US Pilot Labor Thread

[ussnark]

I agree that it's an injustice and must be taken care of when possible. I see no possible reason to assume that the west contingent will be of even any slight use in this effort though, regardless of any even imagined concessions towards them, based upon all history to date.

Getting a contract will alleviate most of the animosity. The longer the pilots wait, the smaller will be the west pilot contingent.

Once the west pilots see that DOH with conditions and restrictions will make no difference to their career progression as they were, pre-nic, I believe the US pilots will be able to put this all behind them. Dragging this out, Parker risks a possible real problem with "his boys", as they are whittled down through west downsizing. From their POV, yelling "live with LOA93" at the east pilots will get awful quiet as the westies begin to take major furlough hits.

At least USAPA will provide a potentially better environment for returning westies, as opposed to ALPA.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

...whittled down through west downsizing.

Correct me if I am wrong but aren't we experiencing some downsizing of our own.

September blocks sure don't look as good as July's did.

 

[N924PS]

Getting a contract will alleviate most of the animosity. The longer the pilots wait, the smaller will be the west pilot contingent.

Once the west pilots see that DOH with conditions and restrictions will make no difference to their career progression as they were, pre-nic, I believe the US pilots will be able to put this all behind them. Dragging this out, Parker risks a possible real problem with "his boys", as they are whittled down through west downsizing. From their POV, yelling "live with LOA93" at the east pilots will get awful quiet as the westies begin to take major furlough hits.

At least USAPA will provide a potentially better environment for returning westies, as opposed to ALPA.

I doubt that a new contract will assuage the animosity of the West pilots.

Much like mergers past, Capital-UAL and Northwest-Republic, which both had seniority list integration issues, the West pilots will always perceive they had a new union forced on them solely to mitigate the Nicolau Award. There was animosity for decades at both carriers.

Many West pilots would disagree that DOH with conditions and restrictions makes no difference to their pre-Nic career progression. I don't think you will ever convince certain West pilots who were close to upgrading before the merger that their career progression is unchanged.

Your being a bit presumptuous to think the West will take the brunt of additional furloughs, if any occur. While the current furlough is weighted more to the West, no one really knows what will happen next. What if they decide to eliminate some or all the East B737's? Or if they decide to replace the B767 fleet with A330's without adding additional hulls? Hey, anything can happen. And not just to the West.

I'm hoping USAPA can negotiate a better environment for ALL USAirways pilots. Based on what I've read regarding Section 25(Scheduling), they have some great ideas and I hope they can achieve them in negotiations.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Why couldnt ALPA have selected a new arbitrator and done this over again citing the MDA pilots were disadvantaged and seeing what a different arbitrator would come up with.

Nicolau was fully aware of the plight of the MDA pilots regardless of which list he was given. There was no grounds for a do-over. The East not liking the result does not constitute sufficient grounds.

I guess because ALPA did not want to admit they were wrong.

Who do you think was making the decisions in Herndon? ALPA isn't a dictatorship and if it was Prater would surely have forced AWA to make concessions. The ALPA EC and EB are representative of all the ALPA pilot groups. I don't recall hearing any protests or calls for a do-over. You Easties are the only ones who feel the process was unfair. Here's a radical thought for you: Nicolau ruled fairly and whether you agree or not is immaterial.

I do not know what the answer is at this point Just looking for a mutual solution. Fire away though if you want.....

What's the normal procedure for settling inter-union disputes? Binding Arbitration. Heck, arbitration is even in the USAPA C&BLs. Seems the Easties are all for binding arbitration -- except when you don't get what you want. How can there be a mutual solution when one side uses their tyranny of the majority?

 

[nostradamus]

exb717 quote;

"Who do you think was making the decisions in Herndon? ALPA isn't a dictatorship and if it was Prater would surely have forced AWA to make concessions. The ALPA EC and EB are representative of all the ALPA pilot groups. "
[/quote]

Quotes from one of your own america west pilots.

"ALPA National pushed the other West Reps and the MEC officers hard to cut the deal and we ended up with no furlough protection in the TA."

"ALPA National and the MEC officers just wanted an agreement that protected the merger. Our Merger Attorney butted in with an August 29, 2005 email telling the MEC (not the Reps) that we needed an agreement more than the East did."

"Don't blame the East for that one. Their MEC encouraged us to enter Section 6 with a resolution. But ALPA said NO and our MEC bought off on it."

U turn speaks out on the US Airways (west) furloughs.

 

[ussnark]

Your being a bit presumptuous to think the West will take the brunt of additional furloughs, if any occur.

I am just following the money. The yields in the west are pretty bad compared to the yields out east. Assuming a rational management, (yeah, I know) shucking "west routes" would be more efficient than losing east flying.

 

[EastUS]

You Easties are the only ones who feel the process was unfair. .

The only ones within the east-west debacle, yes..but your views are hardly universal. Regardless of that: Said unfairness, along with deep rooted disgust for Alpo, seems sufficient to have gotten us to where we are now. What's your possible point?

exB717Flyer"Here's a radical thought for you: Nicolau ruled fairly and whether you agree or not is immaterial" Here's a radical thought for you = That's merely your opinion, and is immaterial to the circumstances at hand. I'd note that whether the east agrees or not has proven to be very much material...whether you like it or not, or accept the truth of that or not.

 

[rjh]

So 3 years after the merger, pilots are still arguing amongst themselves? And they wonder why they don't have one contract yet??? Amazing.

 

[prechilill]

I am just following the money. The yields in the west are pretty bad compared to the yields out east. Assuming a rational management, (yeah, I know) shucking "west routes" would be more efficient than losing east flying.

And the costs in the east are much worse than they are in the west. So, do you ever wonder why your airline was twice bankrupt before Parker stepped in?

 

[nostradamus]

And the costs in the east are much worse than they are in the west. So, do you ever wonder why your airline was twice bankrupt before Parker stepped in?

You guys having trouble with your forward torpedo tube. This message from your leaders below is almost four months old. Boy they saw you coming. Dues money, legal bills due, must be tough.

From the army of legalitis, May 7, 2008


"Dear AWA Pilots,


We know from a public perspective that things have been quiet on Leonidas LLC front for the last week. Please be advised that does not indicate a lack of activity. Leonidas LLC is by design a legal campaign only- one designed to protect and advance AWA pilots. We have our first stage strategy in place and are ready to proceed, but we must also consider the ramifications of a possible new merger with United before we do.


To use a naval metaphor, we have torpedoes on target, tubes flooded and finger on the “fireâ€￾ button- but a new vessel just arrived in our unfriendly waters that we need to first identify as a friend, foe, or neither before we launch our attack.


On different note, your much needed contributions continue to arrive daily, for which we, and all AWA pilots can be grateful. Furthermore, we remain in regular contact with our friends at AWAPPA and continue to work together at this critical time.


Please continue to support our endeavor financially and remember to check in regularly for updated information as the situation evolves. Visit this link to contribute via PayPal, or fill out this form and send your contribution to: "


Leonidas LLC

2650 FM 407, Ste. 145-147

Bartonville, TX 76226


Thanks,


The Leonidas LLC Board of Directors

 

[tazz]

And the costs in the east are much worse than they are in the west. So, do you ever wonder why your airline was twice bankrupt before Parker stepped in?

Prechill, get a clue: Parker didn't step in and buy US Airways. The highly profitable east coast operation stepped in and saved the west with its nasty low yields. If it weren't for the highly successful east operation we would all be unemployed right now. The east boys are justified in drooling over west furloughs because they were just waiting for that pitiful carrier AWA to hit the skids anyway.

Shut up and pay your dues and be a "good union pilot" until your furlough notice comes in the mail. You will never have enough brain cells or DOH to match the superiority of the east. 🙂

 

[EastUS]

I never watched the west video's before....I have to say I'm a little shocked.
I was especially interested to hear them saying things like:

"...now you want to put up a fence and keep us all locked in over here?..."

OK, so that tells me that even with seat protections and safeguards against the east guys bidding in on top of them...that was or is not acceptable.
And obviously, a lot of ofjections to straight DOH...
that only leaves one other scenario....
all the quotes that EastUS brings up all the time...
unless someone who was there can explain it to me, 'cause thats what I heard...

You aren't at all in any minority as to having been a little shocked. Those videos served as serious eye openers for a great many.

"OK, so that tells me that even with seat protections and safeguards against the east guys bidding in on top of them...that was or is not acceptable.
And obviously, a lot of ofjections to straight DOH...
that only leaves one other scenario...." = Yes sir, and that's been the major problem all along......

 

[tazz]

You guys having trouble with your forward torpedo tube. This message from your leaders below is almost four months old. Boy they saw you coming. Dues money, legal bills due, must be tough.

From the army of legalitis, May 7, 2008


"Dear AWA Pilots,


We know from a public perspective that things have been quiet on Leonidas LLC front for the last week. Please be advised that does not indicate a lack of activity. Leonidas LLC is by design a legal campaign only- one designed to protect and advance AWA pilots. We have our first stage strategy in place and are ready to proceed, but we must also consider the ramifications of a possible new merger with United before we do.


To use a naval metaphor, we have torpedoes on target, tubes flooded and finger on the “fireâ€￾ button- but a new vessel just arrived in our unfriendly waters that we need to first identify as a friend, foe, or neither before we launch our attack.


On different note, your much needed contributions continue to arrive daily, for which we, and all AWA pilots can be grateful. Furthermore, we remain in regular contact with our friends at AWAPPA and continue to work together at this critical time.


Please continue to support our endeavor financially and remember to check in regularly for updated information as the situation evolves. Visit this link to contribute via PayPal, or fill out this form and send your contribution to: "


Leonidas LLC

2650 FM 407, Ste. 145-147

Bartonville, TX 76226


Thanks,


The Leonidas LLC Board of Directors

What's your point?

 

[EastUS]

The east boys are justified in drooling over west furloughs ....

Show me where anyone out here is "drooling over west furloughs".... Unbelievable. That sounds more like a clear projection of your own thought processes to me. Do you think it's a source of joy to see any people being put through such a nightmare? Grow up. We've seen this before on a scale you can't even imagine, and are again seeing this miserable scenario out east as well. Frankly; the only "drooling" I've yet seen comes entirely from your bunch....and I'll spare the abundant quotes this time, as furloughs are nothing to make light of.

I won't even ask just how much deep empathy and concern you have for your "fellow pilots" out east facing furloughs as well.......

 

[ussnark]

And the costs in the east are much worse than they are in the west. So, do you ever wonder why your airline was twice bankrupt before Parker stepped in?

1. It seems you have bought the propaganda that the only reason a corporation seeks bankruptcy protection is that their finances are out of control. If you are going to post about such, I am going to suggest that you educate yourself about such. It should be obvious that US went to the bankruptcy court at least once to get rid of the east retirement when the judge said, no, use the negotiating process and not the courts, to do so, a direct slap at management. Unfortunately, ALPA did not understand what happened and bought into the blackmail.

2. Parker did not "step in". While he may have a commanding presence in detention facilities, I would characterize his operational style as "remote", as in, detached. The board appointed him to caretake the combined carrier until a merger could be consummated, likely figuring he could do less additional damage to a wreck than anywhere else.

You also could educate yourself as to corporate balance sheets, how money can be hidden, even, placed off sheet temporarily. I commend Tempe for taking deferred profits to an ultra-high accounting level and even to squandering profits on silly projects like QIK and possibly BOB. Without acknowledging their agenda(s), relying on ALPA to fill in the canyons of your ignorance is a fools path.