US Pilot Labor Thread

[Piedmont1984]

I agree, fully! A really nice change.


From my earlier post (which was actually a cut & paste from another website):

Dynamic Seniority List

A seniority list that is merged based on a straight ratio basis and then adjusted annually to reflect the attrition that has occured on each pilot's original list.

At least I didn't get hammered for it (I'm sure some just haven't taken the time or consumed the alcohol, yet) , but are there any thoughts out there along this line of compromise?

As I see it, if USAPA maintains their hardline it will be much easier for a judge to implement "The Nic". If meaningful compromise is made it will more likely be approved by any judge in future proceedings and even used in future mergers.

I think the idea has merit and should be pursued. But I'm afraid that at this stage the die has been cast.

 

[flynomore]

Progress! I think this idea was presented before without gaining any purchase....


http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php...st&p=557720

 

[767jetz]

Generally, that kind of thing is frowned on around here. If you want to fit in I would suggest that you call me an idiot and wish me a "good day sir."

For some reason it is very important to address those whom you have disparaged as less than intelligent as 'sir'. I am not sure why but it appears to be a rule.

I'm sorry, but I had to laugh at this because it's so true. 😉

I have enjoyed reading this exchange, since it lacks the usual rhetoric. Bravo!

 

[ussnark]

I'm sorry, but I had to laugh at this because it's so true. 😉

I have enjoyed reading this exchange, since it lacks the usual rhetoric. Bravo!

767jetz, sir.

 

[electricjet98]

Progress! I think this idea was presented before without gaining any purchase....


http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php...st&p=557720

I hadn't seen your earlier post, but it seems like we are on the same track. The unfortunate truth is that it (or any compromise) will remain on a side-track until the "authorities" turn away from a winner-take-all mentality to one of true leadership for all pilots.

 

[nostradamus]

I'm sorry, but I had to laugh at this because it's so true. 😉

I have enjoyed reading this exchange, since it lacks the usual rhetoric. Bravo!

My opinion, above poster is an alpa cheerleader. 767jetz was on this message board defending the rights of the former america west pilots until an announcement was made about a merger with 767's airline, united, that never occurred. Check 767's history of posts, she defended awa pilots until a merger with her own company was announced, then her morals suddenly followed her pocket book.

Make no mistake about it, there is no possibility of congeniality, in my opinion, between these two pilot groups.

One pilot group has to go, they will never be able to fly safely together. The company knows this. The group that will be forced to leave has not been decided by management yet, the plans are in the making. Its a toss up, but a deal is certainly in the making. Get your ducks in a row.

The messanger.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

My opinion, above poster is an alpa cheerleader. 767jetz was on this message board defending the rights of the former america west pilots until an announcement was made about a merger with 767's airline, united, that never occurred. Check 767's history of posts, she defended awa pilots until a merger with her own company was announced, then her morals suddenly followed her pocket book.

Make no mistake about it, there is no possibility of congeniality, in my opinion, between these two pilot groups.

One pilot group has to go, they will never be able to fly safely together. The company knows this. The group that will be forced to leave has not been decided by management yet, the plans are in the making. Its a toss up, but a deal is certainly in the making. Get your ducks in a row.

The messanger.

How would/could they accomplish this? I don't see how.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

oops!

 

[prechilill]

I hadn't seen your earlier post, but it seems like we are on the same track. The unfortunate truth is that it (or any compromise) will remain on a side-track until the "authorities" turn away from a winner-take-all mentality to one of true leadership for all pilots.

Very well said. Attrition should have been addressed in any agreement, unfortunately that was never propositioned from the east. They have been DOH since the beginning of the merger and never budged.

 

[jetjok1]

OK, I missed that point. Well, yes, he can use that.....as well as several other stalls to grind the wheels to a stop.

Honestly?

He's in a pickle, I think...if he takes USAPA list with the new contract, he faces the probable repurcussions from the west who get pissed...adding to the overall 'disunity" he says he wants.

If he stalls claiming the list is not OK, the union suits become pissed...and so it goes.

I think the driver that determines the pace is any potential merger...

None in the near future?

stall stall stall

Merger potential?

slap a deal together quick.

Parker will triple his nestegg in any merger...like they all do.

Parker has "indicated" in a crew news, that leaving ops as-is is fine...the remaining "synergy savings" are small...

I find that hard to believe, if I'm on the west coast, and a west plane is available to cover a broken east plane....NO CAN DO...
and likewise for you guys when your out East.

That has to be expensive.

I just don't think he cares about the seniority list as much as you give him credit for....certainly not as the last stumbling block to a contract.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see it in his behavior/track record, at all.

Ah, yes- "synergy savings". IMHO that is where we made our mistake. the transition agreement has been bastardized. Parker and Co. has been able to use the cross utilization of route flying to the point that the "broken plane" is a small nuisance but not the end of the world. He's gained a lot from that which is part of the synergy he needed in the beginning of this mess.

 

[EastUS]

Very well said. Attrition should have been addressed in any agreement, unfortunately that was never propositioned from the east. They have been DOH since the beginning of the merger and never budged.

It's all entirely the fault of the east= Understood. Offering length of service and fences at Wye River doesn't count in the least, nor does DOH with fences at any time. How utterly insane it would be to have simply protected either/both sides from predatory invasions from the other, and allowed each group to retain any/all gains from their respective attrition. Understood again...and this from "Ho Ho Ho! St Nic is coming to town" herself. Too "funny" for words.

Any constructive thoughts on how best to proceed from here? It seems that the lines have been so firmly entrenched that there's little room to even breathe the word compromise anymore. I wish things had gone much, much differently from the beginning. I'm just one vote, but I'm open to any/all suggestions.

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Recenty some posters here spewed their usual unwarranted castigations regarding my choices of flying the aircraft by the book. "Justification" provided had to do with the MAD airport and its "Space Shuttle" runway - "longest runway in Europe. What can go wrong there? I don't need to follow instructions during an emergency," they wrote.

Well, something has gone very wrong there: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle4573696.ece

My prayers go out to all who have suffered from this tradgedy.

 

[EastUS]

I don't need to follow instructions during an emergency," they wrote.

Really!???..Exactly where did "they wrote" any such BS supposedly occur?...and shouldn't you be off in your "gray jet", dodging triple A somewhere over Fantasyland, saving "hundreds of troops on the ground who maybe didn't get killed because myself.." in some claimed,...but entirely imaginary combat tour filled with self-ascribed "heroics".... that you never even came close to ever experiencing? "INTEGRITY MATTERS" Ummm....Sure, and a finer proponent for that could never be found anywhere.

As far as your additional fantasies about "regarding my choices of flying the aircraft by the book."..no where "in the book" does it mandate moronically jamming on max manual braking for a reduced flap landing, followed by taxiing to the gate "before the fuse plugs melt", simply due to having a sorry and inadequate excuse for any understanding at all of performance data and such "minor" subtleties as hot brakes/etc.

 

[dariencc]

Recenty some posters here spewed their usual unwarranted castigations regarding my choices of flying the aircraft by the book. "Justification" provided had to do with the MAD airport and its "Space Shuttle" runway - "longest runway in Europe. What can go wrong there? I don't need to follow instructions during an emergency," they wrote.

Well, something has gone very wrong there: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle4573696.ece

My prayers go out to all who have suffered from this tradgedy.

Just when you thought it couldn't get any weirder. The combat hero's first thought, upon reading of the tragic loss of life in Spain, was "how can I spin this into a self justifying post on US Aviation.com?"


Earth to war hero: the circumstances of the Spanair accident are quite different from your no flap landing goofiness.

Earth to war hero II: as has been explained to you multiple times, the performance charts you reference as being based on max manual braking are also predicated on no reverse thrust. This does not make either one a "procedure." Please try to wrap your mind around the idea.

Earth to war hero III: have you ever considered the possibility that you are simply in the wrong line of work?


On behalf of the victims, thanks for your prayers.

 

[EastUS]

Just when you thought it couldn't get any weirder.

No joke sir.......