US Pilot Labor Thread

[GorgeousGeorge]

A USAPA supporter accusing someone else of sleaze. Now that's rich.

🙄 Coming from an ALPA supporter and entertaining the thought of being qualified to speak on moral integrity, now that is rich. Of course having a rectal orifice qualifies you like anyone else to have an opinion.

 

[EastUS]

The west seems to be determined to distance themselves from the union, yet ask repeatedy where the expected results are (contract...etc..)
I absolutely don't get that. I'm trying to be as empathetic and open-minded as possible, but that makes no sense...at all.
From what I read, it's generally dripping with smug sarcasm (regarding the contract)...so whats the point? Those of you who feel that way are not entitled to nag about a contract...

My feeling is that such postings aren't really about any concerns over a future contract, but rather just jabs at the Union overall, coupled with the long since, well established, inane gloating over currently enjoying higher pay/etc.....while amazingly, not realizing that such makes them even yet more disposable in management's view during these turbulent times. There appears to be some mental disconnect between 'You can live on LOA93 forever!!" and...ummm...how come more of us are getting furloughed out here?. Speculation on my part, but, as things stand; I'd think that would be the trend for any future reductions as well. I could be wrong.

 

[nostradamus]

So to my earlier question of:

"If the pendulum swings back again in favor of the west (perhaps as the result of a lawsuit, judicial ruling or management actions), should the west be willing to compromise if the east hadn't been inclined earlier?"

I'll just put you down as voting NO. That whatever side feels it has the upperhand, should proceed in damaging the lives of the others in as vindictive manner as possible. Thank you for your time.

Your sorry america west group thought they had the upper hand and not only was not inclined to compromise, they were arrogant about it.

"lawsuit, judicial ruling or management actions", The chance of these will be explained below.

Your leaders were asked to compromise, click here for someone to blame.

 

[cactus757]

What I find amazing after lurking on these boards for years........
is that the same few people on this site have nothing but anti-East or anti-West sentiment.

Granted, we as a pilot group have major problems, but they CAN be worked out! The most used tactic in labor management is DIVIDE AND CONQUER.......and we are doing it to ourselves. Maybe Bradford and clan can see that they NEED the West, and we will join and participate. So far all we have seen from USAPA is pay dues or be fired......and DOH blah blah blah.

There are ways to help fix this......but it needs to start from the top of USAPA, then on down. How about electing new officers with votes from ALL members......not just the East. Picture a West president with reps from ALL of USAPA bases.

A good start would be USAPA coming to PHX and LAS and holding a meeting, electing a few reps.........you know, like most unions. There are applications from the west that have not yet been approved, and west pilots that have volunteered to be reps.

It has to start somewhere. Or do we just sue each other and make law firms rich at our expense?

Cooler heads can prevail.......

 

[nostradamus]

A good start would be USAPA coming to PHX and LAS and holding a meeting, electing a few reps.........you know, like most unions. There are applications from the west that have not yet been approved, and west pilots that have volunteered to be reps.

It has to start somewhere. Or do we just sue each other and make law firms rich at our expense?

Cooler heads can prevail.......

First you have to join USAPA. After your done adjusting the halo over your head write out a check for dues.

What is amazing, every one of these videos america west pilots produced and posted on you tube. You actually thought this made you look good.

USAPA was already in PHX talking to your "professionals", you swore never to cooperate.

USAPA Phoenix vist, click here

 

[SegmentKing]

good post.

 

[EastUS]

........and DOH blah blah blah.

There are ways to help fix this......but it needs to start from the top of USAPA, then on down. How about electing new officers with votes from ALL members......not just the East. Picture a West president with reps from ALL of USAPA bases.

A good start would be USAPA coming to PHX and LAS and holding a meeting, electing a few reps.........you know, like most unions. There are applications from the west that have not yet been approved, and west pilots that have volunteered to be reps.

It has to start somewhere. Or do we just sue each other and make law firms rich at our expense?

Cooler heads can prevail.......

If I'm getting this right then, for "cooler heads" to prevail, the first requirement's to instantly drop "DOH blah blah blah" from the Union's charter, immediately elect a west-minority president, and do so from a west electorate that refuses to even become one, by even joining the Union? Please..at least be serious...I thought we were speaking of cooler heads here.

"It has to start somewhere." On that we fully agree, but your terms are hardly any starter.....

Frankly, as inconvenient and unpleasant for us all that it currently is..."that they NEED the West" hasn't proven out at all well thus far, at any level, on any issue. I'd suggest some serious considerations for re-evaluation of your own positions for starters.

 

[electricjet98]

Your sorry america west group thought they had the upper hand and not only was not inclined to compromise, they were arrogant about it.

"lawsuit, judicial ruling or management actions", The chance of these will be explained below.

Your leaders were asked to compromise, click here for someone to blame.

That's okay, Nos. I justed wanted your thoughts as to what our reply should be if we ever find ourselves with the "shoe on the other foot".

 

[FL430]

As an east pilot I am always hearing from the west to enjoy LOA 93. Well just so you know in my case I do not have a problem with it. In fact if it keeps both sides separate then that is fine by me. I have another business and am financially secure - and not because of the airline that I work for. There has been way too much instability and uncertainty in this industry and therefore years ago I planned a course of action that would insulate me from just this kind of scenario. A lot of my east brothers have done the same thing. So for many of us LOA 93 is no big deal. Many of us realize that many businesses are cyclical, especially the airlines and have made provisions to weather the storms.

That being said we currently find Parker saying he wants a joint contract - I dont believe it. We will be living under our current individual contracts for a very long time. Parker saves the money and as a bonus has us all at each others throats. In that respect he shifts the blame from the company to blaming the east and west for the delay in a new contract. Even if we do come up with numbers that are palatable for Parker he can continually draw this out by saying " our corporate attorneys are still reviewing this NIC - DOH thing with the two groups on legal grounds so there will be some delay" and delay this into almost infinity. After all he is saving 122 mill a year just to get to parity.

In the meantime, east continues to grow - from new A330 deliveries- Tel Aviv etc., attrition, EMB 190's and the west will continue to shrink. Right now I could upgrade to the A320 0r 737 as I have done three times before but I am comfortable on the A330 for now. When I can hold a block on the narrowbodies again I may bid them again ( and that will be my new raise) and should happen in less than a year - so I can wait. Another benefit is my junior brothers will not see as many furloughs on the east as the west.

Now I do not blame any of you westies for this mess we are in - you guys are just pilots like us. I do blame George Nicoli and ALPA as it is evident from the current stalemate that we find ourselves. Why couldnt ALPA have selected a new arbitrator and done this over again citing the MDA pilots were disadvantaged and seeing what a different arbitrator would come up with. I guess because ALPA did not want to admit they were wrong. I do not know what the answer is at this point Just looking for a mutual solution. Fire away though if you want.....

 

[machtuck]

well, I just watched the video(s) of the PHX visit...

I think the west pilots made their position clear.

 

[nostradamus]

That's okay, Nos. I justed wanted your thoughts as to what our reply should be if we ever find ourselves with the "shoe on the other foot".

Your group already had the shoe on their foot once and spoke many times with it on. Compromise was not in your vocabulary.

 

[EastUS]

Your group already had the shoe on their foot once and spoke many times with it on. Compromise was not in your vocabulary.

Indeed, just a few west quotes from the ocean of such = "Booyooshaka!"..."the west's Righteous Positon"...."Final and Binding"..."It's OVER...get used to it"....."Ho Ho Ho! St. Nic is coming to town!"..."I want the captain seat..and most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it". Right up until the election, after which it's been "All Out Warfare"..abuse of east jumpseaters of course....not to mention "and we hate you guys" as a loudly voiced position at every opportunity. Truly, a difficult bunch to have much honest empathy for in any way........But here we all are nonetheless.

 

[N924PS]

As an east pilot I am always hearing from the west to enjoy LOA 93. Well just so you know in my case I do not have a problem with it. In fact if it keeps both sides separate then that is fine by me. I have another business and am financially secure - and not because of the airline that I work for. There has been way too much instability and uncertainty in this industry and therefore years ago I planned a course of action that would insulate me from just this kind of scenario. A lot of my east brothers have done the same thing. So for many of us LOA 93 is no big deal. Many of us realize that many businesses are cyclical, especially the airlines and have made provisions to weather the storms.

I'm glad you are able to weather the latest financial storm and agree with your assessment that a new contract is a long time coming.

But, unlike you, I and many others are growing increasingly unhappy living under LOA 93. Many of us are frustrated working for less than we made 15 years ago with no likelihood of a raise on the horizon. All the while watching our West brothers and sisters do the same job for more pay and vacation.

I would say you are atypical of the East pilot group at large. With little free time left flying 85-90 hours 15-20 days per month, another business would be impossible for most. Most, if not all the F/O's I know are dipping into their reserves each month just to meet their monthly obligations. As their children get older, college tuition is taking a big bite out of their income every month, not to mention the cost of living has increased since LOA93 was implemented.

LOA93 is a big deal, at least for the people that don't have the seniority to fly the widebodies across the Atlantic.

 

[machtuck]

I never watched the west video's before....I have to say I'm a little shocked.
I was especially interested to hear them saying things like:

"...now you want to put up a fence and keep us all locked in over here?..."

OK, so that tells me that even with seat protections and safeguards against the east guys bidding in on top of them...that was or is not acceptable.

And obviously, a lot of ofjections to straight DOH...

that only leaves one other scenario....

all the quotes that EastUS brings up all the time...

unless someone who was there can explain it to me, 'cause thats what I heard...

 

[EastUS]

LOA93 is a big deal, at least for the people that don't have the seniority to fly the widebodies across the Atlantic.

I agree that it's an injustice and must be taken care of when possible. I see no possible reason to assume that the west contingent will be of even any slight use in this effort though, regardless of any even imagined concessions towards them, based upon all history to date.