US Pilot Labor Thread

[machtuck]

Quite, it is all the doing of those evil westies. The east has been nothing but open and forthcoming.

True we felt that bringing in two thousand furloughees as senior to working pilots, and thus exchanging fortunes for misfortunes, was not fair and equitable. How naive of us.

Come on, here...this is as far apart as discussing Jesus with a person of Jewish faith...

you either believe in it or not.....clearly, both sides disagree.

The fact of the matter is this: most or all other groups have been finished with this for years now..

I was in PSP when the AFA deal was settled....guess how long that took?

about 5 minutes.

The west AFA filed a motion to alter straight DOH at AFA...

denied.

done.

Now, I get that is not the case now with the pilots...but it isn't going to be as easy as you may think to fix.

 

[EastUS]

Man are you ever in the wrong place.

It's all about the emoticons here baby!

Hummmm...and here I'd thought that in your neck of the desert, that "It's ALL about MEE!" 😉

 

[Tiger 1050]

Well, to tell you the truth, I'd just as soon have a meaningful discussion with "able" if I can.

This may be a "Nic sell"...or not. If so, it won't work on me, and maybe not the company, either.

Regardless, I'd like to have a respectful, and cordial exchange with any west guy that will do so...

How the %#* else are we EVER going to get past this?

Lets talk.
You may call the BS flag on me whenever you want...and I you...simple.

So far, I've enjoyed hearing what "Able" had to say...

I think most feel the way you do... Your attempt to facilitate fruitful discussion is admirable... Too bad we don't see more of it.

 

[machtuck]

Ouch...then that's one arbitration (190 placement) that I'm glad we "lost".

Yep...but I guarantee it's headed your way....

think about it....from Parker's perspective...the West voted to keep it on the property as mainline...(good call, IMO)...therefore, it's just a matter of time before you get some...(as the 300/400's go away)

 

[machtuck]

I think most feel the way you do... Your attempt to facilitate fruitful discussion is admirable... Too bad we don't see more of it.

well....why don't we try...

I promise, whenever (if ever) I get too pissed..I'll just sign off...no attacks.

 

[ableoneable]

Seriously, you asked how we are going to get past this.

The first issue is; Will USAirways survive?

My take; Iffy.

Barring oil suddenly falling to $60/bbl I think, and most others do as well, that somebody is going to go tango uniform.

Right now it looks like a close race between US and UAL.

Both of us have positives and negatives.

Some scoff at Parker and call him an idiot but even the analysts listen to Tilton speak and come away saying; "WTF was that yahoo talking about?"

There are very few who don't think that Glenn Tilton is at least a little "challenged."

On the plus side they could still sell off the Pacific system that they bought from PanAM.

If they ever offer to sell it two or three carriers would mortgage the ranch to pay for it and it would give them some capital but let's review how that worked out for the last airline who sold those routes, PanAM. Not so good.

Parker appears to be trying and most importantly Wall St. still has a tremendous amount of faith in him. I can say this because Parker somehow talked these guys into buying a bunch of USAir stock. I am impressed.

If we get past the survival situation we then address the contract.

For the reasons I have spelled out earlier, I don't see what management really gains from a single CBA, especially if they have to fork over serious coin to get one.

Management always has quite a few tools in the box that enable them to drag out negotiations, if not forever than at least until the nearest convenient recession.

In this case they have a bigger toolbox than anyone has ever had. They have two separate groups who would not agree on what day of the week it is let alone walk lockstep to obtain a contract. Heck if management plays their cards right they may actually be able to get concessions out of the pilot group and all they might have to do is at long last wade into the seniority cesspool. They won't get too dirty though and in terms of real dollars it will cost them ZERO.

I for one would be looking into a management position.

 

[machtuck]

Hows this for easy....


I agree completely.

Seriously...I do.

So, as a 45+ year old guy with 10K hours andf 6 type ratings over 20 years....

what do I do now?

go to contract flying overseas?

what can either of us do...any of us do...?

seriously.

had a quick thought...and that is this: as long as Parker can generate revenue (good for him) and keep us at each others' throats...he wins...

no?

Lets talk about how to fix that....'cause I'm not ready to ship out to UAE yet...

 

[ableoneable]

Hows this for easy....


I agree completely.

Seriously...I do.

So, as a 45+ year old guy with 10K hours andf 6 type ratings over 20 years....

what do I do now?

go to contract flying overseas?

what can either of us do...any of us do...?

seriously.

Normally I would say keep the number for truckmasters handy but even the truckers are taking it in the shorts right now so that is not an option either.

The overseas hiring has started to slow. It's still going on but is not as strong as it was twelve or even six months ago.

The really smart/lucky guys have already found a good gig and have taken leaves. I looked but was unable to close a deal before the leave window closed.

There was a RyanAir sign up sheet in the chief pilot office. They are supposedly looking for direct entry CAs and FOs. One of our former ALPA officers said that these guys are bad to work for and wanted to know why I was signing up.

I told him that I had been up on the promenade deck and that they had the lifeboats uncovered and out on the davits.

Don't panic but don't buy the sportfisher and the suburban to tow it either.

 

[machtuck]

Yeah...thats what I thought.

(I may lose my house in a few months...)

For the record, Able, I've enjoyed it....

maybe we can continue to talk as adults....I'd like that.

 

[ableoneable]

Yeah...thats what I thought.

(I may lose my house in a few months...)

I hope you are able to find a way out of that mess.

maybe we can continue to talk as adults....I'd like that.

Generally, that kind of thing is frowned on around here. If you want to fit in I would suggest that you call me an idiot and wish me a "good day sir."

For some reason it is very important to address those whom you have disparaged as less than intelligent as 'sir'. I am not sure why but it appears to be a rule.

 

[machtuck]

I hope you are able to find a way out of that mess.



Generally, that kind of thing is frowned on around here. If you want to fit in I would suggest that you call me an idiot and wish me a "good day sir."

For some reason it is very important to address those whom you have disparaged as less than intelligent as 'sir'. I am not sure why but it appears to be a rule.

I never say sir unless I mean it as a matter of respect...you ARE an airline pilot, right...so am I...

I was raised in the south...it's just what I do...

You're not an idiot...and neither am I...

we both have a common problem....we should be able to discuss it without fighting.

 

[ableoneable]

I never say sir unless I mean it as a matter of respect...you ARE an airline pilot, right...so am I...

I was raised in the south...it's just what I do...

You're not an idiot...and neither am I...

we both have a common problem....we should be able to discuss it without fighting.

To slightly change a quote from Stripes;

"We all have one thing in common, we all believed the brochure and volunteered to become airline pilots, we're all morons."

Knowing what I know now I would never have chosen a "career" that puts my financial fate completely in the hands people whose idea of a long term investment is twenty four months.

C.R. Smith has left the building.

 

[machtuck]

Indeed.

 

[electricjet98]

I think most feel the way you do... Your attempt to facilitate fruitful discussion is admirable... Too bad we don't see more of it.

I agree, fully! A really nice change.


From my earlier post (which was actually a cut & paste from another website):

Dynamic Seniority List

A seniority list that is merged based on a straight ratio basis and then adjusted annually to reflect the attrition that has occured on each pilot's original list.

At least I didn't get hammered for it (I'm sure some just haven't taken the time or consumed the alcohol, yet) , but are there any thoughts out there along this line of compromise?

As I see it, if USAPA maintains their hardline it will be much easier for a judge to implement "The Nic". If meaningful compromise is made it will more likely be approved by any judge in future proceedings and even used in future mergers.

 

[machtuck]

I agree, fully! A really nice change.


From my earlier post (which was actually a cut & paste from another website):

Dynamic Seniority List

A seniority list that is merged based on a straight ratio basis and then adjusted annually to reflect the attrition that has occured on each pilot's original list.

At least I didn't get hammered for it (I'm sure some just haven't taken the time or consumed the alcohol, yet) , but are there any thoughts out there along this line of compromise?

As I see it, if USAPA maintains their hardline it will be much easier for a judge to implement "The Nic". If meaningful compromise is made it will more likely be approved by any judge in future proceedings and even used in future mergers.

Haven't read it yet...just reviewing with my wife our possibilities, and listening to her cry some more...I'm a step-dad to her two kids as well...
I'll get back to you...