US pilot labor thread 6/21-6/27

[prechilill]

Based on your responses thus far, they come across as very immature. Are you a new hire?

LOL.. another subjective opinion for the board. You people are funny. Just because tazz disagrees with your opinion you label him immature-- SOP for our resident easties around here...

 

[AAA73Pilot]

QUOTE (Piedmont1984 @ Jun 22 2008, 07:49 AM)
Like I've said before. The only things in this life that are truly binding are death and taxes

That must make your wife feel very secure.

What a statement. Are you something special? PI1984 stated the obvious. It applies to everybody. No exceptions. Except of course you I guess. Reality is what it is. But your attempt to insult does no one any good and serves no purpose other than to inflame. Get over it.

Prechilill: LOL.. another subjective opinion for the board. You people are funny. Just because tazz disagrees with your opinion you label him immature-- SOP for our resident easties around here...

I think he called like he sees it. The funny part is great though. West grasping is a never ending source of amusement.

 

[prechilill]

Does that prophecy have the same weight and credibility as the previous westie predictions? e.g. "you won't get 200 cards," "not even half the east pilots will vote for USAPA."

Keep prognosticating. You guys have done a great job of "foot in mouth" in that respect so far. It's fun to see you lose every prediction you have made. As you will this one.

Yes, we were wrong about the outcome of the vote- the west overestimated the amount of common sense you guys have.

 

[checksix]

LOL.. another subjective opinion for the board. You people are funny. Just because tazz disagrees with your opinion you label him immature-- SOP for our resident easties around here...

You know better than that; it had nothing to do with disagreeing with one's opinion. It's making childish remarks such as the one quoted. Your grasping at straws now huh? Ouch........

 

[checksix]

Yes, we were wrong about the outcome of the vote- the west overestimated the amount of common sense you guys have.

Close, chilli, I'm impressed. You were correct with the fact that you have been wrong, (which seems to be the norm of operation). But you missed on the second part - you guys don't overestimate, you underestimate. Underestimating isn't such a big deal, however, when you're right. If I could offer some advice; I'd focus on improving with your first acknowledgment, it will help you through the other short comings.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Yes, we were wrong about the outcome of the vote- the west overestimated the amount of common sense you guys have.

"Common sense?" Or your lack thereof. It shouldn't have taken a rocket scientist to understand when you were told Nic wasn't going to stand as is. Lets see, the company, ALPA National and the east MEC should have given you the least amount of a hint. But then you subject us to such unifying barbs as "I want the Captain seat, and most of all I want the east pilots to pay for it". Common sense would have told you that things would not continue as is. What more did you need? Integrity does matter, you just seem to apply it selectively.

 

[prechilill]

Lets see, the company, ALPA National and the east MEC should have given you the least amount of a hint.

ALPA has never made an official comment on the arbitration process, except to affirm it was valid and all procedures were properly followed. Your emotions misguide you. But, assuming for a moment ALPA did say Nic was unfair (as you claim), then why did you guys then crucify them for it?

 

[AAA73Pilot]

ALPA has never made an official comment on the arbitration process, except to affirm it was valid and all procedures were properly followed. Your emotions misguide you. But, assuming for a moment ALPA did say Nic was unfair (as you claim), then why did you guys then crucify them for it?

My emotions? Now that is really funny. I spoke with Prater last summer, is that good enough for you? Naw, you wouldn't believe me anyway. So why try now? As for the rest of why ALPA is gone, seems to me we've had this discussion before. Ad nauseum. It's not a single issue as you would like to believe. But your harping on it, as if it was, speaks volumes.

Official or unofficial. Doesn't matter. The hints is what the discussion centered on. By 3 groups no less. Common sense again failed you.

 

[prechilill]

My emotions? Now that is really funny. I spoke with Prater last summer, is that good enough for you? Naw, you wouldn't believe me anyway. So why try now? As for the rest of why ALPA is gone, seems to me we've had this discussion before. Ad nauseum. It's not a single issue as you would like to believe. But your harping on it, as if it was, speaks volumes.

Official or unofficial. Doesn't matter. The hints is what the discussion centered on. By 3 groups no less. Common sense again failed you.

Ok, that is what I thought- you confused Prater's personal opinion with ALPA's official position. Thanks for your honesty. And yes, I do believe you spoke with him- Prater was obviously siding with the east on this whole issue. You guys have enjoyed quite a few favors from the company as well since their decisions are based soley on numbers alone and you guys definitely have the majority. Heck, even your legal strategy rests entirely on your numerical advantage (unfortunately for you the law is not written for the enjoyment of a majority). This west vs. east story is definitely a David vs. Goliath. Regardless of what your personal ambitions are, in the end you cannot usurp contract law because you have a few more people.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

How wrong can one person be? I guess we'll find out, hopefully soon. The terminations for nonpayment of fees will commence in early August.

Enjoy your summer.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Ok, that is what I thought- you confused Prater's personal opinion with ALPA's official position. Thanks for your honesty. And yes, I do believe you spoke with him- Prater was obviously siding with the east on this whole issue. You guys have enjoyed quite a few favors from the company as well since their decisions are based soley on numbers alone and you guys definitely have the majority. Heck, even your legal strategy rests entirely on your numerical advantage (unfortunately for you the law is not written for the enjoyment of a majority). This west vs. east story is definitely a David vs. Goliath. Regardless of what your personal ambitions are, in the end you cannot usurp contract law because you have a few more people.

Your welcome on the honesty part. I post what I believe and what I believe to be true. Sometimes I think you just don't want to see it, or think I have another agenda. I won't research it for you but somewhere back in Aug/Sep time frame (I think) I said I didn't care what happened to Nic so long as ALPA is gone. Well, I have changed somewhat, I do care for my fellow pilots and how Nic has or will effect them. Just so long as ALPA stays gone.

I thought we were talking about hints, that if heeded could have diffused the whole issue for some people. So if you want to change the discussion on contracts and the previous CB agent, that works for me also. But lets not rehash again old ground. If you have something new to bring up, lets talk. You and I have a very different view on things and will seem to always have differing opinions.

Maybe it was Praters personal opinion. Spoken in a public forum. I didn't see his minions try to correct him. Heck even his own attorney who was present didn't try. But when one speaks on behalf of the association it carries the weight of the association. Did he screw up trying to placate us? IMO yes. And it cost ALPA the property. Personally, I didn't care, ...........just so long as you, and they kept screwing up only guaranteed our election victory. Like now, your non participation will only guarantee all we have said.

Finally, I also posted that if events occur that would arise to unify this group, I would be amenable to even voting for a west type who could lead this union. I believe in trying to get the best of the group involved. But alas, sigh, that is not going to happen in the near future. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

How wrong can one person be? I guess we'll find out, hopefully soon. The terminations for nonpayment of fees will commence in early August.

Hope those guys are saving their money. That is going to be a lot of back dues to make up. I may be wrong, but, payment plans like ALPA's are not going to be an option.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Excerpts from the mighty u-turn. FYI:

This is one U-Turn we really wish we didn’t have to put out, but the furloughs are coming.

..............................

This is what we get for replacing a pro-pilot C-62 with a pro-company C-62. This is the same group that wanted a cost neutral contract, giving up safety with 8 hours rest, meaning lower staffing.

Now our former MEC Officers are running AWAPPA and The Army of Leonidas. Why would anybody follow them? But this pilot group thought that putting in pro-company C-62 Reps in office would give them a different outcome. Insanity is “doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result.â€

We now face 175 furloughs this year and maybe more in 2009. AWAPPA just complains about overstaffed management and how Doug Parker runs the company. We’re not saying that AWAPPA doesn’t have some good points, but the company isn’t listening. They aren’t paying any attention to AWAPPA since it doesn’t legally represent us.

What does AWAPPA tell the pilot group to do? Nothing, except harass the new union. Now pilots are getting sued. AWAPPA is leaving them out in the cold with no legal help, protecting its own officers but not those who did their dirty work. U-Turn broke that news last week. No one believed us. We got emails saying we we’re telling the truth, but here’s the proof. One AWAPPA supporter is begging for contributions on the Internet (cactusboy53 @ forums.flightinfo) for the AWA PILOTS LEGAL EXPENSE TRUST to help pay for the lawsuits. AWAPPA turned its back on its supporters, this is what “cactusboy53†posted:

As one of the named defendants targeted by USAPA, I have had to organize the financial defense of those not represented by AWAPPA…we, the individual defendants must establish our own defense team and the cost may be high financially. The ten of us, “The Cactus 10â€, who are not on the AWAPPA Board of Directors need your help!

What can we do now? U-Turn says get your head out of your sand and get involved................ If everyone is intimidated by AWAPPA, we will have no voice at all. If USAPA gets no input from the West, then they can claim they never heard our demands. They can win a DFR lawsuit by saying we refused to be represented.

Make no mistake. U-Turn still believes in the NIC. If it is thrown out, we can file a DFR. It’s tough to win a DFR, but we can still file. But it’s a waste of time and money if we aren’t represented and if USAPA doesn’t know our position. If we have no reps, we have no way or addressing our grievances under the NMB and the LMRDA. If we refuse to participate, we will all lose. Wake up, guys! We need a voice. Until we have one rep, we have no voice and USAPA has every right to ignore us.

U-Turn has been trying to get the block hour and the aircraft number information regarding the TA minimums. Maybe those on the West who have them could forward the numbers to USAPA anonymously if they really want to help us. We have no sources in USAPA. None of us have joined, but as things develop we will try to keep you informed. If you refuse to go to their web site, U-Turn will. USAPA’s “members only†site is still accessible.........

U-Turn

Prophetic advice.

 

[EastUS]

Excerpts from the mighty u-turn. FYI:

What does AWAPPA tell the pilot group to do? Nothing, except harass the new union. Now pilots are getting sued. AWAPPA is leaving them out in the cold with no legal help, protecting its own officers but not those who did their dirty work.

Now our former MEC Officers are running AWAPPA and The Army of Leonidas. Why would anybody follow them?

:blink: That does bear at least some slight consideration,...one might think...or perhaps NOT ever "think", as the case may be.

 

[Flyz4food]

Hope those guys are saving their money. That is going to be a lot of back dues to make up. I may be wrong, but, payment plans like ALPA's are not going to be an option.

When you say "those guys", I assume you mean the non paying East guys as well. I also assume that your frothing at the mouth hoping for terminations applies to your fellow pilots as well. I would hate to think the "for all Airways pilots" only applies when the time is right.