I was right and your predictions did not come to pass. If you and oldie were right, many more pilots would be on the street. Something your group was practically hoping for, the way you attacked me with my more conservative and hopeful predictions.

Leave it to you to try and twist it around. Your hypocrisy is evident. On behalf of the hundreds of UA pilots that will NOT be furloughed as you predicted... enjoy that egg on your face! :down:

There was no glee here. And 767jetz is STILL WRONG! How childish you are. Just admit your are wrong and get on with it already. I thought you said you weren't going to be furloughed in any event? I guess your credibility shows.

I just read an article that said that the 950 number was for parking the initial 70 aircraft by the end of the year. That means MORE are coming anyway.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080623/united_pilots.html?.v=8

Now take your UAL crap back to the UAL board where it belongs. You are truly a "spin master" (that's a nice way to say liar)

 

[exB717Flyer]

A TRO was issued? Oh do tell.

USAPA has petitioned the court for a TRO to make the named defendents stop their alleged actions. The judge will consider that motion this Friday after he considers AWAPPA's Motion to Dismiss.

 

[767jetz]

I knew you would wouldn't be able to show integrity and admit your error. YOU sir are the spin master.

There was no glee here. And 767jetz is STILL WRONG! How childish you are. Just admit your are wrong and get on with it already. I thought you said you weren't going to be furloughed in any event? I guess your credibility shows.

I just read an article that said that the 950 number was for parking the initial 70 aircraft by the end of the year. That means MORE are coming anyway.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080623/united_pilots.html?.v=8

Now take your UAL crap back to the UAL board where it belongs. You are truly a "spin master" (that's a nice way to say liar)

No. No. No. You are completely wrong and no amount of spin will change that. The 950 is the TOTAL number for the 100 airplanes parked. UA already announced the first 30 737's months ago. They've added 64 more plus 6 747's for a grand total of 100.
------------------------------------------
Here it is again for the comprehensively challenged:

From UAL's employee communications:
Planned Reduction in Fleet by 100 Aircraft to Result in 950 Pilot Furloughs by Year-End 2009
Posted June 23, 2008

Today we announced initial details concerning the first wave of pilot furloughs resulting from our plans to take 100 aircraft from our mainline fleet due to record high oil prices and a softening U.S. economy. The first notices to furlough approximately 100 pilots for the flying month of September will be issued in mid-July.

By the end of 2009, when we expect to complete the full reduction of our 94 B737 aircraft and six B747s (see June 4 NewsReal), we anticipate the need to furlough approximately 950 active pilots. This process is one of the difficult but necessary steps we need to take to size our business appropriately to reflect the current market reality.

Due to the number of United pilots on military and personal leave, approximately 1450 furlough notices will be distributed over time in order to reduce our active pilot ranks by 950.

We currently are discussing with ALPA ways to reduce the number of involuntary furloughs, and we will communicate any agreements that result.
------------------------------------------

Can't you read, man?????

Who's being childish? Just admit you are wrong and get on with it already.
And what on Earth are you talking about wrt credibility. I will not be furloughed. I said I will be considering a voluntary leave or a surplus reduction line. I am in a financial position to be able to afford that and possibly save one more furloughee. My integrity is fully intact, sir.

ALPA is still negotiating with the company to reduce the number of involuntary furloughs, and we are hopeful that the 950 number can be reduced significantly further, since furloughing anyone is unacceptable. Minimizing it and saving as many jobs as we can is the highest priority.

There will be no more reductions beyond that. Just take a deep breath and read the official communication from UAL's management. You seem awfully upset that your predictions didn't come true, and you are even hoping that "more will be coming", when in fact this is it. THAT speaks loudly to YOUR credibility and integrity.

Most people in your situation would be happy to admit that their inflated predictions of people losing their jobs was way off. How childish. You seem to be holding out hope that there will be more just so you can be right. I'm glad you're not on our team.

Once again, the reduction of 100 airplanes and the furloughs will be completed by the end of 2009 and require a reduction in active pilots of 950. The company is still discussing ways to reduce the number of involuntary furloughs. Those are the facts. No lies. It's right there in black and white.